ITT marxism is trash

ITT marxism is trash

Other urls found in this thread:

mises.org/library/end-socialism-and-calculation-debate-revisited
mises.org/library/subjective-value-theory
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lange_model,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input–output_model
economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21607830-more-people-are-exposed-socialism-worse-they-behave-lying-commies
mises.org
youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc&index=69&list=FLxgJ0vK112MRHzFqHgPKAhw,
twitter.com/SFWRedditImages

>Mfw people still push rhetoric based around the Marxian labor theory of value despite it being 100% debunked over 100 years ago which also debunked all of Marx's ideas based around his labor theory of value model which is the vast vast vast vast majority of his work.
>Mfw socialist still persists despite both subjective theory of value the knowledge problem and the calculation problem have rendered 100% of socialist/Marxist/Communist ideas creation science tier

Im sitting in a college lecture on marxism at the moment, i need some Sup Forums to get me threw this autistic shit

But it's trash outside the tread too desue

It is
ebac communists

>not revealing your power level and blowing everyone the fuck out

Sad!

how was it debunked?

...

as soon as the floor is open for debate imma fuckin go hard. just waitng for my moment

Start stirring shit then.
You do have enough understanding of the things I listed to absolutely shit on these morons don't you?
Don't be a weak cuck and allow this nonsense to continue in what is supposed to be a place of higher learning.

Remaining silent against their dogmaticsm is how these religious zealots stay imbedded in universities because these outright false theories can only survive in an echochamber and cannot in an open rational discussion.

Remember be polite be cordial but be firm and show no quarter.

Hell you don't even need to go full Austrian school right away to debunk this trash closing that empty ad hominem attack doorway and slowly ease people into thinking

Please reply to this gent

Even worse than Marxism is its 'logic' applied to other sectors of society.

>all these classcucks ITT

Sad!

there hasent been a time yet that i just sat quiet and let shit go. Im already that guy that everyone looks at when some liberal bullshit gets said.

marxism is basically christianity 2.0 in sence that its a hipster religion

Michell foucault destiled gommie qnd socialists ideas and described a very subtle way of control that is being used today by SJW. The whole feminist,black and transgender movements are being used by the same group of leftists and its working not only on usa bit canada and brazil. Those are the places where i recognize the pattern. The best way to fight it is not feel piety. The minority discourse works best agaist christians.

>Michell Foucault destiled gommie qnd socialists ideas and described a very subtle way of control that is being used today by SJW.
You got me interested, can you spoonfeed me a link to that essay, please?

The subjective theory of value has utterly dismantled the Marxian labor theory of value which assumed that "muh ebul capitalist owners have to steal surplus profit from.duh werkors to make money so duh werkors need to overthrow duh ebul capitalist and own duh corprashuns in collective".

Subjective theory of value shows that people will place irrational value on objects and things like labor cost don't matter at all. IE just because some dumb sod spent a year building briefcase phones from the 80s doesn't mean that his labor is magically worth anything because no one would purchase his product.
Since the vast bulk of Marx's theory is based in this model the vast majority of it is rendered debunked by default.

The knowledge and calculation problems have shown that socialism/Communism as very systems fundamentally don't have the information relying mechanisms that capitalism has to determine the incomprehensible number of variables that take place in even the most basic production(read "I pencil" to start to grasp this) and will collapse because they have no way to determine what people want(the knowledge problem) and how much goods and services are worth(the calculation problem).
In regards to the price system it truly is the most advanced information relying device ever devised by man relying trillions upon trillions of variables to every individual making any purchase or production or investment decision.
Here's a fairly decent article going over these two

mises.org/library/end-socialism-and-calculation-debate-revisited

And here's an explanation of the subjective theory of value.
mises.org/library/subjective-value-theory


You wouldn't talk about astrophysics if you didn't understand even Newton why would you talk economis without knowing these basic demonstratable theories. Bringing Marx's work into economics discussions is the equivalent of bringing flat earth insanity into a discussion on astrophysics

The subjective theory of value has utterly dismantled the Marxian labor theory of value which assumed that "muh ebul capitalist owners have to steal surplus profit from.duh werkors to make money so duh werkors need to overthrow duh ebul capitalist and own duh corprashuns in collective"

Subjective theory of value shows that people will place irrational value on objects and things like labor cost don't matter at all. IE just because some dumb sod spent a year building briefcase phones from the 80s doesn't mean that his labor is magically worth anything because no one would purchase his product
Since the vast bulk of Marx's theory is based in this model the vast majority of it is rendered debunked by default

The knowledge and calculation problems have shown that socialism/Communism as very systems fundamentally don't have the information relying mechanisms that capitalism has to determine the incomprehensible number of variables that take place in even the most basic production(read "I pencil" to start to grasp this) and will collapse because they have no way to determine what people want(the knowledge problem) and how much goods and services are worth(the calculation problem)
In regards to the price system it truly is the most advanced information relying device ever devised by man relying trillions upon trillions of variables to every individual making any purchase or production or investment decision
Here's a fairly decent article going over these two

mises.org/library/end-socialism-and-calculation-debate-revisited

And here's an explanation of the subjective theory of value.
mises.org/library/subjective-value-theory


You wouldn't talk about astrophysics if you didn't understand even Newton why would you talk economis without knowing these basic demonstratable theories. Bringing Marxs work into economics discussions is the equivalent of bringing flat earth insanity into a discussion on astrophysics the only proper response is laughter

Go on a site for rich people, the ft, bloomberg, whatever. See if you can find anything advocating nationalism.

Dated Marxism theory of the have and the have-nots has evolved much like Gramsci fantasized. It's now about race, the oppressors and the oppressed, anyway I'm ready for the race war.

"Why let fat cats oppress you when unaccountable bureaucrats can???"

Oh really?

Fuck you, Libertarians.

They always resort to it in a crisis. Like the 1930s

>relying
Reeeeeeeeee
Relaying

>I don't know shit about marxism but I'm just gonna be edgy and say how stupid it is while I don't bother to actually learn what it's about
>Am I cool yet?

>water is wet

FUCK OFF COMMIE

Venezuela is all you need to know

...

>implying I give a shit about meme countries

They tried it several times and it failed.

Not essays but books. Watch and punish, microphisics of power, history of sexuality etc. if you want to get a sortcut here is a professor from toronto trying to stand against a law on gender neutral wrights. The main reqson is the obligation of one that id ntify himsef as gender newtral be called "they". He was the first one that looked nked that strategy to a leftist agenda. And since i read alot of foucault on the uni (ex gommie here) the pattern was easy to find. Basicly a party will apropriate flags of various minorities using words from a discourse of that minoritie of dentify enemies and strat gies of reparation. So the group of minorities group up toghether and they will vote for the party. The party will then give paliative money or servces that she ill cost alot to the tax payers.

The difference between libertarian and Marxist ad hominem attacks is that Marxist attacks are only attacks.
Libertarian ad hominem attacks come after shit like
To mock how fucking stupid Marxist theory is. IE just because you don't engage with a flat earther in debating their nonsense and make fun of their nonsense doesnt make the flat earther right.

Also Milton Friedman is like baby's first toe in the ocean of libertarian writers. He's a gate keeper and much of what he says regarding economics is shit outside of the basic idea of liberty. To fully dive into the ocean you start reading Hayek rothbard and Mises. People who have utterly deconstructed Marxist theories and haven't been rebutted in almost a century

Was it mentioned at any point in the class that Marx and Engels were genuine racists and were pretty nationalist? Like, they didn't believe there should be equal rights for different races. They thought that stuff before Western civilization was trash and that certain peoples would never accomplish anything that matters, basically everyone except white people. Marx also wrote a book "A World Without Jews" that could have been from Hitler.
Might be possible to ask something about this in a Q&A session of the lecture after some research?

>libertarians are stupid therefore communism works
Try again, retard.

> you dont know what socialism is so dont criticize it!
> what about this latest example of how socialism rekts a country and leads to oppression
> idgaf about those countries XD

Kill yourself podemos faggot

Become 'that guy' that the lecturers fear. Sit at the front, challenge their ideas, pick holes in the argument with logic and reason.

itt?
marx was a fool
sadly most of west is falling for his bs

>socialism
>thread is about Marxism
congrats you're retarded

>Ameridumbs talking about Marxism

>IE just because some dumb sod spent a year building briefcase phones from the 80s doesn't mean that his labor is magically worth anything because no one would purchase his product.

If you ever read Marx(this is actually in the first pages) you would know there is a thing called average necessary labor time, it explains that value is the average (labor)time "society" spends to make a product, so it doesn't matter if you produce a phone in 20 days, because you wouldn't be able to sell it for profit in the market against Apple that shits one phone per second.

>The knowledge and calculation problems have shown that socialism/Communism as very systems fundamentally don't have the information relying mechanisms that capitalism has to determine the incomprehensible number of variables that take place in even the most basic production(read "I pencil" to start to grasp this) and will collapse because they have no way to determine what people want(the knowledge problem) and how much goods and services are worth(the calculation problem).

This isn't even true in the neoclassical/market models en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lange_model, even worst in the marxist-leninist aproach, that uses central planning, input output and material balance metods(and technology) to control the economy en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Input–output_model

>Mises
Serious? a fucking propaganda boy for capitalism, that doesn't has a single concrete theory criticising Marx.

>FUCK OFF COMMIE
>Anti post is anti Commie
>Post rothbard quote
>Get called a Commie
>Mfw You're a special kind of stupid

Any links to good essays or condensed works that explain this? My teachers bring up Foucault and other marxist crap up all the time but I don't want to waste my time reading through all of his works.

Ebat tvoya mat.
Learn how to type or give up with those drunken fingers of yours, Ivan

>Serious? a fucking propaganda boy for capitalism, that doesn't has a single concrete theory criticising Marx.
And yet his theories have been shown correct with every example of a nation following socialism and Marxism.

Everything's from the Soviets to Venezuela have collapsed due to the calculation problem
> If you ever read Marx(this is actually in the first pages) you would know there is a thing called average necessary labor time, it explains that value is the average (labor)time "society" spends to make a product, so it doesn't matter if you produce a phone in 20 days, because you wouldn't be able to sell it for profit in the market against Apple that shits one phone per second.
Subjective value theory dismantles Marx's LTV way beyond that.

He wasn't debunked, it's mostly people that never read Marx that create a strawman and attack it themselves
example

>Applying our theory to parents and children, this means that a parent does not have the right to aggress against his children, but also that the parent should not have a legal obligation to feed, clothe, or educate his children, since such obligations would entail positive acts coerced upon the parent and depriving the parent of his rights.- Von Mises

Libertarians WILL defend this

Learn it. Despite it being bullshit marx and foulcault shoul be learned. The left walks in the shadows of unis, union association of workers,schools even in the churches sometimes . Just be shure the get some mises later.

socialism/communism/fascism/democrat
all same shit

all fail
capitalism wins
look at USA and hong kong
as soon as we boot chimpy
USA will be fucking way way ahead
UK on way back up too

have fun with your globalism and decadent consumerist culture

>He wasn't debunked, it's mostly people that never read Marx that create a strawman and attack it themselves
>example
Except that little fact that Hayek was a Marxist in his early life and the subjective value theory was devised in direct refutation of Marx's work.

That's the problem with the religious zealots that are Marxist.
They endlessly claim "huuur you don't understand Marxism so therefore wrong" without realising that the people endlessly debunking Marx understand him quite well.

Hell fairly recent psychological studies have shown that people amongst the left especially the socialist left are extremely bad at understanding the ideas amongst classical liberals and conservatives while people amongst the right are very good at understanding what leftist believe.

have fun with all the dicks you suck
ill have fun with highest standard of living in world

of course
if they thought for 5min they would be capitalists

would you be able to cite that study? i want to use it in a paper

Sure thing Mr.Rothschild, make sure to open those borders for the free market

>ITT: people too dumb and/or brainwashed to understand communism
Communism is way of the future faggots

Meanwhile Marx literally claimed all forms of nuclear family were bourgeoisie constructs and that children should be removed from parents to be raised "fairly" by the state.

Btw Mises quote there isn't even that bad when you see the state in places like Europe taking people's children from them for holding"wrong" political opinions

That does seem to be the choice, doesn't it?
Wealth and Jew shit or soul-deadening regulation of every aspect of life and poverty. Tough one. I'm still thinking.

It was Johnathan Haidt very easy to find

It has only ever worked on paper, on in small ethnocentric countries

Atleast the children are alive and well instead of starving because parents taking care of children is statist
not a marxist btw

As a bonus studies are also starting to show that people who grew up in more socialist societies become increasingly immoral dishonest and selfish when compared to people raised in capitalist societies
Link related has links directly to this study but I like posting it for the lefty butthurt

economist.com/news/finance-and-economics/21607830-more-people-are-exposed-socialism-worse-they-behave-lying-commies

>Atleast the children are alive and well instead of starving because parents taking care of children is statist
>Parents won't feed their kids unless forced to by the state
>Mfw
>Marxist ideals litteraly have killed directly millions of children through starvation

>And yet his theories have been shown correct with every example of a nation following socialism and Marxism.Everything's from the Soviets to Venezuela have collapsed due to the calculation problem

[citation needed]
Venezuela is social democrat/reformist(the same people/polices that Marx fought against in his time).
The USSR after Stalin went on a revisionist path(that's why most marxist-lenninist call Khruschev/Gorbachov a revisionist), implementing various market reformsi.e profit as regulator of production, selling of the tractors stations etc. that revived the law of value as a factor in the production sphere of the economy, and as Marx theorys say the law of value and the capital will destroy every obstacle in its way, in this case was the USSR.

>Subjective value theory dismantles Marx's LTV way beyond that
I'm waiting your argument

What's his argument against Marx, appealing to authority won't work here m8 and more he was formed in the neo-classical school of economics, so no he wasn't a marxist, and as much marxist say, after Marx the field of economics turned into a propaganda machine for capitalism that tried to hide the truth (that even bourguoise economists saw as facts before Marx), because they knew what were the consequences if they pushed the theories to their logical conclusion.

>It has only ever worked on paper, on in small ethnocentric countries
Nice argument there m8.

I'm not a marxist nor am i advocating marxist ideals, that was just a jab at the libertarians.

>Marxist ideals litteraly have killed directly millions of children through starvation
That makes it sound like it's a marxist ideal to starve children instead of something that happened due to rapid industrialization and economic changes (holodomor)

Nice strawman you created there Frederic.
Revolutionary Marxists want to destroy the bourgeois state and replace it with the proletarian state(socialism), so tha we can pave the way for the withering away of the state for good(communism), no communist has a hardon for state, we just recognise it as a tool for the class struggle.

I'm assuming the lecture is over but I'll upload some pics anyway for future

ops, this was to

still in it actually

>hes using big words
>must be a commie!
Ameriburgers at its finest.

shut up pizza nigger

No need to be so harsh.

Marxism IS a bit naive, especially when it comes to talk about class solidarity.

But you already agree with a lot of Marx's ideas, even if you don't subscribe to Marxism.

How does this address and refute to explain Marx's success? Seems like a big extensive straw man shitpost.

>hes calling out my ameriburger bro for being utterly retarded
>I must grab my flag, and join the action! To the defense, for 'merrica!!!!!!!!!!!!

piizaa
nigggaa

shaart
iiiiin
maaaart

Long lecture! What are you studying?

poo on your face!
lol

>ad hominem attack on marx
>respond with an ad hominem attack on libertards
Yeah, it's a shitpost.

say that to my face not online see what happens

...

libtards are as shitty as marx
pocahontas!
global warming is a lie!

>mises.org

>You can't define individual needs without a free market
Individuals don't live in the vaccum, their needs are conected to society and its mode of production. more on this >Men are motivated to work more when they're rewarded for more.
This isn't even scientific youtube.com/watch?v=u6XAPnuFjJc&index=69&list=FLxgJ0vK112MRHzFqHgPKAhw, and the "each according to his ability, each accordind to his needs" motto its only aplliable in the higher fase of communism, but in the lower fase"socialism" the motto is "to each acording to his work" as Lenin said.
>There is no evidence in reality
Marx was a materalist, he derived his theory observing the objective and concreat reality, and his predictions were on point, the monopolies, imperialism, revolution, falling rate of profit pic related etc.
>Dialetic Materialism governs human history
No, historial materialism analises and can make predictions, but wat guides history is class struglle, forces of production and relations of production.
>Muhh zillions killed
Fucking Stalin ans his wather machine amrite.
Again, if you faggots ever read Marx before
talking about it.

poo on your face!
still no idea the flag!
fag!

reported to the bully police

still not sure about what flag that is

it's not your fault, it's just
>american education
at work

gr8 b8 m8 r8 8/8.
we all hate the left

...

>shits on marx while quoting fucking rothbard

These people actually post on Sup Forums

>marx
>state

oh boy

>Anarkidies
>doing anything worthwhile
Choose one