State reasons why you hate him or like him

...

He's better than Jesus, because when he sacrifices himself he doesn't know he'll be coming back.

I like him because of stuff like the Superman/Hitman crossover and All-Star Superman. Stuff like when he says that we don't need to be super men, just good men.

But . . . I hate him for the same reason. It's stupid, and I'll admit this straight up, but thinking about how good someone like Superman and how much of a piece of human garbage I am just makes me glad he isn't real.

I love Superman.

He's more than just a superhero, he's an ideal, he's a motivation for you to try and improve and be a better person.
I also love when he punches niggas into space.

>He's better than Jesus, because when he sacrifices himself he doesn't know he'll be coming back.

You could say to any hero. Jesus was torture to death to prove himself.

He's in many ways The Superhero Archetype.
I like him, just not enough to really read much of his stuff.

Superman is great when he is a character and awful when he is an excuse for Morrison to have yet another self-congratulatory wank about how cape comics are ideally the most ideal ideal.

Not any hero comes back.
Superman died to save us all from Doomsday user, Jesus got bodied by some romans

Becauze he must first be hobbled in order for interesting story to ensue: SuperBore. He was a John Carter ripoff so he'll never be as good as the original.

Boring as fuck, and yes I've read all the dumb shit about CA and Doomsday

This.

Jesus didn't now it either, you casual.
Seems like someone has to hit the bible again.

He isn't homosexual and sucking my balls, one at a time going back and forth, forcing pre-cum out of my cock.

Love him.

Every Superman hater is, invariably, an edgefag or weeaboo.

He's optimism made manifest.

I like the pulpy sci-fi plots that are part of his mythos, like his most dangerous nemesis being a cyborg alien scientist that shrinks and bottles cities, or a good chunk of his villains being clones of him or him from another universe or something, or the Superman Robots, or the Fortress of Solitude.

I disagree, because I hated SuperBore as a child, in comics and then movies. I must have been the Edgiest nine year old Edgelord evah, by your rationale.

>Not any hero comes back.

You are talking about fucking superman. He always come back!

much monotony typically like i'm super powerful and i don't had debilities xdxdxd

As our planet nears human extinction, his backstory is starting to seem vaguely relevant.

>I must have been the Edgiest nine year old Edgelord evah, by your rationale.
Yes, you must have been.

Not even gonna ask which heroes do you like.

I like the guy. He is nice, decent and could punch a planet into dust. I like the guy.

I used to love him, but then I realized he's just a fictional character used by writers to tell us who to vote for. So he doesn't matter. Cool powers I guess.

I love him a lot if he's written by a weiter who knows what his persona really is. He's man who just want to help people out of kindness and he's more down to earth than people give him credit for.

I hate him if he's written by people who only thinks he's just super strong with laser eyes fighting giant monsters and shit without caring about anything else. That or try to make him NotBatman

His struggles are largely external, and such stories aren't interesting to me.

In the 90s Superman series, the Dead Cain version of the character once said

>Clark Kent is who I am. Superman is what I can do.

I love that kind of Superman.

His stories are more often than not boring. The solutions to probably are always obvious and simple for him to do. Most of his fights are just Michael Bay smash-ups. He has a few good highlights but only because of the huge amount of published material for him.

>Dead

*Dean

He has some great stories, but i don't care much for the character itself.

I like him because he represents that standard everyone should strive for: To be the best they can be, but to remain humble and responsible. To help when you can just because you want to, not for glory or self satisfaction. To be the others look to when something happens, to be their beacon and hope and understand the weight of it.

That's all well and good but other heroes do that too and are also interesting characters.

Used to hate him when I was an edgy teenager but he's my favorite now.

>everyone who hates Superman is a bad person
This is why I actually don't like Superman, I enjoy the character well enough but the dogma that surrounds the character is a little too thick for me sometimes. Plus Wonder woman do all the shit he does plus boobs yet I don't see anyone claiming if you don't like her you are a bad person. Hell most superheroes represents that standard everyone should strive for so that's just not an argument.

he imbalances any single teamup. think how much better the DC verse would be without him. Try not to think of how Superdud could have solved any given problem faster. Wait, lets send Aquaman instead, thought no one ever.

Don't feel bad, user. The name "Dead Cain" sounds cool.

Edgefags and weeaboos aren't bad people. Cringe, maybe, but not bad

What Captain America can do that Thor can't?

I love Superman, he is the most genuine hero in all of comic books. A majority of all other heros from both Marvel and DC decided to do good for personal reasons. For most, it is a form of therapy, or a role thrust upon them. But with Superman, he chose to be a hero. Superman could have done anything with his powers, yet he chose to be a hero because he believes that humanity is inherently good but they just need a push in the right direction. What they needed was someone to be an example of how to act, and what better person than one with great powers? Shit like that just speaks to me as a person.

/thread

>Why i like him

Bacause he has a simple, but powerfull concept.

>Why i hate him

Because Superfags are rabid faggots that will only accept comics that put him in the same situation over and over and a are the maximum scum of capeshit killing comics, they will describe his qualities but will just wank for runs that appeal for the nostalgia of the era when he didn't had any of this quality.

They don't want a character to inspire people to be better even though he can be defeated, be wrong or be flawed. They want a imaginary friend to make up for their shitty lifes

>State reasons why you hate him or like him
Superman has never impressed me, not even in the tender age of 7 when I first saw his first movie. Sure it was entertaining for the runtime but I found the character dreadfully uninteresting in the long run.

Too much of a goody-two shoes. He's too perfect, too nice, too invincible.
The literal definition of a Mary Sue.
So perfect and powerful they had to invent a maguffin of a weakness in a little green rock and that really pisses me off because they couldn't bring themselves to give him a realistic weakness that wasn't completely made up and pulled out of their ass.
Superman is as overbloated with superpowers as if an 8 year old had been asked what he would like his perfect superhero to be like;
>"ooh ooh oooh and he should have laser heat vision eyes!! And ice breath!! A-a-and he should fly! And X-ray vision!! That'd be neato!"
He loses all humanity and any hopes of me relating to him when he doesn't have any flaws or non-maguffin weaknesses.

I always preferred more human characters who had real weaknesses and human flaws because that's how humans are. Power corruption. Thirst for revenge. Conflict because of the loss of loved ones. Not always being perfect and not always knowing exactly what to do to fix a situation.

But that's just, like, my opinion, man.

>implying kids aren't edgelords

>The literal definition of a Mary Sue.
But that's not the literal definition of a Mary Sue, nor is Superman any of those things.

Matter of fact, Captain America and Black Panther fit the definition of Mary Sue better than Superman, and neither of them are.

No, supes defenitely is a sue.

Love Superman, But I hate the other fans sometimes.

No he's a Clark.

He's a dick

this

Well what I'm trying to say is that he's way too perfect and idealized.

When you literally have to pull a maguffin out of your ass to be his one and only weakness because you can't bring yourself to give him any realistic conflict and faults we obviously have a fundamental problem with your character

Well, then so are Captain America and Black Panther.

Plus both Captain America 1 - Have no weaknesses whatsoever, 2 - Win fights they should obviously lose without any explanation, and 3 - are "world's smartest strategist" and "world's smartest man". Three big Mary Sue qualities that the two have, but Superman lacks.

>because you can't bring yourself to give him any realistic conflict and faults we obviously have a fundamental problem with your character
Which isn't true. Supes has foes more powerful than him and conflicts that can't be solved by punches. But you wouldn't know.

Except the captain does have weaknesses. They've been outsmarted and overpowered constantly.
The captain is not a superpowered unbeatable alien that nothing on earth can hurt other than one specific maguffin, he's actually quite beatable despite winning fights he shouldn't sometimes.

You're talking out of your ass now.

"If supes is then they are" isn't a valid line of logic. We can argue whether they are or not, but supes is much more so than them and him being one doesn't make them one too.

I hate company war bullshit, that comes even when the other company isn't mentioned.

>Except the captain does have weaknesses.
So does Superman

>They've been outsmarted and overpowered constantly.
So have Superman.

>The captain is not a superpowered unbeatable alien that nothing on earth can hurt other than one specific maguffin
Nor is Superman.

>he's actually quite beatable despite winning fights he shouldn't sometimes.
Just like Superman, than.

Except for the fact that it is way more common to see Superman losing against the likes of Mongul, Zod or Metallo, than seeing Captain America losing at all. In fact, Captain America just won a battle against another supersoldier armored with an Iron Man armor and powered by a reality warping device. Using only his fists.

What a Mary Sue!

If they have more Mary Sue qualities than Superman, they are obviously bigger Mary Sues.

Snyder is lame, why do heroes have to be emotional wrecks or have flaws to be relatable? There's a reason you're not saving the day user.

>If
Okay but that's the point of discussion. Beginning with the assumption that there are is disingenuous.

Okay, I'm sorry for the "if".

"Since" they have more Mary Sue qualities than Superman, they are obviously bigger Mary Sues.

Nice sources there. If you really think capn' has been beaten as often as superman you're delusional. Civil war, infinity gauntlet, "hail Hydra", every major event he's in he loses. Supes is the clear Mary Sue.

He hasn't any weaknesses in power besides cryptonite, thus writers HAVE to put him on the situation where his morals will be questioned. And that takes a really good writer.

Ok, I'm not going to have this argument with you. You're already sure you're right.

Fuck off with your company war shitposting you faggot.

christ almighty this shit thread got shittier

It was a thread on Sup Forums asking for 2 opposite opinions, this was bound to happen.

>Civil War
Cap was WINNING when he gave up fighting.
>Infinity Gauntlet
What did you expect, to see him beating an omnipotent Thanos? Not even Cap writers would stretch his Sueism that much.

>Secret Empire
Now you are just being dumb.

He literally won against another supersoldier powered by an Iron Man armor and a cosmic cube using only his fists. No explanation was given. He won because he is Captain America and fuck yeah!

DC doesn't know what to do with him. They put mediocre writers on him all the time and he's always been crossover bait. When was the last time he even had a great long run? He's in need of some fresh blood and fresh ideas, but DC would want to squeeze nostalgia bucks from him.

>cap was winning Civil War
You don't remember him being beaten to a pulp, chained up, bloody and lost, and his infamous speech telling Tony he lost morally anyways? Dude lost hard.

>What did you expect?
I expected him to lose because he's not a Mary Sue. Do you know what a Mary Sue is or is it just a buzzword to you?

>he literally won
The fight wasn't the point in SE, the point is his character wasn't perfect and he had serious flaws and compromises. Something a Mary Sue wouldn't have.

i used to think he was boring and overpowered and that made him pointless. but ive grown to love the part of his character where he IS so powerful that he IS aware of all of the wrong going on in the world and (i guess) could go and fix it but is basically in a constant internal conflict of letting certain things go on because it's in humanities best interest for him NOT to go around fixing everything. idk if im making sense but if someone else could link or expand on what i'm trying to say i'd appreciate it.

>When was the last time he even had a great long run?
Some would say he is having one right now.

Those who disagree would say that his last good run was Pak's (three years ago). And those who disagree with this would say Morrison's run (5 years).

Better situation than Black Panther, Iron Man, Spider-Man, Wolverine...

Another big problem I have with Superfag is his 7 year old brainstorm of a superpower bloat clusterfuck.

First he was more powerful than a locomotive and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound.

OH NOW HE CAN FLY
>"um, ok"

OH NOW HE SHOOTS LASER BEAM HEAT VISION
>"what?"

OH NOW HE CAN FREEZE SHIT WITH HIS BREATH
>"fucking seriously?"

NOW HE HAS X-RAY VISION!
>"???"

NOW HE CAN SHOOT LITTLE SUPERMEN OUT OF HIS FINGERS (look this up I'm not making it up)
>"ok I'm done with this shit"

Bleh.
Superman is with superpowers like Batman is with having shark repellent in his utility belt

Fuck your mary sue of an overpowered fag

>He literally won against another supersoldier powered by an Iron Man armor and a cosmic cube using only his fists. No explanation was given. He won because he is Captain America and fuck yeah!

1. That isn't captain america
2. cosmic cube was broken.
3. He have been shown to beat tony stark in his armor suit before.

>This is what DC fags actually believe

>he lost morally
Fuck off.

>Do you know what a Mary Sue is or is it just a buzzword to you?
Really big coming from you.

Superman loses way more often than Cap, but he is an unbeatable Mary Sue while Captain America, who only loses to omnipotent beings or "loses morally", is grounded.

>The fight wasn't the point in SE, the point is his character wasn't perfect and he had serious flaws and compromises.
"THIS FIGHT CAPTAIN WON EVEN THOUGH HE OBVIOUSLY SHOULD HAVE LOST DOESN'T COUNT!"

Secret Empire ended with an idealized Captain America beating Corrupted Captain America, because only Captain America can beat Captain America (Captain America vs the World? Captain America was winning). And Corrupted Captain America only got corrupted because of reality warping, otherwise he is incorruptible.

There's no bigger Mary Sue.

Tomasi's run is super mediocre and catered towards resistors and tumblrinas. Pak's was alright at best and it was full of crossovers, something that has dreaded Superman books for decades. Morrison's doesn't even count as a long run.

Black Panther and Spidey both have had good runs in the past twenty years. Even Iron man had more than decent runs.

>This is what DC fags actually believe

>1. That isn't captain america
It was Captain America.

>2. cosmic cube was broken.
It still had power to rewrite reality easily and overpower all Marvel big hitters at the same time.

>3. He have been shown to beat tony stark in his armor suit before.
Which doesn't make it any less retarded. If Captain America win fights he should lose with frequency, then bigger is his Mary Sueism.

Not with the level of symbolism Superman has. He's the OG, the classic, the original man in a cape for the most part. It's much heavier coming from him.

Besides, that can literally be an argument for any fictional character ever.

What you're not ignoring, you're deliberately twisting. Stop shitposting, or make a real argument.

>This is what DC fags actually believe

>This is what DC fags actually believe

Don't get me wrong; I'm a Superfag, but he always seemed to be a concept which is severely underutilised. For a A-lister, he deserves more than hacks like Tomasi and Jurgens. It's a shame that for reading a great Superman run you have to read a Superman ripoff created by Liefeld. DC has always treated him like a step child compared to Batman. While Batman is getting books by Marini and Busiek, Superman is getting one by Landis.

>Those well-liked Superman runs doesn't count because they would destroy my argument
Well replied.

Last 20 years Superman had Johns, Donner, Busiek, Robinson, Loeb... Still miles ahead of Black Panther, Iron Man and Spider-Man. I guess Marvel should get rid of those characters.

It is clearly that you didn't read the comic.

Stop being a faggot.

Fact: Captain America won, using his fists, against an opponent that was smashing all of Marvel heavy hitters at the same time.

Fact: Only Captain America could beat Captain America.

Fact: Only reality warping can twist the perfect Captain America.

Fact: Superman loses way more often than Captain America.

Then you should easily be able to prove me wrong.

Go on.

Ok. My first step in stopping being a faggot is to make this my last reply to you.

Nobody can prove you wrong if you respond to every post with "NUH UH!"

Backing off without proving me wrong? Well, that was unexpected.

But you can, user.

I said that Captain America won against an opponent that was really, really really way over his level, right? You just have to prove me wrong. Show me the pages where the villain that was easily smashing Thor, Captain Marvel and Blue Marvel at the same time also smashed Captain America, instead of being beaten by his fists.

Where is it, user?

Superman lost TWO battles against the Revenge Squad not that long ago. In fact, he lost everytime they fought. No kryptonite involved. Just fists.

Meanwhile, Cap won a battle against a reality warping supersoldier, powerful enough to make Thor his bitch.

BUT, Superman is unbeatable while Captain America isn't?

Help me, user! I'm too dumb to understand!

>It was Captain America.
It clearly says that he made up by thoughts of a little girl.

>It still had power to rewrite reality easily and overpower all Marvel big hitters at the same time.

It clearly shows that the cube is broken and can't be use.

>Which doesn't make it any less retarded. If Captain America win fights he should lose with frequency, then bigger is his Mary Sueism.

Cap dodge bullets and beaten worst people than him. When he was in cube, he was getting beaten by redskull until the girl save him.

Remember when Gambit hurt the Gladiator using fucking cards, user?

Well, here we have Gambit loading Captain's costume (something more massive than fucking cards), and Captain simply TANKING an explosion that has hurt heavy hitters. WITHOUT. A. SCRATCH.

Is Steve's Plot Armor more durable than the skin of heavy hitters? You know what kind of character has plot armor, right?

Why can't Captain America lose?

Don't feed the troll. We almost dropped it. He was on his fourth post in a row with no replies. It's so clearly bait.

I like him.

I just can't stand his batshit fans who cry over every fucking change.

>It clearly says that he made up by thoughts of a little girl.
Who was created based on who Captain America was before all the cosmic cube fuckery, not different in any way.

You do know that this will be the Captain America from now on, right? You think that Captain America is now a being on par with Thor, and that's why he can beat foes Thor can't?

>It clearly shows that the cube is broken and can't be use.
You are right! The enemy didn't have reality warping powers, he only had Captain's body and experience, infinity energy and a super-suit that should overpower a super-soldier easily!

>Cap dodge bullets and beaten worst people than him.
Not sure what you tried to say here. Worst than who? Captain America? Iron Man?

It doesn't matter, anyway. Cap shouldn't be able to break a suit that can withstand nuclear blasts, but he does it anyway.

>When he was in cube, he was getting beaten by redskull until the girl save him.
Yet he got out of the cube to beat the guy that beat Red Skull to begin with.

A character powered by the plot.

Funny how lying to prove that Superman is a Mary Sue is okay, but using comics to prove how Captain America is a Mary Sue is trolling.

But Superman is a Mary Sue because he can beat the Parasite.

Reminder that the UNBEATABLE, THEREFORE MARY SUE Superman was beaten by Zod, a Hulk-tier foe, weeks ago.

While the "grounded" Captain America, well...

I like him for the same general reasons and touched upon. I tend to think in very abstract and idealistic terms, and believe having a character that can literally do anything is actually incredibly interesting from a philosophical standpoint, because everything he does is necessarily a moral and/or political stance.

I believe the thing that most makes us human is our ability and desire to change the world around us. This isn't always possible for a multitude of reasons, but a character like Superman lets us examine this core dilemma without such distractions. What WOULD you do, if you could do anything? What SHOULD you do? What responsibility do you have, if any, towards those less powerful and/or ideologically opposed to you?

That being said, I recognize that not everyone wants to be asking the "big questions" all the time, nor should they. As far as regular capeshit goes, yeah, he's probably not the best character. But frankly, I don't even really care about that, and don't understand why some people seem to have this intense hatred of him. So, at worst, he's what, a bland, uninspired cliche? Big fucking deal. Really makes me think the "critics" are just pathetic misery-loves-company losers.

>Wonder woman do all the shit he does
wrong

We are lucky that Captain America can only do wrong under the influence of reality warping. I mean, look at him! You literally need omnipotence to get to his level. Anything under that is smashed by this street level guy!

I agree, except with your last point.
I love when he punches niggas FROM space.