>2012-2014 >Ike fires the editorial teams >Ike tears down the Fantastic Four and X-Men, sacrificing huge profits out of spite >Marvel starts steadily, increasingly agitating their core fanbase to the point of collapse on an incredily idiotic and unstable philosophy of "Anger = Sales, Apathy never happens"
>2015 >Kevin Feige has enough of Marvel Entertainments bullshit and gets Bob Iger to amputate Marvel Studios from the cancered body, transplanting it under Disney FIlms
>2015-2016 >The core fanbase is completely gone, and they've attracted a very niche new crowd, while DC capitalizes on this to deliver a crippling blow in the form of DC Rebirth
>2016-2017 >Marvel starts their "Outrage = Sales" gimmick on the new crowd >New crowd starts leaving and the good PR built from shallow pedantic gimmicks is drying up
>2017 >NYCC happens >Retailers openly mocking Marvel at their panels >Journalist sites openly shitting on Marvel in their articles
>Disney farms out Big Hero 6, a Marvel IP, to IDW.
Plenty of time considering they still make disgusting amounts of money from MCU and merchandise.
Daniel Myers
>MCU Nope.
Not how it works hombre. Marvel Studios is under the DISNEY FILMS label, so Disney gets the money and distributes it according to royalty shit and trademark shit.
Merchandising is something Disney can do themselves, the rest of the company is a PR nightmare and hole of lost profits.
Asher Bell
Dont forget 2012 saw the release of Spider-Men, officially confirming Marvel was out of ideas.
Landon Butler
>How long do they have left? Maybe a decade if things keep up being like they are now. Centuries if you bigots will open your eyes and stop being racist.
Dylan Foster
mid 2018 after Disney gets fed up and Dissolves Marvel Comics into something else
Darth Mouse still keeps Marvel around because of SW, but it wont be too long until they are fed up with the superhero branch and pulls out a full rebirth by force on the company, moving Marvel out of New York would be a good start
Lucas Lewis
-2017 >>Marvel starts their "Outrage = Sales" gimmick on the new crowd
What sort of gimmicks would these be, exactly? Got any examples?
Landon Richardson
I'll give them 3 years, they are basically bleeding money and trying to cover it up in a very stupid fashion.
Also I want to pirate the shitstorm that will come when they inevitably adapt a Miss Marvel movie and it flops beyond belief proving the comics can ruin the movie universe.
Landon Murphy
Captain Hydra.
Nolan Morgan
>Disney farms out Big Hero 6, a Marvel IP, to IDW.
This ties in to some conflict that happened somewhere between 2012-2014 between Marvel and Disney Animation over the direction of Big Hero 6. That lead to Disney taking control of the property.
Oliver Richardson
>it's a "company too big to fail fails" episode
Can't wait for Bendis and company to go to DC and get bullied into retirement immediately
Leo Baker
HydraCap Civil War II
Jace Russell
So Marvel is WCW
Remember, as much as Vince claims, WWE didn't kill WCW, WCW was the one who killed WCW.
Austin Roberts
It's kinda sad really. I /love/ Marvel, have all my life, but then they decided they didn't want my money. I was no longer the target demographic and the books started to suck balls. Disney saw this and soon all their characters will be licensed out, based off the MCU versions. The Marvel heroes I grew up loving are just going to be props Disney can pull out as flanderized shadows of what they once were just like my favorite character, Spider-Man, has become. Worse part is, we probably wont even get a proper goodbye. It'll just stop one day.
Just a reminder that everyone was claiming DC was finished during New 52, these things move in cycles
Chase Hughes
>>Ike tears down the Fantastic Four and X-Men, sacrificing huge profits out of spite
In fairness, Fantastic Four was one book, and usually sold somewhere nearer the middle of the top 100 than being a top seller. And the number of X-Men books they've been producing hasn't ever really decreased that much, it's other X-Men merchandise that they'd not entirely stopped, but greatly reduced. Marvel probably didn't lose too much money over those decisions.
If deliberately angering the X-Men fanbase has resulted in a lot of readers quitting, that's another matter.
>Disney farms out Big Hero 6, a Marvel IP, to IDW.
For some reason, ever since the movie, Disney have prevented Marvel from doing anything at all with the Big Hero 6 characters, this has been going on since well before 2017. Did Disney produce their own in-house Big Hero 6 comic before this?
Years from now, it's going to be very interesting to hear the tell-all stories from people who were inside Marvel, watching as it all burned down around them.
Dominic Bell
makes sense either way really
David Gutierrez
I can't think of anyone who should be blacklisted from industry that currently works in Marvel. Judging them on merit would be an effective blacklist for 90% of them tho.
Gabriel Miller
No.
Marvel will turn it around. It has to bottom out first.
Toxic elements in the company will have to be removed and a lot of ass kissing will need to be done but by 2020 they will have righted the ship.
Asher Brooks
The New 52 isnt even remotely comparable to Marvel right now, dont make false equivalences.
New 52 was sudden, had a harsh response despite financial success, and was corrected over the years.
Marvel has tainted its very core over the better part of a decade.
Xavier Morales
>the rest of the company is a PR nightmare and hole of lost profits. they still makes Billions of profit per quarter. I doubt the comic division is eating into that. Call me when they make CRATERS of lost profit
Wyatt Myers
>when cycle requires Marvel admitting that they've made mistakes don't stay late waiting for santa claus
Grayson Gray
Superior Spider-Man and Captain Hydra instantly come to mind
Gabriel Murphy
Doesnt matter, if its a liability, then it gets cut.
Its also, again, a PR nightmare that, due to the shared branding and ownership of IP's, can negatively impact the movies.
Bentley Hall
IT ALL RETURNS TO NOTHING
IT ALL KEEPS TUMBLING DOWN
TUMBLING DOWN
TUMBLING DOWN
Hunter Edwards
>tfw I really like their 'new' old-school styled adverts >tfw they aren't gonna make me buy anything because the writers are still the same
Zachary Baker
Spider-verse.
Connor Diaz
Yes. Fuck them. 20 years of underachieving and waste should be enough justification. >muh old timer He's burnt toast who will never turn a profit again
James Wright
>if its a liability, then it gets cut. >fortune.com/2015/10/08/disney-marvel/ good thing its not. Funny how all the assmad in the world over "Marvel has tainted its very core over the better part of a decade." doesnt change the fact profits are up after their acquisition of marvel. Tell me again how Sup Forums being upset effects Disneys bottom line?
Cameron Murphy
in a few years Marvel is going to be just a film studio I've been a comic nerd since the early 90s. I've been through Spider Clone, Onslaugh, and Avengers: the crossing all shit but this feels different, it's not just a bad story arc. it's like nobody at Marvel even gives a shit anymore
Nathan Green
>shallow >pedantic
You were watching family guy again, weren't you op?
Asher Hall
First off, that was two years ago.
Second, that would have included when the MCU Was still part of the company, which it isnt.
Third, again, its a Public Relations NIGHTMARE.
And the comics bleed money like nothing else on this earth.
Marvel Studios makes money.
Marvel Entertainment bleeds money.
Matthew Howard
Good article from two fucking years ago before rebirth and a shit ton of other events that caused the bubble to pop
Trolling is that hard, do better
Xavier Morales
Plus almost all the meddling came from Perlmutter and his toadies. Hell Chris Evans considered extended his contract with Marvel Studios after Fiege broke away from Entertaiment.
Jackson Gutierrez
I was telling someone this the other day. Marvel feels lifeless. It's the same writers shuffling work among themselves. Soule, Ewing, Bendis, Bunn, Guggenheim, Aaron have touched just about every Marvel property.
It's horrid and it saddens me because I want to like some of the ideas but the executions are trash and you can tell no love or effort was put into the work.
Hickman LOVED the F4, even though I didn't. Reading some of his stuff today you can still tell. But Bendis put his actual daughter in a book and it still feels like a chore to him.
Andrew Stewart
>Article from 2015 when any and all statistics and profits would have included those of Marvel Studios, which split off in the middle of that year. >Ignoring everything that happened in the last two years >Ignoring everything that happened in the last year >Ignoring everything that happened in the last fucking month.
Gavin Williams
Like people overstate the problems Marvel is facing, but lmao they are in deep shit currently
Wyatt King
All of this and I'm still pulling twice as many Marvel titles than I am D.C.
Anthony Hall
>Like people overstate the problems Marvel is facing They're literally barred from using one of their own IP's because Disney thinks they're too much of a bunch of fuck ups to handle it.
(Big Hero 6, btw)
Ayden Davis
All of those 1990s stories people still complain about, the people working on them genuinely wanted to entertain fans, were passionate about the characters, and were making honest, if misguided attempts to keep them relevant.
The absolute worst Marvel comics from the 1990s still feel like they were trying, compared with the soulless agenda-pushing of modern Marvel.
Michael Edwards
>How long do they have left?
Forever. Disney won't let them die, you need comics to say you're basing your movies on something.
Rather than scrapping them, the Mouse will eventually force them to shape up when they become too much of an embarrassment. It's just hard for them to do at the moment because Perlmutter is on an insane, spite-fueled rampage.
Evan Foster
>lying on the internet
Michael Gomez
>could mean pulling 1 DC book and 2 marvel books. >could mean 0 of both.
You'll have to be more specific user.
Jacob Sanders
I'm a battered housewife X-men fan but the X-men relaunch is blah at best and the Jean fixation is a major turnoff. There are no Marvel books in my pull list anymore.
James Perry
>Forever. Disney won't let them die, you need comics to say you're basing your movies on something. Yes, but not Marvel.
They already outsourced a Marvel IP to IDW, its only a matter of time before the whole company is shut down and the comics licensed out to competent teams at other companies.
Matthew Ramirez
>Disney is hurting so bad right now because marvel >ycharts.com/companies/DIS/profit_margin >stocks were worth 26$ back when they bought marvel and theyve been hovering at 100 since then >theyre sure to dump marvel now to get back that sweet 26$
Dominic Martinez
Oh, lmao I got owned there
Cooper Campbell
Stop blaming everything on Ike. He doesn't do shit for the comics division except some general directives.
Quesadilla and other clueless execs are the problem.
Marvel hasn't been good since the 80's, you were just either event fanboys in the 00's or moviefags in the 10's so you happened to be the crowd Marvel was pandering to for easy cash at the time.
Now it's young adults and women instead of you, so now you know how every other abandoned group of fans felt when they ditched them to mindlessly pander to you.
Logan Watson
Stop ignoring the points faggot.
Marvel is a PR liability, it doesnt make money, and they're an embarrassment. When they were involved with the movies they were actively discouraging actors from resigning contracts
Marvel Studios is the only "Marvel" brand company that has good PR and makes good money.
MARVEL STUDIOS IS NOT MARVEL ENTERTAINMENT.
We're talking about Marvel Entertainment.
Nicholas Ortiz
Bendis has a black daughter?
Brandon Wilson
3 from DC And 5 from Marvel, forgot Venomverse ended last week and that I added Mr Miracle
Julian Smith
>Stop blaming everything on Ike. Fuck no, its his fault that all of this has happened.
HE ordered the Fox mandates.
HE gutted the editorial staff.
HE fucked up the relations with Kevin Feige and Disney.
HE allowed what Marvel is now to get as bad as it is.
>Now it's young adults and women instead of you Their highest selling book recently had only half the sales of DC's highest seller so the jokes on them.
Liam Lopez
>Marvel dying >ever
WORST CASE SCENARIO they gut the current editorial body, fire some dead weight writers and proceed to either go back-to-basics with storytelling or just having comics solely to promote movies.
I don't think anyone would have trouble accepting Secret Wars 3 as the official end of Marvel Comics considering the shit that followed it.
Connor Miller
Ike is a notorious micromanager
Christian Taylor
Yes. These writers at Marvel have been doing alot of self-inserts and it still feels like shit.
Isaiah Carter
Marvel wouldnt "die" in the traditional sense, no, but the whole company would likely be razed and their comics licensed out instead of done in-house, in a sense killing what it currently is and replacing it with something entirely new.
Michael Morales
I say they fire all the dumbfucks currently at Marvel, then hit the reset button. Pull a New 52 or Rebirth or some shit on Marvel Comics, and get some competent people writing good stories again.
And by that, I don't mean manchildren who try to live vicariously through the characters they're writing for, and make them single after years of marriage because it doesn't make them relatable TO THEM. We do not need another Slott or Quesada on the writing staff.
Levi Ross
It's interesting to see people come in from outside. They really try to give their all for a book, make something well thought out which fits into canon and has hooks and set ups for afew years of stories. Then the book gets cancelled or derailed 10 issues in and the writers leave, never to be seen again. It's not surprising that the people who do stay just don't give that much of a shit anymore.
Gabriel Sullivan
Ike really needs to either be demoted or "promoted higher within Disney".
Firing editorial was a huge mistake and led to divas (Bendis) and the rise of the SJW writers/artists.
The X-men brand might actually be permanently damaged. Inhumans as well based upon how badly the series has been taken by the public.
TLDR; It's past time for Disney to clean house.
Ian Allen
Wasn't there that writer for Spiderman who made Peter Parker look just like him and Mary Jane look like his daughter?
Isaac Cox
Miss Marvel would unironically make 100 million more than Captain Dykecut.
Gavin Nelson
Quesada, I think. He did that, then divorced them by means of literal devil magic.
Josiah Edwards
A lot depends on what they do post comic con.
This year really should be the wake up call they need. Their retailers meeting was a disaster and will only get worse once the supposed video hits the internet.
The mouse should absolutely be taking notice. Especially with how the general internet has shifted into anti-Marvel over the last week.
Matthew Torres
>The Death of Marvel Comics
Jeremiah Scott
They will find a way of fucking it up, Marvel always finds a way.
Henry Parker
...
Ethan Davis
And they wonder why we stopped buying.
Jace Sanchez
The Greg Horn cover is easily the worst of those three images, though.
Oliver Russell
The Carol Danvers Ms Marvel would. Kamala would be a ...difficult... character to sell to around half the US population, and a lot of international audiences.
Andrew Rivera
One is a pandering turbo dyke that could have been great, the other is impossible to market to your average western audience.
Let's face it, they have to go old or don't even try at all.
James Lee
Depends. Some of them (not related to creative content or Administrative decisions) should not be banned. But Quesada, Slott, Bendis, all their lazy as fuck "Editorial" team should be.
Ike is untouchable.
Brandon Gonzalez
who do I need to fellate for an ongoing of Spider-Man and the X-Men?
Xavier Jenkins
They survived the 90s and the MCU and new Star Wars movies guarantee a somewhat consistent amount of overall sales. Even if they continue their current amount of idiocy they'll last until at least the late 2020s
Ryder Walker
I have been very random about reading Marvel Comics since my early days when I read every comic every week in the 80''s and early 90's but I remember thinking I hated Hickman's Secret Wars
looking back I guess that was fantastic compared to the utter shit they produce now
Angel Gutierrez
>and the MCU and new Star Wars movies guarantee a somewhat consistent amount of overall sales >the highest selling Marvel Comic is FUCKING SPIDER-MAN and it cant pull anything above 50k
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Luke Cruz
>it's like nobody at Marvel even gives a shit anymore DINGDINGDINGDINGDING any sane person would have given up and tried to salvage wathever he could long ago alas not a single sane person works in marvel
Gavin Ward
>>Big 2 collapse >>"Heh heh, time for the Indies to rise" >>Not realizing that Faith, Saga, and other shit is the top trending Indie titles.
Jose Richardson
this, I still have no idea why people think the Big 2 collapsing will somehow boost indies
>Holy Shit the comics I like are shit now >Hmmmm, should I instead focus on a bunch of literal who's I never gave a shit about in the first place or just complain on the internet?
Gabriel Flores
Muslims don't watch movies, and nobody else wants to watch a movie about Muslims.
Brayden Murphy
It wont boost sales, but it'll end the chokehold allowing for the industry to grow long term.
Only one needs to die for this to happen, anyway, since everyone else will try to clamor and fill that void Marvel will leave.
Connor Harris
Different user but aside from the last couple months I'm pretty sure Marvel consistently had 7-8/10 of the top 10 monthly comic sales (Batman titles were the top 2 though). Of course a good majority of that was Star Wars but I don't think Marvel's going to be any financial trouble for at least a few years.
Jason Nelson
>I don't think Marvel's going to be any financial trouble for at least a few years. They literally overship every book they sell to make it look like they have good sales figures.
One dude ordered 10 copies of Guardians and got 43 extra copies. Those sales arent legitimate, they're doing a lot worse than they want you to believe.
Adrian Torres
Jesus, FIVE? I cannot think of five Marvel titles worth pulling.
I'm seven DC, one indy and two Marvel.
Dylan Reyes
I wouldn't say consistently but yes, more often than not Marvel has dominated the top 10. DC demolished them last month but in August Marvel had 7/10 (Batman was 1-3 and the rest was Marvel)
Gabriel Nelson
A big part of it is...we've been overhyping the same Marvel shit for a solid decade. Look at how much Marvel has been pushing Thanos as this be all, end all threat, and for 5+ years, that's pretty tiresome. Or how we've been seeing non-stop Cap, Iron Man, etc. where you go, and their newest face is Spider-Man? A character who got pushed way too much since 2002 and fans can't make up their mind on how they want him portrayed?
Marvel better hope their post Infinity Wars slate is so different and refreshing, otherwise seeing Hydra strike again will illicit yawns.
Julian Williams
Remember though that those numbers are not legitimate.
Daniel Robinson
>B-but muh movie synergy
Gavin Roberts
Heck I thing most Muricans wouldn't want to sit in the same theater with Muslims out of fear of a bombing or a shooting.
Fear is one heck of a drug and pushing a super hero with that much baggage will tank hard in the eye of your average American that likes to see blockbusters.
Andrew Johnson
FROM 2011 TO 2016
-Avengers vs X-Men -Cyclops kills Xavier -Wolverine dies -Bendis brings the O5 back from the past, effectively killing the possibility of progress for the real New Mutants (Quentin Quire, Genesis, Hellion, Surge, Armor, Pixie etc) -Cyclops dies from Terrigen Mist poisoning -Cyclops is considered to be like Hitler -Maddrox gets killed too for shock value -Age of Inhuman push comics. The good guys are the ones who are gassing mutants to death. Inhumans detonate a terrigen bomb on earth, poisoning the atmosphere, with mutant killing clouds the size of Australia traveling around the planet, and they are the good guys. -Emma Frost is turned into a crazy evil widow villain who commits genocide with Sentinels built off panel by brainraping Forge off panel, because that was the only way to make people sympathize with the Inhumans
it is a miracle XMen comics still sell, but then, after that half a decade, they sell less than Green Arrow or Wonder Woman.
Julian Diaz
But that's the thing. The synergy made the brands stale because there was so much overindulgence.
Mason Rogers
I actually like Quentin a lot and wanted him to get more exposure. I also liked Kenji, a pity they killed him.
Nathaniel Rodriguez
They are still not shithumans, most folks only continue because they invested on the brand.
However it's still a shithole beyond belief.
Jaxon Martin
No, some of them have done good work at DC, like Charles Soule
They just need good characters and a loving environment again
Levi Roberts
all this is completely new for the people coming out of the movie theaters and into a comic shop there is no excuse for these sales when your comics are attached to movies with hundreds of millions in marketing you heard what retailers said, people come into the store looking for the characters iin the movies but cant find them and walk out without buying anything
Jackson Gutierrez
What. Who the fuck was this? People hated the start of 52 but none of it out right raped the characters or lead to this type of shit show. The biggest conservstioy was superman losing his undies and the attempts at hyping Pandora.
You had some "not muh" bitching but with the exception of the JSA, it was pretty standard comic fanfare moaning. If anything, the superman family temporary getting a hold of all the rights to classic superman was bigger news.
Kayden Roberts
>cartoon fags People who read have access to all sorts of words.
Aiden Butler
DC had industry heavyweights circa New 52 though
Marvel just has Bendis, a bunch of bloggers and Tennessee Coates