Did Morrison's run ruin Batman?

Did Morrison's run ruin Batman?

Not the writing per se, but the critical and fan reception, the countless analyses and annotations, the perception of it - it feels like every writer post-Morrison is trying to "cement their place in the canon". Both Snyder and King are extremely guilty of it. Dumb fucks Daniel and Finch as well albeit to a lesser degree as the impact of their runs is mostly ignored.

Is Batman doomed to fight his long-lost siblings, long-hidden secret societies and disfunctional marriages, "die" and comeback via super cosmic resurrection machines (while passing the mantle to this totally unexpected supporting character!) until the rest of his publication run?

I feel like Snyder and King are an anomaly. I think if anyone else were doing Batman it would be different. I think King's Batman is distinct from SNyder's and Morrison's though

Morrison's run is The Dark Knight movies of Batman runs. Everyone tries it but falls short and it's not exactly that good either.

>Did Morrison's run ruin Batman?
Yes. It was him that started the Bat-Jesus thing and since his run everything has to be larger than life. Before Morrison, Batman would go against big threats but he would usually deal with minor villains as well, and sometimes even job to street level thugs.

To me, if I had to chose a single run that represents the character the best, I'd go with Alan Grant's. That's Batman.

A little bit. It ruined every other run because they'd never be as good.

>die" and comeback via super cosmic resurrection machines (while passing the mantle to this totally unexpected supporting character!)
Don't know about the rest of that but King is doing this right after both Snyder and Morrison did it so I'd say yes.

No. Morrison's run did more for the character than any other author in about two decades. He left literally hundreds of beautiful seeds for future writers to pick up on and go wild with. Morrison deconstructed everything that had gone wrong with the character and contributed to his stagnation, and then built his world back up higher than it had every been before. DC then quickly proceeded to burn it to the ground, bury it six feet deep, and since then have been trying to dig it back up frantically with their bare hands once they realized how borderline inconceivably stupid they had been.

Trying to pin people trying to make their mark on a character on Morrison is pretty stupid. Everyone has always done that.

>Morrisonfags

If they weren't retarded we would still have Dickbats.

>fagfags

Which alone set up five years of fresh storytelling with the type of potential that allowed even Scott Snyder to flourish.

die Tim.fag.....

No.

It isn't Morrison's fault that other writers aren't as good as him but want to seem as smart.

Honest to god, when the New 52 started I was on the CBR forums pointing out how many parallels there were being Morrison's "Black Glove" and Snyder's Court of Owls, right down to the Talon looking and functioning just like the "Third Batman". Scott Snyder actually fucking PM'd me a weepy message about how "I know I'm not as good as Morrison, but I'm not trying to be, just just just give me a try." Then he proceeds to introduce a Lincoln March character that resembles Bruce and could be related to him the same way Dr Hurt was played up.

And now we have Tom King overthinking everything about Bruce's motivation and what he wants in life. Nicca, you ain't Grant Morrison so don't get lost in this stuff.

I don't even think GMo's run is flawless. Inc in particular is subpar. But overall it was a great saga. We don't need a 100-issue "epic" from Tom King and if Snyder knows what's good for him he'll not touch the character for another decade after Metal.

Nigga what? Morrison's run had Batman going up against smaller villains too and those were some of the best parts. Do you not remember the whole professor pig storyline?

Morrison's run was great because it tried to stay true to all versions of Batman since Batman started so it would have something for everyone no matter what kind of Batman you liked.

Snyder's run however has probably had one of the best art Batman has ever had. Snyder kept trying hard to copy the big Batman story arcs like death of the family and year 1 and didn't really have a voice on his own.

Snyder knows he only sells when he's writing Batman

he's like Slott only he let go of the main series

Morrisons run was more in line with 70s Batman. A more secret agent take on the character, a caped crusader, the world's greatest detective. Rather than a dark knight that we've all gotten use too

Inc. Vol 1 is probably the high point of his run, I dunno what you are talking about.

>Scott Snyder actually fucking PM'd me a weepy message about how "I know I'm not as good as Morrison, but I'm not trying to be, just just just give me a try."
Proof or gtfo

Batman and Robin is objectively the high point

His status quo was too good in the end, nowhere to go but down.

I won't argue with that. It's probably the high water mark for modern Batman comics that will never be touched again. But I found Inc. to be a spiritual continuation of Batman and Robin, and it was a joy to see the esoteric campiness applied to Bruce while Morrison was bounding into the sunset after laying all that groundwork. Those ten issues held more promise and excitement than we'll probably ever see in mainstream comics again.

i also wanna see this

>Did Morrison's run ruin Batman?

Not his fault that Snyder was a retarded cunt too stupid to stop trying to be bootleg Morrison, King seems less guilty of it but I agree that they both seem to be trying to be as grand as Morrison and they failed.

Rip was objectively the high point.

not with that art

>No comeback
>Y-You're retarded

Dick as Gotham's Batman, and Bruce as The Crossover Batman with Batman, Inc. was one of the best imaginable status quos we could have ever asked for.

So, of course we barely got to have it.

>while passing the mantle to this totally unexpected supporting character!
King's already going full Bendis with M̶i̶l̶e̶s̶ Duke, so yes.

Distinctly bad, maybe.

nice meme

I liked his run on Swamp Thing (not as much as Soule's tho), and that sold VERY well.

>Did Morrison's run ruin Batman?
Timfags.

I seriously hate timfags.
All fanboys are shit. Enough said.

You are making some cogent points. But in case you are having a stroke, seek help.

Tim Fanboys = The worst type of fanboys

Next thing, angry timfags will cause riots in the streets!

Morrison is massively over-rated

My thoughts exactly.

Synder pls.

Ok now I'm worried.

just like his run on the x-men he has ruined it because there will never be a better written version of the characters.

But Morrison's run is not dull and nowhere near as pretentious.

I want to read some Rebirth Batman/Detective Comics, anything major I need to know since the last time I read anything Batman related was Morrison's run. I skipped all of Snyder's run but I think the only thing I ever read from New 52 was Arkham Manor which I enjoyed a lot.

>Morrison's run is so good no one can decide on the highpoint
It was "What the Butler Saw"

Morrison takes half the blame, Loeb & the over lauded Hush run take the other half of trying to tell 'important' stories to get noticed in the media as opposed to just good ones.

Also Damien & Hush? Creators get money now when they get used now.

>I was on the CBR forums

>Creators get money now when they get used now.

Well now it makes a bit more sense why Snyder created all those useless OC and the existence of Duke.

The art in RIP was great though.

Him too

I'm sorry if a lot of ppl already asked this question but what is canon since rebirth? For exemple, is Batgirl still in a wheelchair?
What part of the comic did they erase?

Oracle still happened, its just at the start of her New 52 series she went to a clinic in Africa that somehow made her walk again.

Another thing is that a lot of the people on this board's first Batman run was the Morrison one. I'm sure there are some older people on here but a lot of people get seriously into comics around 11-12 and Morrison's run started in 2006-2007. Leaving the people in their twenties most knowledgable about the post-Morrison stuff.

That said, DC also doesn't make previous runs of Detective Comics and Batman very available so it's difficult to track down Englehart's, Starlin's, or Dennis O'Neil's runs either on download or on collected edition.

So they didn't erase any substantial element of Batman then?

No, everything is still vaugely canon in some way. The only big difference I can see is that Cass makes her first appearance in (IIRC) B&R Eternal instead of No Mans Land.

Morrisons run only increases exponentially in quality if you grew up on the older stuff. Don't really know what you're going for here.

it's either Batman Reborn or Batman and Robin Must Die

Pretty sure it's The Return of Bruce Wayne.

It's Damifag

the latter two posts are way too coherent for Damifag

this guy knows whats up

...

The reason it's the most talked about and what Sup Forums-friends constantly compare shit to is that it's the first thing they read.

all this whining about Damifags are just Jasonfags or the occasional Timfag being their usual selves

Nope you're talking about Snyder and King there.

You can't really blame Morrison's run for the runs after it.

I liked his run (or at least parts of it), but I've never been that enamored with the hamhanded mythologizing.

It's a seven year relatively highly inaccessible run. That's not the reason it's lauded.

Morrisons writing in Batman was so abysmally poor I nearly gave up. Pic related.
Never understood why some people think highly of him. He often doesn't even get the characters he writes, just pumps his drug induced ideas and fails to tie anything up at the end.

It speaks volumes that in order to criticize him you have to single out the one issue that's only prose.

it's not even the worst issue in the run

Ok chief. Shoulda posted that one then.

I disagree. You can find faults with anything if you stare long enough, but in general I've always thought when reading Morrisons stuff "this is good writing, is is something better than normal"

no, I'm agreeing with you

I think Morrison was like that, preachy in his psychodelic and magical ways, but that was him in the 90s. He got older and mellowed out in the 00s and stopped trying to do such magical mumbo-jumbo just for the fuck of it, he is definitely a better writer than before and neither his Batman or his X-Men run have anything in common with his previous work or your gripes that you have posted in there.

Crazy shit like that should always be happening in cape comics. If you're not interested in wild stories you may want to check out other genres.

Pure fucking kino

Fair enough, although I'd say the prose issue is a strong contender.

That's garbage.

Tony Daniel might be the worst Jim Lee knockoff

i forgot to post the last page

There have been plenty of great Batman runs/stories that were relatively muted or focused on smaller scale events.

No, you clearly haven't read much Batman if you think this. The only slight difference is the blockbuster storylines and writing for a trade mentality. And DC treating Snyder like a rock star that could rock the boat with the status quo a bit too eagerly.

>And now we have Tom King overthinking everything about Bruce's motivation and what he wants in life.

It's not really overthinking, it's more about slowly exploring long form about Bruce looking at the possibilities of having a meaningful life and legacy that go beyond his nightly patrols as Batman after nearly dying in the line of duty. Hence the marriage and his almost suicidal need to save Gotham girl.

i.e. attempting everything Morrison did but in a much worse way that reveals a fundamental lack of understanding of the character

It's a different type of take, nothing more.

>Start of Bat Jesus
No, that'd be this, at least for in canon shit. TDKR otherwise. Tower of Babel was by far the most damaging Bat Jesus thing however. Morrison you could cite him beating the White Martians in JLA but that at least was a feasable plan, and the JLA got fucked up beforehand including Batman.

This, post it or fucking neck yourself dude

Nah I think it's Final Crisis' "Hh. Gotcha".

Are you seriously implying people read Morrison before fucking Miller? How retarded are you?

It's a terrible take that flies in the face of everything the character stands for.

Don't you mean Snyder?

Respectfully I disagree.

Guy literally takes off his ring right before that punch, and Bruce wasn't even infallible in JLI

Why do we need another black Batman sidekick, especially when batwing was demoted to be in Gotham

I've read JLI shithead and that's a great scene, but it still is the genesis of modern Batwank. Guy's a tough spacecop, he took beatings from his dad every day, he also was a top flight athlete, a football player nonetheless. Him going down in one punch to Bats, just to build him up as more credible in the league is pretty absurd, he should be able to last at least a few seconds, and certainly should be able to take hits if anything.

my niggas
this is easily my favorite Batman moment

Check this faggot out, are you fucking serious user. Does it bother you that much that Fucking Batman one of the best fighters in the DCU oneshot fucking Guy. Nothing you just wrote give Guy any chance against Batman.

>Talia and Catwoman can fight Batman to a standstill
>Fucking mooks take multiple hits from Batman
>but a depowered hardass hero getting oneshot for the specific purpose of having Batman be built up in the story is fine and not Batwank
Batfags are fucking cancer
>in4 I-I'm n-not a batfag

I'm biased because I started reading DC with Morrison' Batman (and Johns' GL) but here are my two cents.

I don't really think that Snyder and King (and to a degree, Tynion, Daniel and Finch) are consciously trying to imitate Morrison's run with 'the stakes are higher than ever!' stories. It's more about how sales changed during Morrison's run. Batman wasn't that good a seller early in Morrison's run (Marvel was seriously kicking DC's ass those years) he only got really big with TDK/RIP/B&R and the sales stayed good ever since.

IMO it's the editorial pushing the writers to do these bombastic stories (don't forget how Snyder started with the great and grounded Black Mirror). God knows, I'd kill for a run where Batman actually acts like the world's greatest detective instead of an immortal punching bag/suffering machine. The only runs I've genuinely enjoyed since Morrison was Tomasi's and Layman's VERY underrated Tec' run.

>for the specific purpose of having Batman be built up in the story
it's a joke, you autist

No I am a Batfag and I think Talia would kick Guys ass too same with Catwoman. Its funny you bring up just random encounters when this is a (Bat)Mano e Guyo fight different scenario user. Superman struggles against things he shouldn't all the time so does fucking Flash who should be invincible try a different argument fuck face.