Why does cap hate mutants so much?

Why does cap hate mutants so much?

He likes Namor

Becuase Logan doesn't know what the fuck he's talking about as usual.

He also hates France and loves Hitler.

Probably the same reason hal jordan doesn't like black people

This, Logan is being an enraged manlet per usual. Also isn't this Secret Wars where all the heroes were acting dumb as shit?

at that time namor was not a "mutant mutant"

This right here is why I hate how retarded Marvel editors are. When Cap and other superheroes sit around when Sentinels hunt down mutant citizens in the US, it really makes them look like assholes.

Wolverine got stuck holding the jerkass ball in Secret Wars. When they made Captain America the leaders, someone had to object since Cap has no powers, and Wolverine was the one chosen to make that pitiful protest.

Also the X-men were the buttmonkies of Secret Wars. Shooter hated them.

Is Cap supposed to undermine the authority of the Government?
>Shooter hated them
Was he wrong to?

>Also the X-men were the buttmonkies of Secret Wars. Shooter hated them.
It was kinda jarring that Magneto was with the superheroes; something that was pointed out. Or how the X-Men decided to be their own group.

Did Shooter really hate them? Because he always made it a point during his tenure as EIC that the X-Men were part of the greater Marvel universe. The X-Men guest-starred in other books as well as non-X characters like Thor and Doctor Strange helped X-heroes out.

The worst part about this is, Cap has a somewhat similar mutation to Wolverine. But he's a mutant, not a Mutant, so it doesn't count.

>ywn lay waste to legions of nazis with your best friends

The only good mutant is a DEAD mutant!

When they are attacking US citizens who haven't committed a crime? Yes

He could at least openly proclaim that Sentinels are an affront to everything the United States stands for. He fought in WW2 to prevent people from being rounded up due to their genetics.

Back in the 70's and 80's, Cap could've made a press conference that extols the X-Men as superheroes like the Avengers and/or F4. Or testify in Congress about how immoral and illegal mutant registration and Sentinels are. Or even run for office to oppose shit like Operation Wideawake.

There's a lot of ways to retain the theme of X-Men as being hated by a world they protect while simultaneously having non-X characters not look the other way to anti-mutant shit like Purifiers and Friends of Humanity.

Mutants don't want to properly assimilate into American Culture, and they can't take a hint that actual oppressed minorities don't want them in their neighborhood. Captain America cannot stomach Magneto's over the top declaration of mutant superiority, or the X-Men's half backed measures to police their own kind because this kind of infighting among mutants undermines the point of them fighting for peaceful coexistence with American Society.

Anyone else remember that Avengers/JLA crossover where the Flash stumbled across an anti-mutant mob? Wally was completely shocked that people were going to crucify a neighborhood kid just because he transformed.

Why are Marvel Superheroes outside of Captain America terrible at reigning in the general public?

...

Mutants are one of the biggest plotholes of the Marvel multiverse. There's simply no good explanation why global genocide can occur in a world overflowing with superheroes that moralize in black/white terms. Captain America would do something. Spiderman would do something. The Fantastic Four and Doctor Strange and The Avengers and fucking everyone would do something because they're capeshit heroes and they don't stand for obvious injustices.

What about all the times the X-men sit around while Kang of Ultron is up to shit

>Mutants don't want to properly assimilate into American Culture, and they can't take a hint that actual oppressed minorities don't want them in their neighborhood.
Wait, what?!

>Captain America cannot stomach Magneto's over the top declaration of mutant superiority
I agree with this. Magneto really set back Mutant-Human relations when he went full retard in his debut as Magneto and the Brotherhood of Evil Mutants.

>or the X-Men's half backed measures to police their own kind because this kind of infighting among mutants undermines the point of them fighting for peaceful coexistence with American Society.
To be fair, Xavier thought that mutants policing their own would be the best bet since the government would just end up dissecting and studying captured mutant criminals for eugenics warfare.

But on the other hand, it really does make the X-Men look like a paramilitary cell with a training camp to outsiders. What he should've done was institute 2 groups: one team is the X-Men; a publicly visible group of appealing superheroes wearing flashy costumes to give mutants good PR. The other team is X-Force, the hidden face of X-Men which is basically their own black ops unit that targets anti-mutant extremists and programs. They do their stuff under the radar.

That's also bullshit. Marvel multiverse is bullshit.

This. Where were the mutants when Carnage rampaged through New York? Fucking Iron Fist showed up to help

No he doesn't. He fights crime and helps the general public. If he sees a Sentinel about to fry some muties he'll help
>Back in the 70's and 80's, Cap could've made a press conference
No he wouldn't. He refuses to be attached to any movement becuase he knows he has too much pull. Change has to come from the people themselves and not from people just doing it becuase Cap said so.

By that logic most if not all the superhero teams in the Marvel Universe would be guilty of not helping when other crisis happened.

>Wolverine got stuck holding the jerkass ball in Secret Wars

But that was Wolverine's token characteristic in the 80s, being hotheaded team asshole.

>Look okay, you're scared, but this is no way to act. If this kid's committed a crime, call the cops. If not, then what are you doing? Get a grip, before all this goes too--

This right here is how Marvel superheroes should admonish any anti-mutant crowd. Did someone get hurt when a kid's X-Gene go active? No? Then leave the kid alone.

What Cap, Reed, and Tony should've done way back is create a program for young mutants who've developed their powers. This has nothing to do with shadowy agencies and is wholly administered by established superheroes so that these kids can either have their powers under control or given training so that one day, if the Earth is under serious threat, these mutants can be called in as reserve Avengers. This way, the public can have some of their fears quieted down and there isn't association with the X-Men and their bad press.

Speaking as a long-time Marvel reader, most their 616 superheroes either have their own problems to deal with or they don't have as much appreciation for civics like Cap does. Marvel heroes generally just defeat the bad guys and that's it, they don't look at the bigger picture and try to help deal with social ills.

X-writers and X-fans make all sorts of excuses like "The X-Men were off-planet or in another dimension" or they argue that whatever happens in non-X books shouldn't have any impact in X-continuity. I remember debating with tons of turd X-fans about Operation: Galactic Storm and how it doesn't matter that Lilandra almost destroyed Earth and how Xavier should've reached out to her because it's not an X-book.

>Change has to come from the people themselves and not from people just doing it becuase Cap said so.
Nobody has to listen to what Cap says, but he could at least plead with the US public to not go down the path of 1930's Germany and submit to hate.

Fucking GENE FREAKS!

Lock'em all up and burn down the prison..

I honestly think that Modern Marvel forget that their heroes have their own problems to deal with and have them try to fight social ills. This might explain the recent trend in crossovers.

FLATSCAN.

Modern Marvel forgets a lot of shit. Basically anything written before 2000 isn't considered canon.

>most their 616 superheroes either have their own problems to deal with
Funny.

They have time to throw social parties every week and the majority of them don't even have jobs outside of heroing nowadays, but trying to save innocent people from genocide is "too much".

>He could at least openly proclaim that Sentinels are an affront to everything the United States stands for.
They aren't tho.
The ones programed to kill or capture any Mutant immediately upon detection are fucked up & wrong yes. But the ones who are basically just Robocop for threats regular police can't handle are perfectly fine. Someone has to deal with mutants like Sabertooth & such committing crimes & rampaging.

...

Why can't we ever get a Sentinel acting as Robocop in the X-Men stories? That sounds like a good idea for a comic.

Yeah, this is how they're written nowadays, but back in the 70's, 80's, and 90's, non-X superheroes lead their own lives.

Plus you have to keep in mind of the sliding timescale. 50+ years of Marvel stories are something like 10 years in 616 continuity. So all that shit went down in a compressed fashion and probably not enough to focus on mutant issues unless EIC dictates it.

Non-X heroes have tussled with Sabertooth in the past like Daredevil. I don't see why the Avengers or Spider-Man or Heroes for Hire and other NYC-based capes can't deal with mutant villains.

The big problem is that the Sentinel program DOES carry with it some merit. Humans have a right to defend themselves from powerful mutants who use their "gifts" for evil. Yeah Cyclops may have control and the moral fiber to not misuse it but there are thousands to millions of mutants at any given time so it's reasonable to think that some asshole with a penis laser may get it into his mind to start robbing banks and if they X-men are off fighting Magneto or some shit what are the cops gonna do?

Registration isn't condemnation.

>"you don' save us Mistuh Green Lantern!! Wuh 'bout us!?"
>Hal saves them and literally billions of others all the time either by himself or with the League

Why are comic writers so shit at trying to put in some kind of social message? These things don't work if the super hero in question is someone like GL or Superman who saves billions every day

>Is Cap supposed to undermine the authority of the Government?
He only sort of works for them, like they give him missions and occasionally orders, but he could absolutely tell them to go to hell, because he's Captain fucking America. What are they gonna do, arrest him? That didn't work out particularly well for anyone when Tony did it.

I miss O*N*E bro.

>Mutants are no different from us in the Fantastic Four or the Avengers!
>Yeah, that's true... WE HATE ALL THE FREAKS! GET THEM ALL!!!

Because they give him no end of shit.

>Why are comic writers so shit at trying to put in some kind of social message?

Because as shocking as it may seem, super hero adventure stories probably aren't the vest vehicle to serve as an allegory for racial issues

Because comic writers are generally liberal and they love inserting social commentary from our world into a continuity where there's Kryptonians, Atlanteans, Amazons, New Gods, and all sorts of fantastical shit.

This is why I prefer DC's setting. You'd never see the Justice League just sit around and let the genocide of mutants happen. Or shit like Doctor Doom ruling a country.

>hydra cap gives them a whole country
>"good" cap supports the government that tears it down using sentinels the symbols of mutant genocide.

Jesus

DC has their own problems, but I do agree that there's generally some things in Marvel that wouldn't fly in their universe.

Uh except in the JLA/avengers crossover batman forbids all of them from doing anything about it

except when it's dealing with vigilantes

Because this isn't about superheroes dealing with them at all. It's about what are regular civilian authorities suppose to do when encountering Mutant criminals in states & cities without a notable superhero presence like NYC.
It's no different then the mindset of why we gave swat teams for more intense threats.

Except the mutant state was an apartheid state where humans were arrested on the word of a mutant. It was in itself unjust in its existence.

Comic Book Writers don't understand that they can't solve societal problems in a single issue because it comes off as exploiting the struggles of oppressed people for entertainment. I believe Bruce Timm made this observation during one episode of Batman Animated Series.

wazzat humie? inequality?
Just deserts

But there is nothing fucking fascist about making mutants abide by the same laws as regular citizens.

What, do you think the Justice League should make the Marvel Universe less crap? Can't Marvel heroes take care of themselves?

>It's about what are regular civilian authorities suppose to do when encountering Mutant criminals in states & cities without a notable superhero presence like NYC.
That's only because 99% of Marvel heroes are based in the greater metropolitan area of NYC.

That's because if the JLA intervened in Marvel's Earth, they probably would've created more problems similar to what the Federation's Prime Directive is in Star Trek.

And Batman is a bit of hypocrite when it comes to anything street related.

>There's simply no good explanation why global genocide can occur in a world overflowing with superheroes that moralize in black/white terms.
in fact it DID NOT HAPPEN until Morrison during the "everything is separated" days.

Not that user but I agree with how you're seeing it, but unfortunately that is how a lot of people work when it comes to supporting movements or just latching on to them.
Even if Cap did everything to make things better, there would be a large amount who would just agree just because it's Cap or even disagree just because it's Cap. Ultimately they wouldn't be thinking for themselves because who they see as the central figurehead is telling them what they should do rather than just figuring it out themselves and nothing would truly improve.
It's also kind of like how some writers like to write that Batman doesn't like Superman being in Gotham. One example was from No Man's Land where Batman tried making a point to Superman that if he just came in and fixed all their problems without them figuring it out then they wouldn't learn anything and be doomed to repeat everything again. So to compromise, Superman went back to Gotham just as Clark and taught citizens how to farm and all that stuff. Admittedly, it was written a bit sloppily in the actual run but Bats did have a point to it.

tl;dr If Cap tries to influence others, they ultimately don't learn anything from it and just think he can fix all their problems without them having to do anything

>What he should've done was institute 2 groups: one team is the X-Men; a publicly visible group of appealing superheroes wearing flashy costumes to give mutants good PR. The other team is X-Force, the hidden face of X-Men which is basically their own black ops unit that targets anti-mutant extremists and programs. They do their stuff under the radar.
what Rightclops did(or tried to do).
Except his X-Force was literally a kill squad and his X-Men weren't really public superheroes.

Because it is the American thing to do.

I love when Superman guest-starred in No Man's Land and I get what you and are saying. But for Cap to just stand there and not do anything about mutant persecution wouldn't last too long.

Putting aside the horrific writing in Civil War, Cap could've opposed Superhuman Registration like run for President (something that he once did in the 80's), but instead we got a cliche brawlfest with ham-fisted messages.

Even if Cap doesn't make a national platform about fighting for mutant rights, at some point, he's going to step in and try to help out because when you have assholes hijack well-meaning government responses and programs to fuck over mutants, then the gloves are off.

But you get what I mean right?

Remember how Team Gold and Team Blue were in the 90's? That's sorta the approach I'm recommending here, but way back when the O5 were teens because they could've tapped into the whole rebellious cool teen image.

Xavier didnt die for his uniform to be used by oppressive police,what the hell Beast

So, Captain America has to let the government kill innocent people based on genetics because otherwise "people wouldn't learn"?

Pretty heroic.

>Or shit like Doctor Doom ruling a country.

Uh, Black Adam ruled Kanhdaq. Bane ruled/rules Santa Prisca. Joker was Iran's UN ambassador. Queen Bee ruled Bialya with Jack O' Lantern.

Let's agree to disagree then
I guess just think of it this way: if this sort of thing was actually happening in real life would Cap be able to stand for it that easily? It's not impossible but it definitely would meet a lot of roadblocks.

The destruction of Genosha occurred too fast for anyone to react. A matter of seconds, really.

I do wholly agree: public face, a team of red-blooded all-american teenagers who use their god-given power for the Public Good.

Hidden face, a number of ugly mutants to murder those against the muties

Yes, like Kang's assault on the Worl... wait.

There was Firestar.

but Firestar is a race traitor who dislikes the mutant teams

I think the social commentary message works better with heroes like. Blue Marvel, you have an immensely powerful hero operating in a polarized time who seems to do jack shit for his community.

It doesn't mean shit to the people on the ground that you saved the world from an asteroid if your own people are getting treated like dogs in their day to day.

>Is Cap supposed to undermine the authority of the Government?
Isn't that his entire thing?

Faggot the avengers are saving the world. When Genosha was being genocided the Xmen did nothing while the avengers was fighting off Kang.

Neither one of them care about Humans. 9/11 happened in the marvel universe and not a single person did anything about it.

>What Cap, Reed, and Tony should've done way back is create a program for young mutants who've developed their powers.
If they found a way to ease relations between humans and muties, they'd no longer have any political leverage .
The Mutant race must always remain in perpetual state of victimhood and subservience to their non-mutant benefactors. Were they actually to achieve their goals and become equals amongst the common people their comics, movies, and TV shows would not sell as well.

Isn't that the Dark Beast exiled from a different universe?

No, that was OG Beast. Dark Beast was working in a hidden lab somewhere, but regular Beast was happy to be running internment camps because he's a fucking hypocrite

He doesn't do that. There are several AUs and main stories where he supports mutants and would help them. Its just the writers like to ignore them or don't even know they exist.

What is this from?

Because they are mongrels and need to be put down.

JLA/Avengers, a four part miniseries written by Kurt Busiek and illustrated by Perez

Avengers vs JLA

In which Kurt Busiek, arguably the best Avengers writer ever, showed that the Avengers are nothing compared to the Justice League.

because mutants are freaks that need to be put down like the dogs they are

and yet Beast thought it was a good example of what they could achieve
fucking collaborator

ONE bro was awesome. didn't he also cover for the kids a couple of times?

The JLa was seen as fascists...

>even in the 80s, canadians were crybaby little fags that whined at americans about oppression and racism
wow what a hard life it is having super powers

Just because DCU civilians liked them. The Marvel heroes couldn't believe that heroes could be well-loved by their people.

Then again, the Justice League don't let civilians be genocided based on genetics.

...

Couldn't they just go like, have adventures in space fighting aliens or some shit? I mean maybe Im retarded but I always took the "Fighting for a world that fears and hates us" and Xavier's dream as just a vague justification for super heroics and not an actual narrative goal. Sort of like their "With great power comes great responsibility" shtick

...

What the fuck is his problem?

What kind of insult is that.

>He fought in WW2 to prevent people from being rounded up due to their genetics.
>imprisons the Japanese
Why are you people so retarded? Nobody fought WW2 for the sake of ending white supremacy.

Same thing as every liberal - they hate winners.

>trying to make some point about racism or some shit
>make the mouthpiece the niggest nig possible without putting watermelon and lean in his hand and making him go "*sucks teeth* SHEEEEIIIIIIIT"

>Did someone get hurt when a kid's X-Gene go active?

Haven't they've had stories precisely where some kids X-gene went active and the first thing that happened is some horrible explosion that takes out a city block because they're powerful and have no idea how to control it?