What if Riku was the protagonist of KH? Kingdom Hearts has Sora. But no one likes Sora

What if Riku was the protagonist of KH? Kingdom Hearts has Sora. But no one likes Sora.

So the real question is how different would the story be if Riku is the controllable protagonist Sup Forums? How would that change the Disney worlds? You know Riku befriending Aladdin (instead of kidnapping Jasmine), helping Winnie Pooh, sing in Atlantica, etc. Not to mention how would Riku's demeanor change future Disney worlds like Toy Story or Zootopia?

All things considered Riku was meant to be the actual keyblade wielder and not Sora. So how would the Kingdom Hearts series change with Riku officially as the central hero of the series? Not to mention how would the original story change as well?

Anyway Kingdom Hearts thread time. Can't wait for Zootopia to be a world.

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>But no one likes Sora.
I like Sora. The only reason people don't like him is because of Dream Drop Distance and you know it.

What happened in DDD? Still haven't played it yet

You know how KH1 Sora was a dumb kid learning the ropes and KH2 Sora was a kinda snarky teen with some experience under his belt? DDD Sora is an even dumber kid learning the ropes again.

Also, when you kill a heartless and a nobody, the person that those two entities once were come back to life. So Xehenort is back. It's also revealed that the nobodies actually had feelings, Xemnas just lied about that to get them to do what they want. The point of the Organization was to brainwash people into becoming Xehenort themselves so he'd have an army of himselves, it's likely he granted them all the ability to wield keyblades, but they didn't unlock their full potential. Xigbar and Siax are actually half Xehenort and are totally okay with this plan. Once the Organization 13 fails, Xehenort learns how to time travel and goes around recruiting different versions of himself throughout the timeline to form a new Organization 13. Sora fails his mark of mastery exam (despite saving all of existence twice! Seriously, all Aqua had to do was hit a ball) because he's an even dumber kid in DDD. Riku passes though. Lea is back to life and manages to manifest his keyblade. Yen Sid is now training Kairi and Lee.

Nah, Sora was always childish, Dream Drop Distance made him a fucking retard.

>Yen Sid is now training Kairi

And she will be superior to Sora in KH3. I can totally see Sora just be presented as a joke who even Kairi surpasses.

He was childish, but he grew as a character. There's a clear sense of maturity when you play KH1, CoM, and KH2 back to back. Especially between KH1 and KH2 as in KH2 Sora is getting into fist fights and making subtle references to sex (Land of the Dragons...and I'm pretty sure there was one in Port Royal) and he can handle himself more around threats. It's when Dream Drop Distance comes around where he loses all that character progression and acts like KH1 Sora again, but somehow even dumber.

>I can totally see Sora just be presented as a joke who even Kairi surpasses.
This is my fear, it's clear that Nomora is nostalgic of young Sora and does his best to keep Sora like that. But it's a massive hindrance to the character.

Riku was close to being the protagonist; if he hadn't chimped out to darkness at the end of the prologue he would have received the Key instead

>that spoiler

Christ, I miss one game and shit hits the fan. I guess it makes sense that Sora would fail his exam. He's largely self taught through KH1 - DDD during that time Riku hung out with Mickey and gained a greater understanding of hearts, darkness, etc.

If it makes you feel better, I'd still buy DDD or the 2.8. that's what I'm playing it on and that spoiler missed a few things like Roxas/Ven coming back for a few moments and stuff like that.
I'm about to start the little episode with Aqua on the ps4 that's supposed to lead up to 3

No such luck. He failed because he fell asleep during his exam. I shit you not.

I've got DDD but my brother has it and I haven't seen him in a while.

I really hope you're fucking with me because they were training in a dream

If you have a PS4 they have all the games on it
Oh, and is not fucking with you

Nope. He fell asleep while he was in a dream.

What's infuriating about that stupid exam? Yen Sid said this:

"You two are self-taught and that is wrong. So I'm going to make you forget all you learned and toss you into an unfamiliar realm and leave you alone to do the same thing you've always done before."

What bullshit. Especially because even before the end of the test? Yen Sid admits that he may have already fucked up by leaving Sora and Riku vulnerable in there. So when Sora fails it's like Yen Sid doesn't want to admit to his own fuck up.

DDD is a terrible game. And KH3 is looking pretty bad with that whole Sora is going to use the power of darkness implication from the trailer. Why would Sora even listen to Xemnas? A man who has tried to kill him twice and separately turn him into a vessel for Xehanort? Sometimes I really want to kick Nomura in the balls.

That's some Goku level shit. They just want to keep the same dynamic going into KH3 but still want to make more games in the meantime. It's bullshit

It's Nomura's Fan Fiction.
Let him have this one.
Once he's done with the series, then you may shit on him.

This. Sora is a fine character....up till DDD. Hopefully he pulls his head out of his ass by the time KH3 comes around.

Everyone took stupid pills after KH2
>"I stole Minnie!"
>"Kay, I'm gonna go fuck around with my new friend Lea for a little while, later."

>"Oh, BTW, NOW I should probably tell you guys about my friends trapped in the Realm of Darkness....Oh...Uhhh....why didn't I tell you? B-Because she told me not to! Yeah, that's it."

>"You still trust me? Even after leading you into a trap so you could get killed by an Organization member?"
>"Yep! Everyone makes mistakes!"

its just an excuse to reset Sora to lv.1 at the start of each game
then main point of the exam was to teach Sora and/or Riku the ability to awaken things that are asleep within said thing's own heart, because Yen Sid thinks thats the key to reviving Ventus. Riku passed because he demonstrated that skill. Sora failed because he didn't. That it wasn't Sora's fault the exam got meddled with has no bearing on the plain fact that Sora didn't learn the skill. If you go do a course to learn how to use a software package, but the training center gets burned down in an accident, they're not going to give you your certification just because its not your fault.
>And KH3 is looking pretty bad with that whole Sora is going to use the power of darkness implication from the trailer.
Sora's being using darkness since KH1. He dos Gravity magic which is classified as a darkness power, and he has his whole anti-form in KHII.
I can only guess he's paying even a whit of attention to what Xemnas has to say because he's now aware of Vanitus dwelling 3-4 layers deep in his heart and is trying to figure out a way to 'ride the wave' and resist next time Vanitus tries to corrupt him

>then main point of the exam was to teach Sora and/or Riku the ability to awaken things that are asleep within said thing's own heart,
Didn't Sora learn how to do that back when he was fucking nine?

>then main point of the exam was to teach Sora and/or Riku the ability to awaken things that are asleep within said thing's own heart,

Wasn't he able to do that before he was fucking born? Or am I misinterpreting BBS

If he did, he wouldn't have had to shove a keyblade in his chest to get Kairi out.

But he still woke her up, didn't he? And why would the Dream World help with that? He'd forget the ability after waking up. Hell, the reason why he probably couldn't is because Yen Sid sapped that memory out.

Did he even fail? The way Yen Sid phrased it at the end, it sounded more like only one person can pass in any given exam. He just gave the edge to Riku because he jumped back in to save Sora.

He didn't wake her up, the keyblade did unlocked her heart that was sealed in him.

Sora doesn't have any special powers, just an extra spacious heart that can fit others like Ventus, Roxas, Xion, Kairi and all those other fuckers in him.

Riku is the true hero of KH, Sora is just our perspective

That's why Riku gets all the character development

What if the player is also in Sora's heart and that's the real reason he gets no development? Like, we've been in his heart since we turned on the game and we've been giving him power all along. Then he unlocks us at the end because the series is over and we can't play as him anymore.

The problem is Sora by all accounts SHOULD be receiving characterization and mental growth but Nomura insists on mind erasing Sora, resetting to Level 1, etc all the time. So as a result Sora comes off as one note and incapable of maturing. I seriously just feel bad for him because Nomura is ensuring that the protagonist is the worst part of Kingdom Hearts. It's turning into Naruto or One Piece.

Look at the difference in characterization. In Chain of Memories Sora admits he's not happy Namine messed with his memory yet still let's it slide. In DDD Sora doesn't even consider anything, he just point blank forgives Neku for betraying him. It's the little things and subtlety from Sora's personality what made him endearing that Nomura has gotten rid of.

And if I may say, the older Sora gets an the more he remains like this? The more unappealing he becomes.

Yen Sid is so full of shit. I don't know who gave Sora those clothes that could be tracked by Org. 13, but fuck him. It's not Sora's fault that Xehanort (all six of them) targeted him

Merlin is training them, not Yen Sid.

>I don't know who gave Sora those clothes that could be tracked by Org. 13, but fuck him.
Wait....Wasn't that Yen Sid?

He has received character growth, the problem was it's all undone in Dream Drop Distance. The character noticeably acts different in KH1, CoM, and KH2. And that was great! It was great to see Sora grow up and adapt more to his life as a keyblade wielder. But apparently that's a bad thing and they had to set him back to square one in DDD.

I was thinking that, but I figured that even Yen Sid isn't that big of a dick, to give him a compromised costume

What? People found other characters superior to him for years, for example the moment Roxas appeared some people have been saying fuck Sora and even before that I am sure people felt that Riku was better in every way.

>Isn't that big of a dick.
Nigger, he's a keyblade wielder. When was the last time we saw him fight shit? Every time shit hits the fan he just sits in that stupid fucking chair and tells some novice wielders to solve his problems for him. I'm starting to wonder if that faggot even knows any magic.

Clearly, Yen Sid is also Xehanort

WHEN YOU WALK AWAY

Riku is that edgy OC everyone likes when they're ten. Roxas is an actual character someone you can get behind on the other hand. But that said, it still doesn't change that Sora was a fine character up till Dream Drop Distance. Everyone likes to act like Sora hasn't matured at all since KH1, when in reality he's matured quite a bit and acts wildly differently between the three games. But when Dream Drop Distance hit they decided to forget all the progress the character made and made him dumber than his first appearance.

>It's also revealed that the nobodies actually had feelings, Xemnas just lied about that to get them to do what they want.
You're telling me, that all of the members of Organization 13, had absolutely nothing wrong with their ability to feel and convey emotion, but they were too dense to realize that the feelings and emotions they had were real?

Wouldn't even be mad because at least then he'd be doing something. Seriously, fuck that old cunt.

I mean, which members aside from Saix and Xigbar actually seem intelligent enough for that?

Sora may be the most generic JRPG protag of all time but I'll gladly take that over Riku's never ending DARKNESS bullshit.

>If you go do a course to learn how to use a software package, but the training center gets burned down in an accident, they're not going to give you your certification just because its not your fault.
Wouldn't they let you take the fucking exam again though? Seems like bullshit if they'd tell you too bad you failed.

YES! It was all a fucking lie. Sora, in his wildly out of character retarded form in DDD figured it out in less than five seconds too. All he had to do was bring up that Roxas and Axel CLEARLY fucking had emotions and Xigbar confirms that nobodies have hearts.

I hate Sora. the story is straight out of fanfiction.net where everyone is evil darkness and Sora is the Yugioh Schmugioh with the friends and the believing in self.

on the other hand, I just imagined a somewhat brooding mc Riku battling a jovial but evil Sora

Sort of. Roxas being connected to Sora made Axel and Xion feel shit.

Marluxia.....Which explain why he wanted to betray them. Especially after we learn that his somebody, Larium, may have been friends with Ventus.

About Roxas....I seriously cannot stand him. In a series about exploring enjoyable highly fantasy worlds Roxas' ambition is to....live a normal life, go to school, make some friends, hang out in the summer, etc. Fucking boring. Maybe if the series wasn't about world traveling adventures then he'd be fine, but as it is? Major turn off.

I also have to admit that I dislike his whole "I'm real! I grew feelings and as such I exist!" bullshit. I don't like the pretentious existentialism crap that Roxas and KH2 brought on.

Besides, people only like Roxas because ever since KH2 Nomura started to make Sora too dumb to live. That's the thing that angers me, Nomura makes every character excel by making Sora inferior. It's fucking the Goku Syndrome all over again, Toriyama hates Goku and does his very best to portray him as a horrible father, irresponsible fighter, etc.

It's frankly obvious that Nomura doesn't like Sora. And I keep suspecting he keeps portraying Sora horribly on purpose. Think about it, Nomura claims Kingdom Hearts is Sora's Story, and I have to ask since when? After KH2 we had stories with Non-Sora characters taking center stage and currently we got that stupid Kingdom Hearts Union Cross thing with the replacements of the Foretellers that has nothing to do with Sora. Basically Nomura claims it's Sora's story, but the bulk of entries shows that the actual characters that drive the plot forward are the Non-Sora characters. Sora himself is a plot device. Nomura did to Sora what Disney did to Mickey, he's just a one dimensional shallow bland mascot for the franchise.

Nope. All of them. It's confirmed after a certain amount of time you just grow a new heart. youtube.com/watch?v=NgncTPlWoJQ

Sora isn't that generic, for a supposed innocent good kid he has no issues just going for the kill in most of his fights. Problem is Nomura retcons those fights to the death away.

>you just grow a new heart.
I'm so fucking done with this series.

>DDD is a terrible game
>KH3 is looking pretty bad
KH games are great if you stop caring about the story like a normal person would after age 13.

>tfw your favorite movies got worlds in one of the mediocre KH games and they aren't popular enough to be brought back

Rip Hunchback and Fantasia. God knows if they did reuse Hunchback, they'd adapt the second movie.

KH2 Sora wasn't too dumb to live he just didn't have ANY direction in that game at all. He assumes Riku is with Mickey till half way through the game and before then the only thing he was told was "go out and kill a bunch of nobodies". Obviously he just fucked off and goofed around on other planets till the half way point.

Time doesn't apply in the Dream World. The vents of the sleeping world could have never happened yet.

I mean, it's makes sense, because they obviously had distinctive personalities, desires, and free will from the get-go.

But I just chalked that up to flimsy writing. Like how fictional robots have been written to want to feel emotion, when they obviously shouldn't be able to feel the desire for emotion in the first place.

But I guess the organization were all just super naive and/or dumb as a sack of rocks.

He just says "a number of us" so not all of them get heart replacements. I figured he just referred to the people around Roxas because those are the only ones that experienced the emotions sora was talking about.

Like, I don't think Marluxia or Larxenne or Saix were ever just going to get their hearts back.

To be fair in really a nitpicky sort of way, Sora's already used darkness in Antiform and Shadowbreaker in DDD, and it's just a tease, I'm pretty sure Sora will refuse the offer. Goofy and Donald will probably talk him out of it

I thought that was implied from the beginning. Nobodies clearly start developing their own personality after a while, so it makes sense that they'd get a heart when they diverge to the point of being a separate being.

>Riku is an edgy serious kid MC who is taught to lighten up and care for others by traveling with Donald and Goofy
>Sora is a kindhearted but naive boy who is more believably tricked but Maleficent into thinking Riku has abandoned him and Kairi
>Sora also internalizes all the shit Riku said about him being goofy and tries to act more serious, reflecting how Riku acted at the start of the adventure

Might've been cooler than what we got.

I really hope that's the case. I desperately require a Fantasia dino level and a proper Frollo boss fight.

youtube.com/watch?v=4H5zOJnxBHc

>captcha: church foch

You're ignoring the rest of the scene.
>Understand, one can banish the heart from the body, but the body will try to replace it the first chance it gets. For as many times as it takes. And so I knew, even after we were divided into heartless and nobodies, it was just a temporary separation.
It literally comes back after you just wait for it, not just for Roxas, but for everyone. It's safe to assume that considering they all had different personalities they obviously had hearts. That's why Xigbar is only HALF Xehenort. Because when his heart was forming he was hooked up to Kingdom Hearts and force fed Xehenort's.

Also, I hope you all know this implies Yen Sid is a racist.

The implication at the beginning was that they were supposed to be ghosts. But, you know, retcons and shit.

Without a fucking doubt

Fantasia definitely ain't coming back since that clearly happened in the past.

enough dammit! i realize now that 15 years ago i was a stupid stupid fool to think this whole series wouldve been Square Enix's Roger Rabbit, but instead we got Hideaki Anno's House of Mouse

Fuck you, that was Riku in the original KH. Since then he's been atoning for his fuckups. Granted, I never played 358/2 Days, but it's really hard to put Roxas' personality into actual words. He's just an ineffectual dude along for the ride. Not a shit character, but far from good

I like Sora

KH2 Sora was the best Sora and there's nothing you faggots can do about it.

>oh no Goofy DIED
>DRAMAAAAAA
>what no he didnt. he always lives when you stab him

Fleeting freedom seems to be Roxas' whole shtick throughout KH2, and I think it was done pretty well. I don't think Roxas is a particularly developed character, but his ambitions are clear, relatable and sympathetic

>I don't like the pretentious existentialism crap that Roxas and KH2 brought on.
That's pretty far from pretentious. It sounds like you're just mad about R&M

>Toriyama hates Goku and does his very best to portray him as a horrible father, irresponsible fighter, etc.
Toriyama doesn't hate Goku. People think Goku's supposed to be the Japanese Boy Scout, but he was never supposed to be that to begin with. He's based on Sun Wukong, who is a notorious dick. He's not supposed to be a superhero, and he doesn't have to have strictly heroic attributes

>Square Enix's Roger Rabbit
Friendly reminder that KH needs to reboot with this idea in mind
>No fucking FF dialogue
>No fucking time travel
>Minimum number of OCs (Sora, Riku, Kairi with actual relevance)
>Maleficent is the boss, Chernabog is endgame
I don't care how many times I have to fucking repeat this, it needs to happen

The Roger Rabbits OCs really should show up in Twilight Town. It's pretty much KH toontown while not being as disgustingly sweet as Disney Town.

it would be worse off. sora is and always was better, and it should stay him

It would have been over quicker and the plot would be more boring. Riku is more headstrong than Sora and wouldn't have time for the goofy nonsense of the Disney worlds.

Any and all drama of they were trying to make in that moment got shredded by Mickey Mouse going nuclear.

>THEY'LL PAY FOR THIS

Seconding this. For what it's worth Sora is the only character in this series that has good legitimate chemistry with Disney characters.

Riku - Let's be blunt his "Muh darkness!" shtick doesn't work with the majority of Disney characters, the ones from Hunchback barely worked but it's because Riku is mentally mature and those particular Disney characters are serious business.

Ventus - Unimportant version of Sora who wants to artificially make new friends just because he has to announce it. So his interactions with the Disney character is phony from a certain point of view.

Terra - Can't say, he just hangs out with Disney Villains.

Aqua - Entirely professional and couldn't care less about them. She sees dealing with them as a profession and a part that she doesn't care for.

Roxas - He's kind of drab as a character, but he also was ordered to never interact with Disney Characters in Days so it's not applicable. But given his demeanor it doesn't feel like he has it in him to genuinely get in on the Disney fanfare. He's too grounded by reality emotionally.

Sora? He legitimately and organically tries to have fun with the denizens of different worlds. It helps that he has the right attitude and secondly he doesn't know that a keyblade wielder as a job is meant to NOT hang out with the people of different worlds. So all in all Sora actually feels fitting for the role.

Riku seems a bit flat sometimes but actions-wise he's a big picture thinker. He's also less moral than Sora is, starting off. A bit of a jerk, but not angsty. Willing to make compromises to accomplish his goals. Probably would team up with at least one villain at some point out of practicality. Donald and Goofy would need to play the part of his conscience and part of his journey would be just becoming a nicer person (possibly hammered home by him fucking up hard and Sora the goodhearted dumbass getting his keyblade for a bit). It might have been funny to play his straight man routine against all the zany Disney stuff he has to wade through as well.

>It might have been funny to play his straight man routine against all the zany Disney stuff he has to wade through as well.

This would definitely be entertaining as a one-off "What if?" scenario. I wouldn't think it could carry several games' worth of plots, though.

Riku as a straightman? It could be good or could be terrible. Imagine Riku in Zootopia's world transformed and whining about his transformation. That could get grating rather than he going along with the flow. Having a Tron form is not the same as turning into something more inhuman.

Zootopia? Imagine him at Pride Rock.

If Zootopia gets a world, I think it'd actually be cooler if the gang didn't transform. None of the citizens have actually seen a human before and, out of fear, lump him in along with the predators as something to be feared. I miss when the main story of the Disney world seemed more tied in to the overall narrative and themes instead of just being a retread f the original movie with the trio shoehorned in there.

People always say this BUT NAME 1 THING HE COULD HAVE DONE.

By the time Riku told him to stop it was too late.

Mikey's reason makes sense. If he told them any time sooner they would have gone looking for her which they did not have the time to do.

In retrospect, everything past KH1 has been a mistake in some form or another.

CoM:
>shitty card-based battle system
>all the watered down world retreads are a palette swaps of each other anyway
>starts the trend of autistic squarenix stuff crowding out the Disney content
>proto (at the time) Org 13 are poorly explained and just a bunch of generic assholes in black trench coats.
>Riku's story was the only interesting part
>memory wipe

KH2:
>few upsides outside of a greatly improved battle system
>worse Disney worlds
>more squarenix shit
>confused and meandering story
>long boring prologue that barely matters anyway
>awkwardly working around previously mentioned memory wipe
>nobody concept is interesting but poorly executed
>pointless retcons that only serve to overcomplicate the plot

328/2 days:
>everything

BBS:
>YOU get a keyblade! And YOU get a keyblade! Everybody gets a keyblade!
>Roxas clone mystery bait
>Terra is a huge dumbass and ruins everything
>keyblade wielding is less "getting chosen by your weapon" than "a glorified communicable disease"

Mobile shit:
>who cares

DDD:
>EVERYTHING

Simple and Clean, indeed.

demyx was aware too

I think you people did not pay attention.
The sleeping worlds were part of the test but the point of the exam was to master the ability to manipulate the realm of sleep.
The reason They had to be level drained was to force them to use the new power.
Yeah Xehanort interfered but at the end Sora didn't learn the ability well enough.

It's like a driving test
>Hey guys you're both amazing drivers but you don't know how to drive stick. So time to get in cars and learn.
>This dude sabatoged my car
>listen its terrible that happened but you still don't know how to drive stick

>He didn't like the card based system

Shit taste senpai

Why is manipulating the sleeping whatever important? I haven't followed this franchise in years.

And despite all this, I remain hyped for 3. The worlds look much bigger and less linear than the ones in KH2. I'm also morbidly curious in seeing how they wrap up Xheanort's time travel shenanigans. Here's hoping there's as few missteps as possible.

>trying to go platinum on Re:Com and KH2

According to DDD because Xehanort is doing it too but the mobile game implies it's to save the survivors of the Keyblade war who have been in a state of suspended time

>I wish Donald and Goofy went on a separate tangent
>And the team comprised of Sora, Riku and Lea
>Max and Peter (Jr) make an appearance as a court knave and apprentice, and it makes Pete question is evil ways
>I wish they did Treasure-fucking-Planet finally

A grown man can dream......

>dividing critical plot-points between gaming platforms
Even with the remastered compilations they shit out every few years this still drives me up the fucking wall.

>Goofy gets hit in the head with a gigantic boulder
>He's fine.

This is like in GI Joe the Movie; Duke getting "killed" providing motivational drama to the rest of the team but at the end of the movie Duke's like, "Nah senpai, it's just a flesh wound." Totally shits on the entire scene.

The 1980's Transformers movie had more balls than that PoS GI Joe Movie, even if it was just a stupid line pasted at the end of the movie so children don't get too upset.

Maybe I am jaded, but if children of years gone by could handle Bambi's mom, then today's children could handle Goofy actually biting the big one, or at the very least suffer a major head injury that prevents him from continuing the adventure.

Are you sure? In the version I played, Yen Sid said they were both worthy, but Riku jumping back into the world of dreams to save Sora was what ultimately put him ahead. Was there an update that added more to the final scene?

Also Marluxia was deeply involved with the keyblade wars

>Press Triangle To Win for 99% of the fights
>greatly improved battle system