OK fags. This is probably the worst place to ask these kinds of questions but you never know what the fuck you'll find. Fifteen dollars an hour, so many politicians are pushing for it, but just from a common sense point of view, it doesnt seem to make any goddam sense.
>raise wage to 15 dollars an hour
>everyone makes more money
>except CEO's and boards of directors
>their employees now drain twice as much money from their bonuses, or assuming CEO isnt a crusty piece of cocksnot, it actually effects the ability for a small business owner to operate
>they need to pay other companies more money for goods since THOSE companies have to pay their employees more money
>cuts into their bottom line
>that shits not gonna fly
>double the price of almost every thing that can be sold
>milk is now 8 bucks a gallon
>so is gas
>a shitty sit-down steak restaurant meal for two is now nearly a hundred dollars
>rent goes up because, fuck it, they can afford it now
>essentially everyone that was making minimum wage beforehand stays at the exact same economic level
>but people that were doing decent for themselves, suddenly get dragged down to the same level as the people flipping burgers for doing other decent jobs like Paramedics, metalworkers, plumbers or nurses
>if we avoid that by raising the pay for everyone across the board, then all we succeeded in doing was devaluing the dollar by half
I know alot of politicians are pushing for this bill, but it just looks to me to be an absolute cockwaffle of an idea. I have to be missing something.
15 dollar wage increase, what the fuck am I missing here
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yea, you are missing alot about how the economy works. commodities like Milk and bread are perfectly competitive markets, so the first company to sell their gallons of milk at 8$ are the first to exit the market. That will never happen, i can garuntee essentails like that wouldn't have increased costs.
Yes this is how forcing "fairness" onto the market works. It doesn't help the poor, but instead drags the middle class into a worse economic situation.
If everyone is poor then we are equal. True equality of outcome can only be achieved by destroying others.
>bs
Im no economist, but history repeats itself, as soon as salaries rise, price of food raises, if the price of food raises, price of transportation rises (here at least, since public transportation is still core to daily life), and from there everything else raises.
Some prices dont raise, those of things that arent core (and as such not as high on demand), but food is the first to become more expensive.
Okay, cool. Why do you guarantee that. When employers suddenly are looking at paying double for their own employees, double cost on delivery fees/freight costs because the gas stations have to raise the price of gas to pay their employers so the truck companies have to charge more to afford the gas, what keeps the price of everything from going up?
They did that at some local businesses here.
My friend and I went to the Burger King earlier this week. Instead of humans working the registers, there were three touchscreens in their place. The former staff of ten was reduced down to three people. The whole make-line looked eerily abandoned.
You're not missing anything. It's a stupid goddamn idea. Machines are already replacing servers in shit chain restaurants like Chili's and Red Robin. A min wage bump will be just the incentive to ensure you're ordering McDonald's from a kiosk.
It doesn't really happen like that.
Prices (including wages) are based on supply and demand, not cost. For example, the price of mass produced items are largely based on VOLUME, not cost. Under "perfect competition" (which never exists) they will eventually be based on costs.
What minimum wage does is prevent people who aren't worth that wage from working.
OP here
Assuming the last statement is true, what would happen to the unemployment? Based on that, it would go through the roof, as employers would be unwilling to hire anyone not "perfect" for the job, which in some sense I can totally get behind, in another, would be horrible. Neanderthals and welfarite types (oxygen thieves) would either be forced to make decent human beings of themselves or rely even heavier on the government. I've seen too much of humanity to have much hope that the previous option would be likely, it would mostly be the latter. Which would make the country's dependence on the government even stronger.
Huh. New thought there.
I think that's basically what's happening I'm Seattle. A lot of unemployment not reported because people aren't looking anymore (and that's not counted as unemployment).
To top that off minimum wage workers now making 15/hr aren't below the poverty line anymore, meaning no more government handouts. So what do they do? Request 20 hour work weeks so they can make 15/hr and still get government benefits (which are clearly worth more than full time 15/hr).
Welcome to failure.
>raise min wag to 15
>all shit-tier burger flipping jobs get phased out
>your only options become useful services to society
>people learn to perform jobs worth 15 an hour
Can someone tell me why this wouldn't happen? It takes less than a day to learn how to work at McDonald's, surely with the massive amount of time we live on this planet and work, we can all push each other into more productive fields of work, right?
>everyone makes more money
>except CEO's and boards of directors
You forget stocks, stockholders, and retirement funds.
No city has enacted $15/hour fully, they've only passed bills that will have $15/hour in 5 years.
It's not the increase in the price of basic goods what you should be worried about (the change is insignificant), but the increase in unemployment instead. That's the real problem with such a big minimum wage increase.
Pretty much every store has self checkout as well.
>Prices (including wages) are based on supply and demand, not cost. For example, the price of mass produced items are largely based on VOLUME, not cost. Under "perfect competition" (which never exists) they will eventually be based on costs.
So what happens when it costs too much to make something or pay someone to make it and supply falls? Shouldn't demand and price increase.
Unemployment would go up, as would the unofficially employed (and higher immigration of unskilled), crime, prices (as productivity suffers). Nobody benefits except unions.
You forget that people are greedy lazy pieces of shit
Supply and demand are not quantities. They are schedules.
You can think of them as functions (although they aren't strictly as such). Basically at every price X, quantity Y will be demanded. This creates a hypothetical supply and demand curve (I say hypothetical because we don't know their exact shape; at best we know roughly a few points and maybe their slope). The point of supply and demand is to understand the effects of various things like, in this case, setting the price of labor higher by fiat. Much like any good, this causes shortages of that said good (an imbalance) which have secondary effects
I'll try to provide a more concrete example.
If apples were $2/lb then 10lb in total may be purchased a given day. If they are $1 then maybe 15lb would be purchased. From the seller's perspective maybe at $2 he would supply 15lb and at $1 he would supply 10lb. The pice tends toward whatever price will satisfy the most parties, thus it will fall somewhere in between in this case (assuming a free market). If you set the price of apples at $3 then you're going to have a lot of unsold apples because sellers will refuse to sell, and buyers will be unsatisfied too. This happened during the Great Depression where prices of agricultural products were set high by fiat to halt deflation, so they ended up with unsold cops and food lines (today the same issue can be seen in housing). Wages are just another price.
First off, if u raise it to $15hr that DOES NOT MEAN people making $16 or $17 will get a pay increase!!!
Your not bringing the poor up to the middle class.
Your bringing the middle class down to the lazy and poor.
>absolute cockwaffle
Fukn Rekt.
pretty much this.
I make about 15 an hour as a fucking schoolteacher why should some burger flipper suddenly make the same i make? This shit only serves to further the entitled attitudes of America's poor, what ever happened to earning your keep?
Why stop at $15? Why not $20?
They'll never ask for more than $15 because that's the welfare cliff.
burger flipping doesn't die, they just charge more since the market can bear more. What happens is that the guy working an office job who makes $15/hr now gets hired at McDick's because he's not high 24/7 and the white collar jobs move away because fuck paying office drones 25/hr to compete with McDonalds
In big cities in America and popular places like Hawaii shit isn't much cheaper at all than in Oz.
That's because of the huge retail rents shops and restaurants have to pay.
Minimum wage people spend basically all their money so the economy ticks over better.
I'm with the left on this one but you can not fuck my imaginary gf.
You're underpaid as fuck dude. Seems as though teachers get paid well in every country except the US.
It doesn't make sense why the scenario you posted doesn't actually occur. The graph indicates that wages have no effect on inflation, thus raising to $15 would not have the negative effects republicans claim to worry about. In reality they're against it because it hurts the rich and helps the poor.
You pretty much have it right OP. What you're missing is that the Democrats survive based on poor people voting. So they do everything they can to make more poor people.
Only retards think big corporations are going to give up their own money to cover the new minimum wage.
If you force them to pay employees more, they will reorganise, fire anyone they now deem non-essential, and probably automate as much as they can so they can just pay a smaller staff the same total they previously paid a larger staff.
GG liberals you just raised unemployment again.
Not to mention its small businesses that won't be able to afford these rates, especially when they're just getting started.
So well done you've now ensured the corporations only have each other to compete with.
>In reality they're against it because it hurts the rich and helps the poor.
That's why though
ahahahahaha okay dude
What if we taxed all rich people 200%
Think about it. We get double the amount of profit they make.
Then we can afford healthcare and education for everyone.
Also rich people are defined as anyone who isn't on welfare.
I believe this plan is flawless.
t. simpleton liberal
By raising the minimum wage, you raise the barrier to entry for startups.
This means you prevent any competition from gaining ground because there's no way to support a business when you have to pay shit tier workers 15/hr.
Only the giant corporations can survive such a rule.
This means you'll effectively give large corporations monopolies and make them even richer.
Oh but don't worry, jamal and jose will be able to afford that flatscreen they've been wanting.
They're pushing to erase middle class and make everyone poor. It's always been part of the globalist elite agenda.
Food prices in places that have raised minimum wage, such as Washington, are already skyrocketing.
Thats not even to talk to cost of living. Rent has gone through the god damn roof, and it's not only here. Look at food and cost of living costs in Washington or California compared to Texas.
First off, the"ultra-rich" people, pay little to no tax, due to loopholes in the tax code.
So increasing taxes by any percent doesn't increase it proportionally.
So the only people being punished are small business owners, while the rich guys laugh all the way to their "foreign" banks.
Of course, after this mini rant, I know your just joking.Right?
This is almost exactly what i was going to write.
Big business loves regulations and complexity, its the single most effective way of killing competition before it starts.
Your opinion isn't backed by evidence. You don't understand the basics of economics, that much is apparent.
Read this: democracyjournal.org
No I'm completely serious. Taxing everyone who isn't on welfare double the amount of money they make is a flawless plan.
Prove me wrong. Pro Tip: you can't
>you don't understand the basics of economics
Lets ask a non retard what will you do, pay someone $15 an hour or buy a robot to replace them that uses $0.15 of electricity a week?
Minimum wage work like quick service drive through will be replaced. Voice recognition software will get your order quicker and more accurately.
Drones will deliver pizza without the need for tips.
Say hello to more automation and less jobs.
Next thing you know liberals will be crying for quotas that require you to hire X amount of humans because everyone will move over to automating all minimum wage jobs.
The only way to make the middle class stronger is to implement tariffs on imported goods.
This is the main reason im voting for Trump.
>More manufacturing jobs
>More service jobs
>Shortening the labor pool creates higher demand for workers
>Less illegals higher demand and higher wage for shit labor jobs
>Everyone is making money and everyone is spending money creating more jobs
>Keeps small business from competing with big donors
>Creates an under class of unemployable people who'll vote to keep gibmedats
>Lets ask a non retard what will you do, pay someone $15 an hour or buy a robot to replace them that uses $0.15 of electricity a week?
How much does it cost to purchase and maintain the robot? What is the lifespan of the robot, how long until it needs to be replaced? Does it improve productivity? Does it deter customers?
>Say hello to more automation and less jobs.
You mean fewer jobs.
Greater automation also means fewer consumers. Fewer people in work means less overall demand, which means a smaller economy.
Automation is heading the other way in service industries. People prefer to interact with humans rather than computer controlled interfaces. Consumers vote with their feet, if automation hits the bottom line, it is reversed.
no, you're 100% right
democrats want the 15$ minimum wage because it ensures they get more nigger/hispanic/single mother votes because they're the only ones working minimum wage jobs over the age of 20, plus these groups know NOTHING about economics
it would literally bankrupt most of america and destroy hundreds of thousands of jobs
Lowering taxes is better for the people.
>more take home pay
>a more frugal budget
>doesn't come at the expense of employers
>Fast food is automated
>Automation means fewer consumers
I'm ok with people starving to death in protest of robots replacing minimum wage workers.
>it would literally bankrupt most of america and destroy hundreds of thousands of jobs
Total horseshit.
Minimum wage increases raise the level of overall demand. A modest rise creates jobs.
You have the cart before the horse. More abundant product lowers the price making it more affordable. Robots aren't going to eat the food; they're going to sell it
Lower taxes results in higher Government debt, and the hollowing out of State services.
see
>Greater automation also means fewer consumers.
You can argue with britbong about armchair economics. fucking cunts.
The main thing that no one mentions is that $15 an hour is still complete shit that wouldn't actually change anything. Acting like it's some sort of huge radical step forward makes no sense.
Minimum wage is a scam, the big corps will just automate most low income jobs(cashiers and what not) and cut there workforce massively. You cant stop CEOS from being cockstains they wont take a hit to there bonus they will just fire a bunch of people then the government will have to give those people welfare.
let alone the fact that the cost of living in different states drives average wages.
$15 would mean a lot more in Mississippi compared to New York.
It's a state affair the feds can fuck off.
Not everyone is getting paid less than $15/hr
I made $15 to be an emergency 911 dispatcher. If minimum wage goes up to $15, I'll fucking kill myself.
Why?
Minimum wage is SPOILER ALERT: minimum wage
Meaning, it is the lowest bottom of the barrel amount of compensation (that is legal).
This is a constant.
If you raise it, the market adapts to this constant.
In order to circumvent this truth, you would have to abolish the idea of a minimum wage; and further, for the sake of functionality, implement some degree of change to where it isn't needed anymore.
I was thinking the same thing that user posted. I'll try to explain I guess.
I sterilize surgical instruments, and I get paid 13/h. I live in Indiana, so there's no way this hippie bullshit would pass here, but let's just say Hillary wins and tells the entire nation she's going to buttfuck everyone with executive orders and the minimum wage gets raised federally to 15/h. You better believe I'd be going to my manager and demanding to be raised to around 20/h, otherwise why stay and work where I am when I could fuck off and earn "minimum wage" working as a cleaner and not have the stress of a fast-paced, skill-based environment?
>If you raise it, the market adapts to this constant.
Markets are dynamic, they are in a perpetual state of "correction". Minimum wage increases expands the size of markets as more money in the hands of consumers increases demand.
>In order to circumvent this truth
Truth?
The term you're looking for is: unfounded idea...
>Minimum wage increases expands the size of markets as more money in the hands of consumers increases demand.
hey lad you shot traybone
You're doing a shit job anyway. If you prefer a different shit job that pays the same, it's your choice.
say goodbye to small business who cant afford to pay $15 dlls an hour wages
I guess you don't study evidence based econmics.
irle.berkeley.edu
The map is not the territory.
The meanings of the words
minimum
and
wage
put together
amounts to a truth that was clearly explained in the post you just replied to.
I'm not arguing with you, but honestly I think you are either an idiot or you aren't even trying to learn if you don't understand that post better than you have shown.
wages under $15 an hour provide less than 1% of our total GDP. it will do nothing, in a bad way.
Small businesses have minimum wage increases offset by tax breaks. A minimum wage increase will cost them nothing.
If I was doing a shit job, I wouldn't get paid what I am now. Good job not actually giving arguments, so I guess anyone that makes under $15 right now will be stuck in poverty because hurr durr shit jobs.
We just need to go back to the gold standard or similar system
I say just wait until all essentials are fully automated and free
I've studied economics (part of my applied mathematic training) and development studies. I'm only concerned with evidence.
If reality doesn't meet the expectation of economic theory, the theory isn't worth the paper it's writen on.
Modest minium wage increases do not negatively impact employment. In fact, the opposite appears to be true: greater demand results in more jobs.
This isn't hard people.
$15 min wage comes from places with propped up real estate markets like Kommiefornia. The real estate developers and condo owners refuse to take a sane valuation on their assets so therefore prices and rents are abnormally high. They are pushing for the min wage to prop up their own assets.
Teachers are underpaid so that kids are not actually taught anything useful but merely brainwashed
>>except CEO's and boards of directors
You're an idiot.
A minority of employers even have those.
And they wont be the ones taking a pay cut I can assure you.
This will fucking gut small businesses and probably medium businesses too. Which of course is the point. It leads to further conglomeration and guess what? Even more money for CEOs. Now fuck off you fucking shill.
A shit job sterilzing equipment has more social kudos than a shit job cleaning toilets.
That's where you'll find the difference in "value".
Fuck those things I never use them.
They dont even work half the time.
I would rather have a person ring my shit up especially if theres a lot of produce, only thing that pisses me off is still having to bag my own shit because the other 6 dipshit millenial employees are standing around yapping, you know what fuck it you're right.
This
What we need to be doing is removing red tape shit so that smaller businesses starting out have a chance to enter the market and maybe compete with larger ones
When it takes $1million to comply with a bunch of shit like made up enviro standards then small companies are not going to be able to start up only companies that were rich before such policies were enacted are able to operate
Ultimately what (((they))) want is for us to be totally enslaved to their corporations with no option of starting businesses to compete
You're so detached it's laughable. You need certifications and training for this kind of work, plus a lot of experience and fuck ups are not tolerated because infection control gets involved and you can land hospitals in legal trouble if a patient gets an infection and it is then found out that instruments were not properly cleaned and sterilized. I will agree that it doesn't pay a lot but the hospital I work at pays less than the ones around me since it is not a trauma hospital and I am in school right now to work in the OR instead of sterilization. You are essentially corralling everything you deem as "shit" into one huge pond and not giving a fuck if the people doing the work value themselves as above minimum wage.
I can confirm this.
Seattle fag here. We have $15 an hour. A studio appatrtment is like 3k a month
>Nightmare glasses.jpg
Then the loopholes need to be closed
The first thing that needs to be banned is storing large sums in foreign countries. I would expand the treason charge to include anyone who evades large sums of taxes especially by putting them in foreign countries and anyone who outsources at the cost of home jobs
Also if I was the US I would fucking invade all those tiny ass "tax havens" making them part of the US.
>You're so detached it's laughable. You need certifications and training for this kind of work,
Indeed you do...
Your employer will add value to your job: more holiday time, shorter hours, perks and incentives, so you (a trained employee) doesn't leave to clean toilets...
They're brainwashed because teachers are dumbfuck libtard women. Nothing to do with how they are paid.
>>double the price of almost every thing that can be sold
Wages are not 100% of the cost of production.
I think capitalists should exploit you as much as anyone else
>DUUUUUU MUH FREE MARKET
>MUH NATIONS ECONOMYYYYYYY
The sad thing is there are so many artificial expenses and regulations that it's already fuck ass hard to start a business and hope for it to get any relevant size unless you sell yourself out to a giant corporation
Libertarians are pretty much retarded on all other issues but they know what the hell they're talking about when it comes to overregulation helping massive corporations and hurting the middle class and anyone wanting to start a business
You can get by the entire situation without even expending a thought if you simply remember that politicians are the worst people in existence and that nothing they push should ever be employed for any reason.
I actually prefer interacting with computer interfaces in terms of services it's just the old as fuck boomers who seem to shit their fucking brains out their ass and not know what to do whenever they see a computer
But I don't care about any of those, I just want money so I can have a roof over mine and my girlfriend's heads and so we can have decent food on our table. So what happens when Abdul Habib chops off your hand in the middle of the street and the hospital you're in is re-using the same orthopedic hand set that they've used 5 times today that was only briefly dipped in enzymatic soap and still has bioburden clinging to it because no one wants to be a sterilization controller because there's a multitude of other fields to go into that pay equally the same and don't require stringent qualifications and experience?
The market is pricing labour atm. below what it would price it in a competitive situation.
i.e. for a lot of businesses, paying their lowest paid workers more wouldn't jeopardise their business
There'd be an uptick in unemployment in the short to medium term, as businesses remove excess labour that was effectively only used as it was so cheap... but that's minuscule.
Obviously you need to be careful what you set the wage at, at some point it would have disastrous effects on the economy and would severely increase inflation. But I doubt $15/hr is the point at which you get that damage.
Oh the consumer who embraces the capitalistic consumerism and sees no other motivation in life other than what the adds tells you to do/buy
Perhaps a complete re-evaluation is at hand, about what in life is worth striving for
Welp... I'm from British Columbia and I did a little leg work when asked by my buddy who is a youth activist for the union.
I was researching an article about this very topic.
In British Columbia recently, the provincial government pegged increases in the minimum wage to any rise in the cost of living. This is a good step in the right direction, I think, because if you are going to do business in a world class city, you should expect to pay, it's that simple.
So, what if the minimum wage was tied to the cost of living from, say, 1964? I ran the numbers and if it kept pace, the entry level worker would be getting paid $12.64 an hour.
Tl;dr If minimum wage kept up with the cost of living it would be $12.64
I have $15 an hour is fair in a market like Vancouver, because housing is so fucking expensive.
burger flipping is gonna die nigga robots will take all the jobs
>overall demand
>this is what Keynesians actually believe
Even on the cheap shady side of town you'd be lucky to pay only half of that. I'm living out of my car just outside Seattle because everywhere is so expensive now.
Hi fellow BCer
Did not our min wage go up a few cents? It's still relatively low though
The thing is while $15 an hour might be fair in say parts of metro Vancouver and the island if I were to live in the kootenays for example and be paid $15 an hour I could barely work a few shifts a week at the local Safeway and live in a really really good rental with quite a bit left over
So I think the problem is it's got to be region based too
It's just treating the symptoms to force a minimum wage. Anyone who supports this idea is a complete idiot that is willing to destroy a vast amount of jobs because he wants a new iphone.
...