>The Punisher is, in many ways, a worst case scenario domestic terrorist and mass shooter who, unlike most actual mass shooters, is able to get repeatedly evade being apprehended.
>The Punisher series follows Frank as he continues to track down people connected to the gang violence that ultimately led to his family’s murder, and Frank’s introduction to the MCU has largely framed him as being a tragic antihero driven to darkness by happenstance. But what does it mean when the ostensible hero of a story is willing to go on a seemingly endless shooting spree in order to exact the kind of justice he wants to see in the world?
>Frank’s willingness to kill and his ability to outmaneuver virtually everything in Netflix’s slice of the MCU makes seeing him as a hero, tortured or otherwise, somewhat difficult. He’s usually presented as a hero because he’s waging war against people who do heinous things. But he’s still a killer. A character as objectively twisted and misunderstood as the Punisher doesn’t just need a supporting cast of people who can literally kick his ass. He deserves a story where his dark impulses can serve as a metaphor for how society’s failings create lost souls who think it’s okay to take the lives of others.
Hey, I think that they are completely right. Frank is a villain similar to Scourge. The only thing that makes people think otherwise is that we have a book which revolves around him. Seriously, if Frank had never gotten his own book and never had Ennis, Aaron and others wank him off into only killing people who 'deserved it', then Frank would just have been a crazy mass shooter who served as an example why heroes have a no kill rule.
Jeremiah Kelly
How does he not understand the Punisher?
All he's saying is a mass murderer living down the block from fucking Spider-man is a little unbelievable if the show doesn't touch on it. I'm not reading the rest of it because I won't give them the click on this obviously bait article, but from the excerpt you gave us this guys is less about bashing the Punisher as a character and more about critiquing his existence in a world where at Spidey, Dr. Strange, and even now IF/LC are in the AO.
Levi Cooper
dude hits the nail on the head
Liam Diaz
There are still people who can't understand such a basic character?
Elijah Clark
>Frank’s willingness to kill and his ability to outmaneuver virtually everything in Netflix’s slice of the MCU makes seeing him as a hero, tortured or otherwise, somewhat difficult >seeing him as a hero... somewhat difficult its almost like... he's not a hero
Anthony Hughes
Except for the part where
Thomas Hernandez
>as he continues to track down people connected to the gang violence that ultimately led to his family’s murder
The trailer implied that his family were killed by professionals on purpose because of something Frank did with the CIA.
I hate the idea that Frank's family weren't victims of random violence.
Daniel Price
>Frank’s willingness to kill Most of the MCU Avengers have killed people. People with no real means of defending themselves from the likes of Thor and Hulk.
Daniel Barnes
Someone didn't watch Daredevil season two
I think every Avenger has killed
Josiah Phillips
>Someone didn't watch Daredevil season two You're damn right I didn't, one season was enough.
Hunter Robinson
I could be reading it wrong. But from the context I'm understanding heroes in universe get, for the most part, freedom from other heroes to do their hero stuff. (Except for CW and homecoming). This is why he can't see him as a hero because Frank shouldn't get in universe lee way from supers just because he's troubled.
Blake Rivera
>but he's still a killer! Ironman literally blasts terrorists apart with laser rays and micro missiles. Wolverine has claws that cut through literally everything. Thor smashes and electrifies, and Hulk... well everyone is rightfully afraid of Hulk. Black Widow shoots to kill.
Why is Frank the guy everyone loves to hate?
Zachary Nguyen
>they killed my family to get to me He says this in the new trailer. It *is* heavilly implied that he was directly targeted. It screws with the character motivation, because it gives him a personal target, continuing his crusade as a mission of revenge, instead of killing badguys out of pure spite.
Ryan Bell
His mission has always been out of revenge
Leo Rivera
If they show is about Frank and isn't about the unholy joy of watches his villains be the most heinous people ever it will be shit.
Ennis's MAX series is good because a lot of the focus is on the villains and how utterly dispicable they are as people, but in a fun way. You enjoy being along with them for the ride until they ultimately get Franked, and you're happy they got Franked cause they're too aweful to live.
Sure people will go on about how "deep" Punisher Born is, but in my opinion it's the weakest of Ennis's arcs, with the high point being Barracuda in Florida.
Grayson Martin
The writer is just a gay liberal that does not understand the Punisher. Nothing more, nothing less. More of them will come when Punisher comes out.
Wyatt Reed
only generally, and them being killed by accident reinforces that no crime is victimless in Frank's mind, and gives him further justification to kill criminals beyond muh family
Austin Murphy
That's still revenge for his family's death though
Aiden Richardson
again, only generally. It's like Batman: his family was killed by a criminal and it motivates him to fight crime, but since it was accidental/untargeted, it gives him a broader systemic issue to pit himself against that requires more motivation beyond revenge.
"Revenge" would just cover those directly responsible for his family's deaths, not every criminal ever.
Charles Smith
>He deserves a story where his dark impulses can serve as a metaphor for how society’s failings create lost souls who think it’s okay to take the lives of others.
So they want to read Ennis' Punisher then.
Jonathan Lewis
I think his main point is that Punisher shouldn't be in the MCU
David Gonzalez
As someone who has always thought that the Punisher doesn't make sense in a world full of superheroes, I just want to see some Franking.
John Perry
>He deserves a story where his dark impulses can serve as a metaphor for how society’s failings create lost souls who think it’s okay to take the lives of others. Except Frank doesn't think it's okay to take the lives of others.
Which is a complicated statement but while Frank is a lunatic who believes what he is doing is punishing the fucks of the world, he's doing it while being consciously driven by hate. He's not self righteous about he just fucking hates the evil fucking bastards of the world so goddamn much because they took his family away.
The Punisher isn't the result of society's failings but humanities. Of man and that hate, and greed and selfishness that fucks other people over.
I wish I had reread some of Dixon's stuff recently so I wouldn't go to Ennis's stuff to prove this point but I vaguely remember that being a thing also in those runs.
But for now, since MAX is the most prominent The Cell and the Tyger.
Bentley Garcia
Well Netflix Marvel isn't part of the mcu.
Parker Gray
>Punisher doesn't belong in Netflix
Because his show might actually be good.
Wyatt Ward
>The Punisher is, in many ways, a worst case scenario domestic terrorist and mass shooter who, unlike most actual mass shooters, is able to get repeatedly evade being apprehended. Just like how most superheroes are just violent thugs who the police used as extrajudicial enforcers. Relax you stupid fuckers, it's a superhero show.
Colton Rogers
Except Frank doesn't think killing is ok. He thinks it's necessary, but not moral. That's part of what makes him unique.
That scene with the Question and Luthor in JLU is pretty much Frank in a nutshell. He doesn't advocate violence, but he knows someone has to do it, and he's willing to be that guy. He's an animal of unparalleled impulses, and he knows by directing them in ways no one else will he can clean up the problems no one else can or will. He enjoys murdering criminals, but he doesn't have a high horse for it.
Henry Sanchez
>Except Frank doesn't think it's okay to take the lives of others. >Except Frank doesn't think killing is ok. He thinks it's necessary, but not moral. Yes. But this is a complicated distinction you would only understand if you've actually read a punisher run. I haven't seen the show, but I think we always knew getting some one who does acknowledge that distinction to make the series was a slim chance. And whats worse, even if Franks characterization is dead on there will still be salty butthurt clickbait everywhere. I want to be hype but IronFist has soured me.
Liam Reed
Frank would not be a conservative IRL or he wouldn't completely ignore due process
Robert Carter
>conservatives >caring about due process
Jaxson Wright
Friendly reminder that Punisher fans are the biggest casuals in comics, aside from fans of the teen titans cartoon.
Austin Morales
Gee, io9, it's almost as if that's the fucking point
Parker Morgan
Nice meme, first election for you huh?
Jeremiah Collins
Why do you need an explanation? None of the MCU heroes have half of the knowledge or expertise they'd need to take down the Punisher.
Sebastian Peterson
don't you have a trigger-happy cop playing executioner to defend
Robert Ross
>He deserves a story where his dark impulses can serve as a metaphor for how society’s failings create lost souls who think it’s okay to take the lives of others.
Well, that's...I mean, it's what the chracter does, he literally wrote out the point of the character ands aid that they should make a point out of that.
Nicholas Clark
>implying I'm a conservative
Owen Richardson
I'm pretty sure he's saying a story where Frank goes after a corrupt government organization that specifically targeted his family misses the point of the Punisher
which is correct
Chase Evans
I think it's a case where they don't put enough energy into condemning Frank's actions. Which I kind of get, but that's
Asher Morgan
Oh, it was a Netflix-specific article, I thought he was talking about Punisher in general. Fair enough.
Joshua Brooks
Hes anti hero
Aaron Moore
>he's an antihero >antiheroes do bad and morally reprehensible things >they're often not very good >sometimes they're downright bad
someone stop the presses and alert the president
we have a major breakthrough
Hunter Bennett
Don't you have a college student to falsely accuse of rape?
Aaron Young
>as he mows down people with semi-automatic rifles
Stopped reading here.
James Rivera
I am worried we'll get more moments like the hospital where frank opens fire indiscriminately in a place full of innocents. It was one of the biggest issues I had with him in DD, cause that's not Frank MOD at all.
Jeremiah Young
*method of operation. damn spellcheck.
Matthew Roberts
Reminder Punisher is one of the single most just and heroic individuals in all of Marvel.
Zachary Russell
My disgust is in the author not knowing the difference between semi and auto full auto.
Luis Perry
>worst case scenario domestic terrorist and mass shooter No, that would be someone that kills any and everyone. Frank kills criminals.
Oliver Moore
>still pushing the Netflix-MCU meme Oh that wacky io9.
Dylan Garcia
Sometimes en masse.
Christopher Taylor
This. The Punisher is what happens when the traditional law and justice fail. That's where Punisher comes in. People don't get that because they lack the imagination to think about it. Our "justice" is far from perfect.
Charles Wright
WHY SO MANY GET A CHARACTER AS SIMPLE AS FRANK WRONG? HE´S JUST AN GUNSLINGER FROM A WESTERN LIVING IN THE MU
Joshua Moore
You probably think Judge Dredd was the hero, huh?
Michael Hall
False. He's Paul Benjamin from Death Wish done Marvel style.
Sebastian Evans
Go read/watch Kick-Ass if you want realism. Marvel is escapist fantasy.
Benjamin James
Get out.
Luis Baker
Charles Pulliam Moore is a complete retard, even by the standards of other Gizmodo writers.
Landon Turner
I can't wait for the first ameriburguer shooting people after watching this, and the crash and burn after it.
Jordan Edwards
Literally this.
He's Charles Bronson murdering Lawrence Fishburn with a side of being dumb enough to work for the Jackal.
Cooper Smith
>a worst case scenario domestic terrorist The correct terminology would be vigilante, a person of group acting in a capacity of law enforcement with out any government sanctions. But this is America 2017, every one is a terrorist if it fits the narrative, a year or so ago they were calling the gamergate shit a terrorist movement.