X-Thread

What is your favorite era of X-men? I personally have a fondness for the transitional period from Mutant Massacre, all the way to the end of Inferno.

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tapatalk.com/groups/marvelmasterworksfansite/chris-claremont-s-proposed-plans-for-the-early-90s-t29949.html
youtube.com/watch?v=vNRr16UAG_k
secretsbehindthexmen.blogspot.com/2012/08/taking-x-men-to-extreme.html
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70s and morrison. Wanted to read post schism.

Early ultimate xmen.

bump

Is any of Claremont's post-2000 stuff worth reading? I've read a few issues right before House of M, after Laura joined and Psylock came back from the dead but wasn't all that great. Is X-Treme any good?

I got myself recently Remender's Uncanny X-Force (1-7 I think). What am I in for?

because of how old i was at the time... as far as X-Men goes the 90's Claremont/Lee renumber/boot/whatever, is my #1 it was the absolute best shit to me as a young kid. Especially when combined with the Fox animated series and the toybiz action figs.

Marvel/Hasbro has done alot of the 90s era Xmen as Legends figs, I wish i had the money to get a team of em, or at least Cyclops and Wolverine

went on a bit of a tangent there, kinda baked.

Morrison all through out the 2000’s. Enjoyed the messiah saga. Even kinda liked schism upuntil “JEEEAAAN!” AvX was garbage as well as everything thereafter. Bendis was such trash and it’s a shame because he had a really good set up to do a lot more. X-Men is pretty much dead. Cyclops’ and Wolverine’s deaths were sadly underwhelming.
I mostly like the 2000’s because of all the character development. Everyone seemed to have matured.
It’s a shame we never got a new uncanny x-men team with QQ, the Cuckoos, idie, pixie, hope, x23 and so on. It seems we’re just doomed to continue to circle back around to the 90’s cartoon.

Late 80's until the Age of Apocalypse.

Giant-Size X-Men #1/Uncanny X-Men #94 all the way to Uncanny X-Men #201 (a roughly ten-year period that solidified the property's status in the genre). Looking back, it really felt like Claremont was building towards something during this era, which would have culminated with Magneto's redemption, Cyclops finally "graduating" from the X-Men and finding happiness after the tragedy of the Dark Phoenix Saga, and the "All-New, All-Different" X-Men (Storm, Wolverine, Colossus, Nightcrawler) leading the next generation of X-Men (the New Mutants + Rogue, Rachel Summers, Kitty Pryde, etc.).

Too bad it was all derailed with the editorially-mandated creation of X-Factor and the whole "one major X-crossover every year to inflate sales" policy (which eventually infected the larger Marvel publishing slate, a plague that still exists today).

There are still some decent X-Men comics and storylines post-Uncanny X-Men #201, of course, but I think of that period as the essential, culturally relevant era of the X-Men.

I do agree that X-factor started out really rough, but it really came into its own following Simonson's inclusion.

The two-issue X-Men tie-in to Chaos War was okay.
So was the Nightcrawler book.

That's all I got.

Ultimate X-Men, yes, especially when in conjunction with other Ultimate titles - the X-Men were important but not suffocatingly so. And the unique costumes with singular color scheme really worked for the team, even if I ultimately prefer truly unique costumes overall.

It's good, especially if you're more a fan of '90 - '05 X-Men. It's some of the best writing that Wolverine and Deadpool have had in decades. I could do without the Psylocke wank though.
X-Treme is not essential by any stretch but it's worth a read if you can tolerate peak-soap/fetish Claremont. Larroca drew some sexy x-babes.

seriously. Great cheesecake in this run.

lifeguard is an underrated x-waifu too

Nothing sexier than digital inks directly over pencils.

>from Mutant Massacre, all the way to the end of Inferno

Yeah If I can't just say Claremont as a whole it would be this

nothing sexier than Storm in a school uniform

ok I'm done

what the fuck this kitty lmao
any pics of this costume on panels?

I fucking love this series.

agreed. I liked the run, definably not as good as his old stuff but it's fun.

Outback era and Blue team book were my favorite.

agreed and Inferno was amazing.

I'd say Claremont and Simonson's New Mutant runs have some essential reading. It has lows but Demon Bear and Inferno were great

It's actually the best Kitty has been written since Claremont in his old days. Seems only he can write her.

unfortunately by the time she was in X-Treme Larroca was only doing covers.
Agreed. Kitty never recovered from Astonishing, which I think is like two months after this issue.

yeah but Kordey did the Prisoner of Fire run and it had just as much cheesecake and beefcake. The setting was on a beach so none of the men even bother with shirts and the women don't wear much more

from the first few pages of the trade

...

Kordey gets shit on for the fill-in work he had to do on early New X-Men but he's a truly underrated talent from that era of Marvel.

I really dislike early digital coloring

a lot of artists need growing time Claremont said that no one took Larroca until he worked with him on X-men

it's a little better on Kordey's Cable work, but yeah. Certain artists shine better under what I call "Vertigo flats."

...

Hard for me to believe that looking at her dressed slutty. She's the most innocent member of the team, I don't think he understands her at all.

The Magneto Era. I like the entire arc with him being repentant and doing everything he can to prove that he's reformed and live up to the responsibility Xavier granted but not being up to the pressure and his gradual slide back into villainy as he tries to do the right thing.

Morrison era would be next after that though not New X-Men proper since I've always felt Morrison ever really liked/got the X-Men and his run is basically a pretentious deconstruction of the franchise because of it. That said I do like the idea of the explosion in the mutant population and making them an actual cultural group. The X-books at the time reflecting that with a wide variety of stories (high school drama, entertainment/celeb culture satire, crime drama, spy thriller, etc.) is nice and couldn't have been done without that set up.

And it's not an era but I really like X-Men 2099. A group of pepole with only vague notions of an ideal in mind fucking around a grimy, apocalyptic wasteland as they try to find that ideal and themselves is some good stuff. The latter year or so of the title isn't quite as good but those first 25 or so issues are great.

I like early '90s X-Men. Not saying it's the greatest stuff ever but the '90s cartoon got me into comics in the first place so '90s stuff will always have a nostalgic place in my heart. Late-'90s was a good time for the ancillary books IMO. Not as sure about Excalibur because I've never cared for it but X-Force under JFM and GenX under Faerber are good and Deadpool during that time frame is great.

>most innocent
not after so many writers waifued her so hard. She hasn't been innocent since the late 80s or early 90s

Did Claremont always intend for the "Tessa was really Sage, a secret student of Xavier's planted to spy on the Hellfire Club" thing? Like are there actual hints or is that something he just decided on after comic back?

>kitty
>innocent

kek. consider this as bad influence form other girls + teenager 'crisis'

Tentalisto is Claremont at the height of his wonderful perversion.
>Claremont doesn't understand Kitty Pryde
He wrote the first eleven years of her. You don't know what you're talking about.
Kitty from Astonishing X-Men onward is not the same character. She is now being written by the generation of men that grew up with her and as a result is a weird anima-muse-waifu character.

>-Tessa in the Hellfire Club is not under the Shadow King’s control and was a spy for Xavier
tapatalk.com/groups/marvelmasterworksfansite/chris-claremont-s-proposed-plans-for-the-early-90s-t29949.html
He had the "Tessa is a spy for Xavier" plan since at least '91 when he was plotting out the buildup to #300.

2000 to 2012 when AvX started, and then Marvel NOW happened. Though Cable's X-Force with Hope, Marrow and a few others was pretty good. I want off this 5 year downward spiral.

Young, old, bitter, happy, etc.

We can all join together in mocking Sage.

How many can YOU name, true believer?

>people seriously think the 90's were worse than the modern era.

>Wolverine resurrected as an assassin by The Hand
Enemy of the State 13 years earlier.

I wonder if there's anything else like that for stuff from the '90s. I know of Lobdell's original plan for M and Penance and what he wanted to do with the X-Men after Operation: Zero Tolerance and that for whatever reason Marvel wouldn't let him use Sabra as a full-time X-Man.

Lobdell is my favorite X-Men writer

Also from reading that thread I guess Claremont's plans for the X-Men comes down to "Shadow King was behind everything".

I like X-Men most from Days of the Future Past to when Claremont stops writing New Mutants. Something like 1981-1987

And from Morrison to the end of Gillens Uncanny X-Men, so 2001-2012

The only things I like from the 90s is X-Factor, Age of Apocalypse, and the first 2 years of Generation X.

I dont consider Inferno to have been good, and deaging (and later killing) Magik was a terrible mistake. I do like X-Tinction Agenda.

I dislike 80s X-Factor completely. And think New Mutants stopped being good completely once it was dropped by Claremont. Cannonball hasnt been interesting ever since, and Dani Moonstar kinda went to waste as a character.

pic related God tier cover

Claremont/Cokrum/Byrne/Cockrum through to the end of the Brood saga.

I see no problem with this.

I think this isnt fully canon, as in, there are cameos of dead characters here.

Wow, looks like they skipped the inking stage and just colored pencils.

District X. Mutant Police Drama was actually perfect.

what is the overall voice now a days with regards to the Jim Lee Era, Fatal Attractions, and God Loves, Man Kills?
I barely started reading men seriously after the whole disappearance in MVC.

What happened to the Neal Indian guy of XTreme Xmen who was also in the Morrison issue where they visit a destroyed Genosha and find Polaris?

He wasnt depowered by Wanda, but still, hasnt been seen this decade. Must be that he has no fans. IIRC for some reason he called himself Thunderbird.
Here he made it to the group photograph, btw, ill never not be mad at Pietro no longer being Magneto's son, it retroactively ruined a lot of comics like this one

Oh I'm not saying it's bad and reading what Claremont originally wanted it makes sense. Shadow King is behind Mystique being a terrorist having driven her insane. Shadow King is fueling anti-mutant hysteria and trying to drive the world towards the DoFP timeline and you get to Uncanny #300 and the X-Men and their enemies unite to drive him off in what would've been a more proper way to (probably) end Claremont's run.

Claremont was only supposed to be off New Mutants for 6 months to launch Excalibur but then more books piled up and he figured there was no point in going back which sucks. I think Weezie's a horrendously overrated writer. She absolutely killed New Mutants and X-Factor wasn't good either.

I agree with you. It is funny how Wolfsbane ended up being the only New Mutant who was in good long runs and got character development.

The Sunspot of Ewing who is a businessman chessmaster always 5 steps ahead who can beat an evil Reed Richards seems so out of character to me that it's basically a new character. And the moral ambiguity of Magik has been completely lost for 5 years, now she is just an heroic cute waifu who teleports.

And Cannonball has been boring since Claremont left New Mutants. Perhaps he should have become Smasher of the Shi Ar Imperial Guard.

Do you have an example of a "vertigo flat"?

Reading that Masterworks thread, something that's brought up is Claremont's use of second-stringers and building them up over time to make them credible and I realize that's true. Long gone are the days where you could introduce a minor character like Amanda Sefton and build them up into an important player.

Everything in comics now (well in general but we'll limit it to comics) is about instant gratification. Slow, long term plotting at Marvel isn't really a thing anymore. There's no incentive to see what happens next and plots are so paint by numbers nowadays that you know where things are going as soon as the set up start, the only "surprises" being what stupidity is going to go down to keep the story going and what characters will die. Claremont's X-Men could never happen in modern Marvel.

80's Cartoon /Thread

Samefagging but I should say slowly. Now you just get books filled with new characters that are expected to succeed right of the gate. Some times you get ones like Kamala or X-23 who the company actively wants to succeed so they get bumped up and pushed fairly quickly. They might get a small couple page story in whatever one shot bridges that year's event and next year's status quo but that's it.

Even Generation X had the Phalanx Saga to get people into the characters.

I collected and enjoyed all of 141 (days of future past) through 247 (siege perilous / master mold). It had some GREAT stuff and some rough spots (when the comic went bi-weekly). I started collecting at age 11 and kept going all the way to 260 and stopped there 'cause I thought Psilocke being asian was retarded. Well, it was more than that. The team was literally not a team for over a year. It was a terrible writing / editing decision and I walked over to DC comics at that point for a long stint.

You mean this failed pilot?
youtube.com/watch?v=vNRr16UAG_k

Bunn strangely used Mondo recently in X-Men Blue, and will use him again in a few months in a time travel story (his x-men will fight 2099 xmen in the future, and generation x in the past)

the possibility of a future writer picking up a forgotten donut steel from years ago exists

Yeah, but rarely are they developed, and mostly just background noise. Most writers nowadays either characterfag popular faves or push their pet character.

What's the context? I haven't been reading Blue because of my hatred for the O5 even though I think Bunn's been the low key best writer the X-Men have had since Gillen at least.

The time travel arc does have me interested though just to see how he'll handle the 2099 X-Men. I'm guessing "time travel" we'll get a team that has everyone (including Bloodhawk but probably not Tina) and Tim having his corpse paint too even though there's really no time in the original series where that could have happened. If I see codenames for anyone but Meanstreak and Krytalin though I'm out.

what the fuck is Firestar doing there

there was a mutant republic around San Francisco the (6 weeks iirc) during which Secret Empire happened in Universe. Xorn (puppet of Emma who controlled him with an infinity gem), Emma, Shaw and Beast were the leaders.

Many non evil mutants were there, Magick and Archangel for sure, Psylocke too iirc.
It seems like Firestar was a field leader.

The blue team attacked a telepathic reeducation camp for disenters, people who were going to have their minds changed for thinking different (they dont explain what it means but it is implied they refused to recognize the New Tian government or wanted to attack the USA of Hydra Captain America)

Nothing makes much sense because X-Men editors and rest of Marvel editors treat Emma Frost differently. Emma was a villain in the Blue Secret Empire tie in and an antihero in the proper Secret Empire books.

Eh, I lile Ewing's Cannonball pretty well, and hopefully he should get more focus in the next arc. Also, I've heard he was good in Avengers World?

Angelica working with Emma
my eye just started twitching

Emma has been a mess since IvX, it seems like they're trying to turn her into a villain again

...

They somewhat buried the hatchet years ago in GenX. GenX was in New York, Leech and Artie run off and are found at Avengers Mansion where Emma tells Firestar about how she's changed and Firestar reluctantly gives Emma the benefit of the doubt but tells her if she steps out of line then Firestar will bring the Avengers down on her.

Muh dick man

Everyone does

Is there any mutant whose mutant powers or abilities allows her to do this?

late 70s > mid 70s > early 80s > late 80s > early 90s > late 60s > mid 80s > mid 90s > mid 60s

Morrison > all

t.pleb

Morrison's X-Men is the product of a guy who absolutely does not like the X-Men.

Whedon's run is what got me into them, that will always be special.

blue/gold relaunch up to onslaught. that's when i started getting into x-men.

but claremont's run was better.

first issue of Animal Man under Vertigo.
secretsbehindthexmen.blogspot.com/2012/08/taking-x-men-to-extreme.html
There's some stuff about Thunderbird III in these interviews. He just fizzled.
>acknowledging the superior back half of the 60's era
tasteful, my man.

and since this is an X-thread I'll give a bachalo example. the gradients were a lot more tasteful and the colorist doesn't try to render muscles and shadows with such resolution.

This. People who like Morrison's run the most, generally don't like X-men to begin with.

I like Morrison when he's actually focusing on the X-Men, but I really can't stand the new characters he created Quentine Quire, Fantomex, Xorn, Beak and Angel's whole weird ass relationship, that shitty muslim girl. All the other random students that never did anything. I don't understand why people like them.

Cuckoos were probably the only original characters of his I like.

I like the new characters but the X-Men line at the time was a mess and NXM has aged poorly as a result. On the one hand, it's great that the books weren't crossing over twice a year anymore, but on the other, NXM rereads really benefit from a concurrent reading of a contemporary title like X-Statix or one of the other "core" books like Uncanny or X-Treme. Or one of the more obscure titles. The x-men universe in the Morrison era is really rich and I hate that NXM overshadows it all so often

People like them because they were just kids with weird powers that might not even be that useful or ever become X-men, instead of being OCs hyped to be next overpowered omega level mutants with super model looks who almost immediately run around the world kicking ass like they were combat hardened veterans. Basically Cyper without Warlock and before he was turned into a combat efficient "movement is language so I can anticipate and dodge all attacks" character.

It also helped that they were a diverse cast that acted like bratty teenagers, some were full blown assholes like Glob Herman or the basilisk kid, Beak was a mutant who still ended up being a loser because he was in a mutant school where his powers sucked compared to everyone else, Quintin was an insecure teen who went through an identity crisis, used drugs and at the peak of his teen rebellion tried to run down the school, only to be revealed it was all just to impress a girl he liked.

And Fantomex was cool pastiche character of all the tropes of master thieves put into one.

Sentinel was too sweet for this world

you obviously haven't read Generation X, it's better in every single way

Paul Smith Era to Mutant Massacre. Issue 213 is my cutoff pretty much, although I do like the Brood on earth and first Genosha stories in the Silvestre era.

As far as the New Mutants go, issue 14 to 50 is peak IMO

GenX was derailed by crossover continuously and it never really was the same after Lobdell left. And Morrison's kids were more relatable since they were just kids at a achool, not running on adventures all the time.

...

For me that era definitely ended with the departure of JRJR, with 207-210 being a climax of sorts.

In my headcannon, 213 is a bitter-sweet jumping off point, with Psylocke joining the X Men after the mutant massacre decimation of the classic line-up.

"Welcome to the team" indeed

>tfw Claremont was setting up for /ss/ between her and Cypher

That boy got a raw deal in the end.

247 was the last issue I remember buying back in the day. My enthusiasm steadily trailed off through the Silvestri era, with Inferno pretty much killing the book for me.

I found the Betsy/Doug thing hot as hell when I was a kid

X-men villains that created in that time didnt have solid motive for their villainy. There are group of immortal mutants that never did jackshit then they're all killed by selene, edgy man in that pic infected mutants with deadly virus just for giggles and hellfire club killing mutants for some game with unexplainable prize.

Then m-day happened