What he has going from him besides being the first Robin and his "ass"? His personality is quite bland compared to the other Robin nor the concept of him is interesting compared to the other heroes.
And does being the "original" is good enough argument about him being better than his successors?
Other urls found in this thread:
titanstower.com
twitter.com
He's got the Barry Allan problem, were in the second you update his personality to modern writing standards then he's accused of not being the original character.
Grayson was the best thing that happened to him and they should have let it delve more into Dicks psyche
Dickbutt xD
What do any of the Robins have over eachother?
>And does being the "original" is good enough argument about him being better than his successors?
No. A lot of characters proved to be much better characters than their predecessors because the writers learn from the mistakes they made with the original.
Not say that there aren't original characters who are better because you have Atem for example who is still better than his successors, but Dick isn't one of them.
>Atem
You mean the one from yugioh? Because I actually agree that no one lived up to him yet. He was really an interesting character with actual flaws.
Charm, Charisma, Leadership abilities. People like Dick. He's a nice guy and so he's popular.
Unfortunately audiences think that the only real personalities are varying degrees of asshole. Superman has this same problem. As does Barry. If you're not a douchebag then you're bland.
Nice persecution complex. Dick is absurdly popular. Go cry wolf somewhere else, Dickfag.
>Nice persecution complex. Dick is absurdly popular.
I suppose you're one of those guys that flips out unless I purple up a post by saying "some people"?
OP is the one saying Dick is bland, I'm just explaining why he's wrong.
Yep. I have recently reread Yu-Gi-Oh manga and I now appreciate Atem even more than before.
The difference between him and Dick that he actually allowed to have flaws and get called out when he messed up. He also doesn't get an empty lip-service because we get shown what makes a lot of characters admire him and was allowed to be surpassed by someone else.
>The difference between him and Dick that he actually allowed to have flaws and get called out when he messed up.
Yeah like how nobody ever calls Dick out for being a manwhore? Except for everybody...
Don't spoiler your posts like a toonfag. And no, nobody calls him out on it.
The fans are the only ones who call him manwhore and they aren't fictional characters.
He's got more going for him than Tim at least.
>Don't spoiler your posts like a toonfag.
Was it autism?
Jason probably has the most potential over the others since he was never good Robin material. History, personality and character development he doesn't follow the the same line as the others do, and doesn't need a Ra's Al Ghul thing to be the reason why he's a scumbag.
So you're a memeposter. Makes sense.
>And no, nobody calls him out on it.
>The fans are the only ones who call him manwhore and they aren't fictional characters.
Nightwing Volume 2, Issue 25, October 1998.
Tim and Dick have a training session where they parkour across a speeding freight train blindfolded that apparently Bruce took Dick on once upon a time. This is right when Spoiler was pregnant, so Tim brings it up in conversation and Dick says that maybe Tim should break up with her since their relationship is going to get more complicated. Tim calls Dick out on the fact that he's a manwhore that's fucked Starfire, Babs, and Helena. Checkmate atheists.
>Unfortunately audiences think that the only real personalities are varying degrees of asshole. Superman has this same problem. As does Barry. If you're not a douchebag then you're bland.
The problem is writers never know how to write nice characters without making them a Mary sues, not that nice people are bland.
>The problem is writers never know how to write nice characters without making them a Mary sues
It must be tough being only able to speak in inaccurate generalizations.
Dick isn't nice, he is a freaking jerk who never get called when he messed up. You can't even point out his flaws since writers don't treat them as flaws which why he is truly bland.
In cape comics? Yes, the majority suffer from this. There is a reason why Superman is being called a Mary sue.
It always cracks me up when Dickfags try to say his only flaw is being a player. Like oh wow Tim just happened to namedrop all the hot women he fucked, poor Dick. Tim wasn't even calling him out, it was banter.
So like how Babs didn't call him out when he fucked her while delivering a wedding invitation?
user, this seriously is even more pathetic example. Try again.
>nope doesn't count!
Jesus this board really is tumblr.
>the only good issue of Nightwing's entire series?
>the one where Tim guest starred
checkmate Dickfags
Dick is a master of cuckoldry.
You mean from the issue that was completely dismissed by every Nightwing fan in existence and was never referenced again? It literally had zero adverse affect on him. They were even still on good terms by the end of the issue. I mean she even writes him a sentimental letter saying how great he is afterwards.
Gimme a fucking break.
Are you kidding? Do you consider Barbara getting mad at Dick for doing what he did to her a "calling out"? He even moved on from this with no consequence and no writer shamed him for this.
Definitely agree with you, man. He went through an actual character growth and really satisfying ending to his story.
>DC gives Barry more personality and people start to like him more
>"HE'S JUST WALLY WITH BARRY'S SKIN"
Don't get me wrong, i like both, but it's still bullshit.
I showed a lot of personality in Grayson, he was playful, quirky and sexy, though it had lot to do with writers and less to do with previous characterization. Still I would say he has much more personality than Jason and Tim. Jason is literally bland brooder and Tim is good with computers? Although I would say Jason is bit more complex than Dick.
One day I'll write a story about nymphomaniac Dick Grayson that will delve into themes of psychosexual development and disorders, Dick's inability to emotionally engage with people he has sex with and attachment issues. It'll be like the movie Shame in some ways, just wait Sup Forums.
>gyppo
Fokin Dropped!
How can a character be blander than other character, but still more complex? That doesn't make any sense because if he is more complex, this obviously make him less bland than him.
You know, the comparison between Atem and Dick made me interested in something.
Which mango/animu characters would you compare to the other Robin?
Well, Jason is interesting case since he has a very complicated history.
As Red Hood, I would compare him to Kaiba and Vegeta because the three of them were supposed be one shot vilian, but their unexpected popularity turned them into anti-heroes with big following. They also have the scumbag badass image who still lose a lot which make them really likable to a lot of people. In term of personality though, they are quite different because Jason isn't arrogant, didn't come from money nor he has a rival who he obsessed with surpassing. I would actually say that he is a lot more complex than them.
For Damian, I would compare him to Killua from HxH because both of them come from famous family of assassins, were trained since birth and the heirs. They also both part of dues (Killua&Gon and Damian&Jon). Though, Killua has more likeable personality than Damian which made him more popular with fans, he doesn't solo people left and right despite being quite strong, act his age despite his messed up family and doesn't has daddy issues because he has a decent relationship with his father.
Not sure about Tim.
Because personality is one thing, looking at a character as a whole is another thing. For example you take Spider-Man and Ozymandias? Who has more noticeable personality? Spidey. But when we evaluate a character we look at a lot of fundamental things like character arc, motivations, philosophy, what drives them and if course personality. This is why I said that Dick has lot more personality or character expression in very merry sense and Jason is bland there but as a whole Jason is more complex.
>Killua&Gon and Damian&Jon
>Killua and Damian (6 letters)
>Gon and Jon
Lmao what a strange coincidence.
I agree with your comparison and one thing I would add is that Killua and Gon relationship is more genuine and fun than Damian and Jon relationship since Killua doesn't belittle Gon and has a lot more respect towards him.
Dude, you post is literally what?
No one going to say Oz is more complex than Spidey because we still don't know anything about his personality or motive. What a strange comparison you making here.
What make a character complex is their personality and their goals, not the idea of them. Jason can't be more complex if he is "bland" in your own words which personally, I think Jason is definitely a complex compared to the robins.
Dick Grayson will continue be bland as long as writers being extremely safe with him instead of trying to show him in different angle.
>Not sure about Tim
What about Takato from Digimon Temers? Since he is supposed to be the normal kid out of the goggles boys.
Not him but I'll argue that a character can have numerous dimensions to them and have intricate motivations and eccentricities but can still come off as bland since they're complexities are not at all interesting nor well thought out. Complexity doesn't make a character more appealing or more interesting. It doesn't even necessarily add worthwhile depth.
Tim wishes he was as cool as Takato.
Tim isn't a normal kid, tho. He is a genius kid who able to figure out Batman's identity and has girls who want to get get in his pants.
Takato was just a normal kid who wanted to spend time with his digimon, but got pulled into a chaos he didn't sign for.
You uploaded the answer to your own question. He's the acrobat.
He's also generally seen as the original side kick and has grown to be a central part of the cape community.
Jason is the wild card and the rebel gunfag
Tim is the boy detective
Damien is the heir of the demon
Steph was the amateur fuck up
>computers
That's more Babs thing than anyone
>reducing these characters to a songle archetypes
>treating the robins like a four piece ensemble like they're the teenage mutant ninja turtles
I'm gonna fucking barf.
Complicated characters and being complex is two different things.
Complex does actually mean depth because it sign of character having a lot more going for them than first meet the eyes.
Complicated characters are the ones who has no clear history or motivation like Donna for example.
So Jason is complicated then.
Jason doesn't have a complicated history nor unclear motivation.
Well he doesn't have depth.
Uh no. Nothing about him is complicated since his history and motivation aren't hard to understand.
He is complex because there's a lot more to him than your first impression of him.
>Complex does actually mean depth because it sign of character having a lot more going for them than first meet the eyes.
No it doesn't user. A character can be complex but due to none of these complexities being developed or more often than not, poorly developed leads to a character that can be just as shallow as a character that's straight forward.
A character doesn't suddenly gain depth just because someone decided to make a character more than meets the eye. They gain depth when these concepts are developed and are clearly nuanced.
It's the simplest way to differentiate them. It was stated that they are copies of each other.
TMNT follows the same classic team dynamic trope as FF and countless others.
Dick > Leo
Jason/Damien > Ralph
Tim > Don
Carrie > Mikey
Fuck you too, user.
I would say he actually does have an unclear motivation, because truly what motivated him to be Red Hood?
He does because he actually went through a character growth and has a different side to him than just a ruthless guy who shot people.
>got pulled into a chaos he didn't sign for
Yeah, he had it pretty rough.
His anger at system, Batman and the joker.
>he actually went through a character growth
Which was what?
Batman Inc. and Rebirth
There's a lot to all of these characters. Most heroes have a history of fucked up things happening to them that if interpret a certain way could be seen as a grandiose character arc.
What you describing is called "potential", not complexity. Some characters have a good concepts which give them potential to be really interesting characters, but their writers fail to deliver.
Then Jason has a lot of potential as a character.
I'm not some HUGE Nightwing fan but I enjoy his presence in a book. Here are some things that make me like him:
- He's got a great dynamic with Damian and played a huge role in that character's growth and arc, which is one of the best in all of comics.
- He's got a great "legacy" vibe, wherein a character actually grew from their original role. We see this a lot in comics but rarely does it work and "click" when a character tries to do his own thing and it actually sticks.
- He's lighthearted, but not to a fault where he can ruin the tone of the book.
- Fantastic costume design. Like cmon. This is indisputable.
- Love his acrobatic style of fighting. Love the whole acrobat motif and how it plays into the themes of his stories, even though it gets used too much. Shit like "I live without a safety net, get it because I was in the circus as a kid?"
Nightwing is dope
What happened to him in Batmam Inc.?
He has, but his writers did actually deliver.
And you just reaching.
You are really fucking stupid and multiplicity of your stupidity is exhuming from that argument.
First off, only a capeshitter would argue that Spider-Man is more complex than Ozy. Your argument is literally quantity and your reading of Watchmen is laughable.
Second, characters are multidimensional, although if you've only read capeshit, you won't understand that. There's so much more to a character than personality and motives, like I said before. There are multiple levels on we perceive a character and if all you look for is personality and motives, your readings and understanding of the media you consume in very shallow.
>his writers did actually deliver.
Did they?
>you're just reachong.
Am I?
>liking things
Get a load of this fucking guy.
Calm down, triggered troll. I think he mistaken Oz from the rebirth mystery.
>There are multiple levels on we perceive a character and if all you look for is personality and motives, your readings and understanding of the media you consume in very shallow
Not sure if idiot or just trolling.
How the fuck am I trolling?
Yeah user, we can easily tell how you are absolutely not a HUGE fan of him.
Every character has potential. You can add as much as you want to a character to make them complex and to seem deep but they will remain shallow if what was added was a half baked idea or was what the writer believed to be actual depth and nuance when in reality it's a tired old cliche or recycled archetype. A complex character is not necessarily a deep one. A deep chracter is well thought out.
Didn't a lot of Nightwing's character growth came from Wolfman's New Teen titans?
Yes, you are actually the prefect example of someone reaching hard. Just look at your posts.
He's the center of the dcu.
titanstower.com
I don't think it's a reach to say that Red Hood is a not a very well thought out character.
He has potential but that potential won't be realized till they go back to square one and ask themselves why Jason Be the Red Hood.
Meant for
When he was initially conceptualized he had strong motivations, now it's like "who the fuck cares, let's have him shoot up baddies."
He grew past his red hood angst and became a hero alongside batman once more.
It was ignored by the other nu52 books of the time.
>Every character has potential
Not true. There are characters who are just created for one purpose and their concept isn't good enough to do more with them.
And then, there are characters who have good concepts and have the potential to be really interesting if they got good enough writer who can handle them.
>Not true. There are characters who are just created for one purpose and their concept isn't good enough to do more with them.
Such as?
The problem is that Winnick never had an answer to the question he was asking.
>that Red Hood is a not a very well thought out character
He is because if he wasn't, he wouldn't be here having his own book instead of being a random vilian who show up time to time.
Red Hood has a good enough concept that allowed the writers to more than him and his motivation is getting ride of crimes.
>to more than him
*to do more with him.
>now it's like "who the fuck cares, let's have him shoot up baddies."
read rebirth instead of shitposting
>why Jason Be the Red Hood
He became a vigilante because he wants to fight crimes. He took the red hood mantle because he wanted to take something from the joker the same he took something from him and to give the middle finger to Batman.
It's hard for anyone to figure out why he become Red Hood if you just bothered to read his stories.
>It's hard
I think you mean not hard, but yeah. I agree with you that his motivation to become Red Hood is obvious enough to understand from just reading his books.
He's edgy? Teens like edgy.
Dick is more a mix of Leo and Mikey. He is the most outgoing of all the Robins.
Good list, user.
Not him, but I read the Red Hood Rebirth one-shot, and it sucked.
>hurr you have to keep reading durr
Fuck you, the ENTIRE REASON those one-shots were released was to entice new readers, I went in wanting to be pleasantly surprised, but it was just more of the same shit. Don't let Jasonfags fool you, he's never had a book that was more than mediocre.
Sure, user. You sound very rational person that one should definitely listen you.
The number one thing I truly dislike about him is how they trun every character into a fangirl of him (even freaking Superman) despite the fact that there's nothing about him that worth the level of admiration he keep getting.
His look and the lip-service he got are the only things he got because without, his character is literally nothing.
You made me miss Yugioh, user.
IT'S TIME TO D-D-DUAL!
Most of his character growth came from his split with Batman and subsequently burying the hatchet with him. I suggest Batman: Prodigal for that. A lot more comes from having to be Batman in Batman and Son and the Black Mirror story arc where it's shown that just because he's happier than most heroes doesn't mean he's stupid.
He's charismatic and good at making friends, but he hasn't changed from being impulsive or thinking the world revolves around him. Good writers capitalize on this, bad writers as you say make him kind of a Mary Sue. But at the core, there's nothing wrong with his character. Like others have said, don't mistake not being dark or edgy as bad character.
>He's charismatic
He is? Because I really don't find charming which why he seems too bland to me.
Yeah, he is. In nearly every crossover or other hero's book he's in, if it's a good writer he can pretty easily build a rapport with them. He fits into nearly every genre of DC book and interacts well with nearly every hero without being written too differently, as is the case with quite a few other heroes in the DC universe. He's also quite the competent leader, I mean pretty much nearly every fan agreed he was GOAT as Batman and in the Justice League.