Hello Sup Forums, I think I'm reaching a point in my life where I really want to believe in a creator

Hello Sup Forums, I think I'm reaching a point in my life where I really want to believe in a creator.
I just find it extremely difficult to overcome the logical problems that the idea seems to bring.
Do any christfags that were atheists have any advice or know any books I should read on the subject?

Other urls found in this thread:

amazon.com/Was-Jesus-Who-He-Said/dp/0892836245
amazon.com/Spiritual-Journeys-Robert-Baram/dp/0819868760/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1475216399&sr=1-2
godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html
reasonablefaith.org/question-answer
youtube.com/watch?v=1_v9tz2nxvs
ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/summa/home.html
faculty.smu.edu/nschwart/2312/lifeyousave.htm
m.learning.hccs.edu/faculty/desmond.lewis/inrw-0420/a-good-man-is-hard-to-find/A Good Man Is Hard To Find.pdf
amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310339308
youtube.com/watch?v=XP0J2eDPIjU
gnosis.org/naghamm/eugn.html
gnosis.org/naghamm/sjc.html
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere_Christianity
wikilivres.ca/w/images/4/4e/C._S._Lewis_-_Mere_Christianity.pdf
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

What are the logical problems?

Mere Christianity is an excellent book

>I just find it extremely difficult to overcome the logical problems
You're almost ready to take the step into faith user

About omniscience and free will, for example.
Also, omnipotence.

>the logical problems that the idea seems to bring.
Interested. Could you explain?
This. It's the best books for introductions to the faith.

You don't even know what gods are.

That's why I'm trying to learn, right?

>I think I'm reaching a point in my life where I really want to believe in a creator.
Why?
>any books I should read on the subject?
Read The Door into Summer.
>Mere Christianity is an excellent book
I haven't read it but I'm guessing if the rest of the authors body of work is any indication it isn't.

>Logical problems with believing in intelligent design and order of the creation you live on

>Ask God for the gift of faith.

>Make a conditional prayer even if you don't believe in God.

For example: "God, if you're out there (which I doubt), please give me the gift of faith."

And then, keep an open mind as you come into contact with various sources of information - friends, the internet, radio, tv - that touch on your interest in wanting to believe in a creator. Such things may not come at you straight on. They may be a little sideways.

Renew that contingent prayer periodically.

And remember: "If today you hear his voice, harden not your heart"

~~Consider reading Michael Green, "Was Jesus Who He Said He Was?" for a short, but nicely written explanation of the historical case for Christ.

Link: amazon.com/Was-Jesus-Who-He-Said/dp/0892836245

~~You might also try an excellent book of Christian conversion stories titled "Spiritual Journeys"

Link: amazon.com/Spiritual-Journeys-Robert-Baram/dp/0819868760/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1475216399&sr=1-2

read

How deep down the rabbit hole and how much reading are you wanting to do?

Stop pushing your age of Pisces great I AM incarnation. For fucks sake at least try to find the water bearer, and kill the fish while youre at it.

godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html
This responds to most of the so called christian criticisms

pretty good resource here:
reasonablefaith.org/question-answer

As far as it goes.
I'm currently a NEET, so I don't really mind.

Stop reading new atheists. They are using a lot of definitions no theologian has ever used.

The idea of omniscience is that God is "outside" time and space and can look at the universe at all points of time and space "at the same time". So, if you choose to do something, your future changes "immediately" and He can "immediately" see how it changed. This is very similar to how the concepts of time and space are used in relativistic mechanics.

On omnipotence, it's meant that God is pure or true actuality. See the difference between actuality and potentially by Aristotle and the work of Aquinas on the cosmological argument.

This video will show you the way my son:

youtube.com/watch?v=1_v9tz2nxvs

Thanks for everyone who's answering so far, I'm on a mobile and I'm too lazy to reply to everyone.

The reason I ask is that the question of free will is actually tied directly into God's omnipotence.

The quick and dirty answer is that because God is omnipotent, man essentially has no "free will" as we know the expression today. To say that man has such a "free will" is to deny the omnipotence of God because you're essentially saying that God has no power over the will of Man. They are mutually exclusive.

The usual argument that goes with omnipotence is the "can God make a stone he cant lift?" to which my argument is always "Who the fuck care?". In all seriousness tho, would it really matter if he is just slightly under omnipotence? would it make him any less of your creator? Would it affect his declared love for you? yadda yadda yadda, you get the deal.

The omnipresence thing seems unconcievable but in the case that God did exist, there is no guarantee that he lives in a plane that follows the same physical rules we know and understand today. So perhaps omnipresence in our realm would be possible for him.

>I just find it extremely difficult to overcome the logical problems that the idea seems to bring.

Strongly recommend that you consciously put this problem in the hands of God, so to speak, with good will and trust.

With the attitude: I can't figure this out on my own. Lead me to the truth, and I will accept it.

Try this approach. You might be surprised. God is very subtle, and can enlighten your mind in ways you can't predict; but when the light comes in, you realize you now see in a way you did not before.

Trust in God. The fact you're even asking these questions as you are in a public forum is, I think, an indication of God's Spirit at work in you -- and, in turn, your showing good faith by posing the questions as you have done. God draws you on, and as you cooperate, He will draw you deeper and deeper towards the truth.

Believe this, and trust in God's goodness and good will for you.

>"For I know the plans I have for you," declares the LORD, "plans to prosper you and not to harm you, plans to give you hope and a future."
-Jeremiah 29:11

>muh therapeutic conversion
>muh needs
>muh life
fuck off we're full

Read "The Inner Kingdom" by Kallistos Ware.

Don't you have to watch Muhammad blow up your house or something?

just read the new testament before you read the old one

Thanks, I'll try that.

>I just find it extremely difficult to overcome the logical problems that the idea seems to bring.
Which logical problems specifically?

The relations between omniscience, omnipotence and free will, also the whole redemption from things he created himself. It always seemed very illogical to me, but lately I've been having more and more interest in the spiritual side of it, if you can call it that.

Yes the only thing that can convince you is the Holy Spirit

Also, to those who follow a specific Christian denomination, why did you choose the one you did?

Because I find them to follow the bible the best

A good conservative Presbyterian or a baptist church are pretty based on scripture

>About omniscience and free will, for example.

This is one of the thorniest problems.

One facet of an approach to it is this:

"Free will does not mean one will, but many wills conflicting in one man. Freedom cannot be conceived simply. It is a mystery."
-Flannery O'Connor

>Do any christfags that were atheists have any advice or know any books I should read on the subject?

Reading the fiction and letters of Flannery O'Connor were a critical step in my going from agnostic to believer ~~ that said, I don't recommend her writings for everyone. You may not be on her wavelength. Just throwing this out there...

You might wan to check out Pink's "The Sovereignty Of God" looks like a quick read through with good meat, but personally I've found John Calvin's "Institutes of the Christian Religion" to be a valuable resource because he's very intelligent (skip to the chapters you need). Spurgeon's "Free Will-A Slave" is a good sermon, but I don't know how useful it is to directly answer those questions.

Tbh I think the Calvinists probably have the most philosophy rigorous treatment of the subject, but also the most theologically correct

>You may not be on her wavelength.
Is that subtly calling me a moron?
Explain.

Pretty much
God is sovereign over all

That's the worst advice ever. You want him to have no foundation for the shit Jesus spews?
>lately I've been having more and more interest in the spiritual side of it
Why? Are you stupid? Do you have brain problems?
>the whole redemption from things he created himself
The answer to that problem is: don't think about it, just have faith. Really any issue you ever have can be solved by not thinking about it and having more faith. And you shouldn't read any apologetics crap, it'll make you want to stay away from faith.

It makes way more sense in the context of a holographic universe. There's a science to it, not the hillbilly bullshit liberals like to portray it as.

ccel.org/ccel/aquinas/summa/home.html

/thread

Bible verses to help

Romans 3:10-12 as it is written, “There is none righteous, not even one; There is none who understands, There is none who seeks for God; All have turned aside, together they have become useless; There is none who does good, There is not even one.”

1 Corinthians 2:14-15 But a natural man does not accept the things of the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him; and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually appraised. But he who is spiritual appraises all things, yet he himself is appraised by no one.

John 3:15-20 so that whoever believes will in Him have eternal life. “For God so loved the world, that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him shall not perish, but have eternal life. For God did not send the Son into the world to judge the world, but that the world might be saved through Him. He who believes in Him is not judged; he who does not believe has been judged already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. This is the judgment, that the Light has come into the world, and men loved the darkness rather than the Light, for their deeds were evil. For everyone who does evil hates the Light, and does not come to the Light for fear that his deeds will be exposed.

John 10:28-30 and I give eternal life to them, and they will never perish; and no one will snatch them out of My hand. My Father, who has given them to Me, is greater than all; and no one is able to snatch them out of the Father’s hand. I and the Father are one.”

Naw, not at all. It's just that I really got into her writing. In particular, her fiction, which can seem at face value, like the work of an extreme skeptic or cynic.

For example, read "A Good Man is Hard to Find" or "The Life You Save May be Your Own," both of which I'm pretty sure you can find for free online.

I suspect you'll react like I did, and think they were written by a grinning cynic rather than a practicing Catholic.

Intrigued by this apparent conflict - the strange discrepancy between the skeptical impression of her stories vs. my knowledge that she was an orthodox Christian - I delved deeper into her work, and basically read everything she'd written. In an odd way that worked for me but that I'm not sure would work for anyone else - because she didn't write straight apologetics like, say, C.S. Lewis - her work had the effect of planting and helping to grow the seed of faith in me.

So, no, I'm not remotely calling you a moron, just responding, with a necessary caveat, to the question you posed in your OP ("any advice or know any books I should read on the subject?").

>omniscience, omnipotence and free will
the problem you're going to run into looking into this isn't that there's no logical way to reconcile them, it's that there are many.
>supralapsarianism(calvin), infralapsarianism(augustine), molinism, arminianism

Don't fall for the monotheistic religion christian meme.


Embrace and revive the Celtic gods. Polytheistic religions are a lot more interesting.

Alright, thanks.

Here ya go, if you're interested:

"The Life You Save May Be Your Own"
faculty.smu.edu/nschwart/2312/lifeyousave.htm

And here's "A Good Man Is Hard to Find" (her most famous story), starting on p. 5:
m.learning.hccs.edu/faculty/desmond.lewis/inrw-0420/a-good-man-is-hard-to-find/A Good Man Is Hard To Find.pdf

I would say we have free choice, but our choices are bound by our nature, so a fallen man desires his wickedness over God to a point were he will never choose God by his own volition

Just demons pretending to be God

Absolutely bud. Check out two titles by Lee Strobel: The Case for a Creator, and The Case for Christ.

amazon.com/Case-Christ-Journalists-Personal-Investigation/dp/0310339308

>revive the Celtic gods
The obvious choice here is the Roman Mysteries, which saw the gods of each Indo-European tribe (from UK to India) as a variations of one another. Obviously Greek and Roman were very closely related but they all follow a pattern. If you tried, you could piece together the original Indo-European gods. Those would be the ones to worship.

You might as well worship yourself

Look for any that have a reformed theology (typically Baptist or some Presbyterians). The reason I go reformed is that it's straight Gospel and Biblical truth. >The idea of omniscience is that God is "outside" time and space and can look at the universe at all points of time and space "at the same time". So, if you choose to do something, your future changes "immediately" and He can "immediately" see how it changed.
You're correct with the first statement, but incorrect in the second statement. No changes exist for God, nor are human choices a mystery for Him. A) Because he already knows what will be chosen and B) We know he in fact influences choices, either directly or by giving man over to his own sinful nature or the influence of evil spirits.

If you want to know the Creator then you have to look into Gnostic Christianity.

First you have to understand that there is a Difference between our Father / Creator who made us humans and the Father / Creator of the Universe.

The Lord of the Bible is what is known as an Archon.

He is the Demiurge.

Those Christians are following a Pagan version of their Religion.

Its a false form of Monotheism.

The Hebrew Bible that became the OT came from the Sumerian Tablets. Its all based on these old gods of Mesopotamia the Anunnaki.

These are the same as the Archons. It means Lord or Ruler.

Alright. Now I'm confused.
I've never heard of those terms.

If humanity is 250,000 years old, and had primitive religion all that time, why is a young 2000 year old religion the Truth?

You're denying free will. It's God itself that never changes, not the world.

Also, the bible is not the straight up word from God but the human interpretation of divine revelation. More importantly, the biblical canon itself is chosen by people and not by God.

Himself*

That's not a logical problem.

Sophia is back

Dualism gematria.

>fallen
how'd that happen

Its Gnostic Terminology that comes from the Nag Hammadi and other Gnostic text.

The Demiurge is the Chief Archon, one of the Lords of the Garden. He is the Jealous god.

Samael, Saklas or Yaldabaoth.

He is seen as the Planet Saturn and is known as Anu or El, the Father god Cronus. The Black Cube.

Surgically remove part of your neocortex.

Or did Christianity brand the old Gods demons to delegitemize them?

For those who "want to believe," but can't, here are some things you can do. If you do them, it will greatly facilitate you achieving first-hand experience of God, which is an important part of Orthodox faith.

>Read three chapters from the Gospels every day.

>Pray the Jesus Prayer whenever you are waiting or have nothing to focus your mind on.

>Pray the Our Father first thing after you wake up, every morning

>Every time you are tempted by anger, lust, or anything else, follow what the monk does in this cartoon: youtube.com/watch?v=XP0J2eDPIjU

>Make the Sign of the Cross a few times every day, which is praying with your fingertips.

>Come to Divine Liturgy every Sunday.

>Read Psalm 50 every night (Psalm 51 in non-Orthodox Bibles).

>Read The Way of a Pilgrim

Optional: read Laurus, a new Orthodox literary novel

Sophia modeled her creation after her Fathers Pleroma. But she failed and became ashamed of what she made. The Demiurge is said to be her Abortion.

You are not supposed to understand the creator. Just know that the assertion of faith that God did send his Son to us is all you need to make it known to yourself. Pic related is what finally converted me. It's from Origen, a man who almost became a saint, who lived before the Nicene Creed

This is simple shit.

Do you remember when you typed your text before you submitted your thread? That's you, being a Creator. God, the Great Creator of All, is none other than that very same will applied to all things. This will exists in all living things and all energy and material. God willed quanta to condense into hydrogen and collapse into stars just as surely as you are willing yourself to read this sentence.

You are just a tiny fragment of God.

That's the only thing that's sure about God. All the other stories and religions are just cultural ways to make sense of this one truth. choose whichever stories help you learn the best.

Its a problem nontheless.

>I think I'm reaching a point in my life where I really want to believe in a creator.

Don't. You'd be deluding yourself.

Also, you might try making prostrations every weeknight. 33 for the age of Christ before he started his ministry. Stand, go to your knees, then prostrate yourself and touch your forehead to the ground, then go back to your knees, then stand up, and do that 33 times. As you do it, say the Jesus Prayer slowly and heartfelt ("Lord Jesus Christ, Son of God, have mercy on me, a sinner.")

>You are not supposed to understand the creator

He-Who-Is is ineffable. No principle knew him, no authority, no subjection, nor any creature from the foundation of the world, except he alone. For he is immortal and eternal, having no birth; for everyone who has birth will perish. He is unbegotten, having no beginning; for everyone who has a beginning has an end. No one rules over him. He has no name; for whoever has a name is the creation of another. He is unnameable. He has no human form; for whoever has human form is the creation of another. He has his own semblance - not like the semblance we have received and seen, but a strange semblance that surpasses all things and is better than the totalities. It looks to every side and sees itself from itself. He is infinite; he is incomprehensible. He is ever imperishable (and) has no likeness (to anything). He is unchanging good. He is faultless. He is everlasting. He is blessed. He is unknowable, while he (nonetheless) knows himself. He is immeasurable. He is untraceable. He is perfect, having no defect. He is imperishably blessed. He is called 'Father of the Universe'.

Seems like bait. Man up and stop with the fairy shit. Your life has no meaning, get over it.

I realized there HAD to be a force/god/something.

Quantum researchers have found that when they EXPECT a quantum particle to behave a certain way, that it does. When they remove their expectation and observation, then the particles behave randomly.

Through expectation, we can change the reality of what occurs at a quantum level. What is expectation but belief?

God very probably isn't some skydaddy, though that's how simpler people defined it in a by-gone age. The Force? The Light? Perhaps prayer = meditation = the power of positive thinking= voicing and imagining our expectation... but if we can change reality at a quantum level just by our expectation, then its very likely we can affect what builds on those particles to create our larger reality.

Belief has been scientifically observed to affect quantum behaviors. There shouldn't be much doubt that if it can affect the quantum undercurrent (or foam) that it might be broad enough to affect it in ways we could observe in our larger reality.

Pray, meditate, envision...to God or kek or the forces of nature...just believe.

>godandscience.org/apologetics/answers.html
Sorry, that is complete fucking bullshit.
I tried reading there answers but it was like watching a 2 year old try to pound the square peg through the triangular hole with a fucking sledgehammer.

Who is this? Origen?

It's honestly not bait.
I've always believed that nothing had objective meaning as well, but if I end up not believing anyway, at least I'll have some more knowledge in the end.

that wasn't the site i linked

Not really. You are implying that anything that has got a recent explanation that also had one in the past has to be put into doubt. You're not only questioning classical theism here, but other bodies of knowledge.

Lastly, if you want to follow that argument, you should really be starting more or less at 10.000 BC, the agricultural revolution, as that is when humans started specializing on different activities.

If you believe it enough, it will (of course) come true!
Not arguing with ya about that, I just choose to believe in something.... better.

This.

There are many truths to many people. Faith is what you make it.

Everything could not have come from nothing. Even if blackholes and nebula star factories are just the feeding and shitting of a universal cycle, that cycle is a heartbeat.

You have been given many gifts, or you would not be here.

It comes from the Nag Hammadi.

Example: Eugnostos the Blessed or The Sophia of Jesus Christ

gnosis.org/naghamm/eugn.html

gnosis.org/naghamm/sjc.html

We're animals. If you look at birds or insects or especially intelligent apes, do they have a creator and all that? Hell no, it's survival of the fittest, and the evolution of the DNA molecule in competition with itself.

Pol has an obsession with being a white christian who wears jeans and homesteads, stop buying the bull. Anyone who believes in sky fairies is delusional.

There's no point in looking for knowledge on this. It's all about faith, aka brainwashing yourself.

Actually I'm probably wrong, if you can start believing yourself on this you'll probably be happy, so yeah join your religious brethren in brazil, at least you won't stick out so much

there are no sky faeries in christianity

gabriel aka hermes aka thoth is included in all regional mediterranian religions

Yeah, listen to this guy: avoid anything that makes you question anything, and just believe it. That's literally the ONLY way to be a true believer in "God".

none of those are faeries either

>God is not a sky faerie as he is pure and magnificent and real.

I know what you're talking about, but doesn't it bother you to not know what started it all?
That was always the little voice bothering me.

But concerning the invisible, spiritual Triple-Powered-One, hear! He exists as an Invisible One who is incomprehensible to them all. He contains them all within himself, for they all exist because of him. He is perfect, and he is greater than perfect, and he is blessed. He is always One and he exists in them all, being ineffable, unnameable, being One who exists through them all - he whom, should one discern him, one would not desire anything that exists before him among those that possess existence, for he is the source from which they were all emitted. He is prior to perfection. He was prior to every divinity, and he is prior to every blessedness, since he provides for every power. And he a nonsubstantial substance, since he is a God over whom there is no divinity, the transcending of whose greatness and beauty ...

Just get on your knees, turn Joel Osteen on the TV and suck that zionist dick like a good shiksa goyim, house nigger... you will be in heaven in no time.

here
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fairy

Mere Christianity by C.S. Lewis
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mere_Christianity

wikilivres.ca/w/images/4/4e/C._S._Lewis_-_Mere_Christianity.pdf

na i met hermes, he loves the cock but he gave me herpes...no gay.

Thoth was one of the Archons also but he was benevolent. He was one who taught us of the true creator.

Thoth is also known as Hermes or Mercury, the son of Enki named Ningishzidda.

Hermeticism is the teaching of this god Hermes. The city of Hermopolis in Egypt is where he was Venerated.

>I want to believe in a creator.

>better ship myself into one of these super-popular and ready-made boxes full of sand-nigger retardation.

I really hope you are trolling and not really this retarded, but I'll ask anyways:

Why is dogma important to your acceptance of our creator?

Read Aquinas' 5 ways

Look into Gnosticism.

Hermes Trismegistus (bad spelling) was the transitional name between the eGypo myth to gReek myth while those two mediteranian cultures were blending.

>omniscience vs free will

Imagine a scenario like multiverse theory in which parallel timelines branch out from a source of origin.

An omniscient being would know every single thing that happens in every single timeline.

But you only get to walk down one. It is your choices and free will that create the reality you live in, independent from the realities in which you chose differently.

Bam, omniscience and free will coexist.

What is your problem with omnipotence?