Regardless of how you feel about it now, was season 1 a fluke?

Regardless of how you feel about it now, was season 1 a fluke?

Not really. There are great episodes scattered through season 2 and season 3. It's main issues stem from production problems like executive meddling and creative conflicts.

Season 4 is off to a good start. Let's see if it keeps up.

Season 1 is not really any better than the others, it just benefits from being the "early days" and having to resort to less CW drama.

Absolutely. Everything following S1 hasn't been that great. Zoom was shit and so was Savitar.

Wally, I don't care that he's black but his actor is fucking terrible and completely devoid of any charisma. they need to ease up on the lame fucking romance subplots too... does anyone actually give a shit about Joe's romantic life? FUCK man

No, its the same as it is now. The problem is we were too lenient on it, thinking "Oh, Barry is new at this. I'm sure the show will get better." and it didn't. I don't know whats more annoying, team STAR Labs which is tacked on to give Barry a supporting cast, or the amount of characters they waste on this show.

I guess that really is the difference between season one and the other seasons.
The mystery subplot of the first season was good. There was a decent amount of tension and suspense around them finding Reverse Flash's identity.
Once that was resolved most or all of that airtime got filled with various romance subplots.

So far. The first maybe 1/3 of Season 2 maintained the greatness, but then fell off quick. the show has never been the same since. I've honestly given up on it.

The problem is that season 1 was based off of a great movie script and had that as a solid framework. Starting with season 2 everything seems as if they have no planning or forethought and are making shit up as they go.

Cecile causes no drama and is a qt shortstack. I like her.

>a great movie script

Eh...

This show died for me once I realized we were never getting the Rogues we deserved.

What was the line of thinking of taking two of the best villains from Flash's first season and never letting him fight them again? Cold and Heatwave had no reason being on Legends.

From what I can see, yeah it seems like there was the remains of a good script in there that was used well.

wellsobart saved it from being complete dogshit unlike the other seasons

What S1 did well that S2 and S3 failed at was the big moments. Pretty much every single big moment in Season 1 was timed great, executed nearly flawlessly, and gave the audience very little reason to question the writers.

From the second half of S2 and on, The Flash just got awful at its big moments. At pretty much every single reveal, every big fight, every "serious talk", the audience was left scratching their heads, wondering about how these things fit together and why other obvious outcomes didn't happen.

In every other area, Season 1 was as bad as -- if not worse than -- Seasons 2 and 3. But big moments get big praise, hence season 1's generally high acclaim.

Now, the main issue with all this is in asking why Season 1 did so well with its big moments/setpieces. And, I think, that's because Season 1 wasn't designed to be a mystery: we knew Harrison Wells was likely the Reverse-Flash within like 3 episodes. By comparison, Seasons 2 and 3 had these long, drawn-out mysteries that ended up immensely weakening big moments, because the story would be more interested in suggesting possibilities for the future rather than letting the audience and the characters soak up the awesomeness of the current moment.

Season 4 is the season with the highest possibility to get back to Season 1's quality (at least with big moments). We already know who the villain is; the team technically already knows who he is; and rather than the cast-and-crew playing coy with the viewers, they can focus on making the show good.

Honestly, I could forgive the past two seasons if they just let Cavanagh go. Harry wasn't as good as Wellsobard and HR was an annoying tool that served absolutely no purpose.

Because the writers are stupid, and felt it was more important setting up Thawne. Every other villain was merely a freak of the week and thus thought expendable. Whats even more disappointing is that CW writers constantly have to dumb down Barry for the sake of tension when he literally has a group of supervillains designed to nerf him. Moreover, The Rogues' costumes were just flat out lazy

I rewatched S1 after S3 ended. And S1 has questionable moments and scenes as well, the entire portrayal of Iris, namely, as being a whiny cunt that constantly endangers herself. also Barry being shitty to Joe.

But more important, the overarching is solid, keeps you on your toes and is intense every single episode.

Season 2 and 3 try to do this but just seem contrived with ANOTHER SPEEDSTER APPEARS AND BARRY IS STILL RETARDED.

Season 2 had one of the worst episodes ever. The one where Barry hands over his speed to Zoom for no fucking reason at all. lol Talk about stretching. Then the guy playing Zoom has this hammy orgasm on screen... fuck the second half of season 2 was a steaming pile of dog shit

p-patty...

They were very popular and "Legends of Tomorrow" was originally envsioned as a midseason replacement while "Arrow" and "The Flash" were in hiatus. Wentworth Miller even talked about how working with the Legends would be Captain Cold's inspiration to turn the Rogues into an actual team rather than just occassional team-ups.

But plans change. And not always for the best.

I think it was less that season one was a fluke, and more that they had a clear idea of what they were doing from the start, since they were basing it on that old movie script. The interviews in S1 were all about how they knew what they were doing, and that they merely had to extend the plot as they were given more episodes to work with. Later seasons have a rough idea of what they want to do from the start (for instance, Teddy Sears was indeed cast as Zoom from the beginning), but their overall ideas for the season are rougher and filled with dead ends (Patty/Mirror Master being cast for other things, or that one random cop in season 3 who only had one scene). So to compensate, they stuff the show with things regular CW viewers will love (drama, relationship drama, "we have to talk").

Season 1 was fucking crap. Watch it again from the start and tell me I'm wrong.

The stuff with Reverse-Flash was okay, but most of the season was Barry jobbing and falling on his ass. I think it was only like the second or third episode, he fights Multiplex who makes like 4 copies of himself and they just start whaling on him and beat him fucking senseless.

It's hard to watch

>he fights Multiplex who makes like 4 copies of himself and they just start whaling on him and beat him fucking senseless.
Yeah, that was ridiculous, but Barry being a bit of a dumbass was acceptable because this was his early days and we figured he'd wisen up after a bit. It helped all of his accomplishments feel greater too. The problem was that the writers didn't want to end team flash and so Barry had to become a retard. Notice that he's much, much more competent in any situation where he's alone (like 2x17, Flash Back, where he matches wits with Eobard) as opposed to when he has someone telling him to run faster in his ear.

Anyone else still mad that they flat out murdered Atom Smasher?

Season 1 wasn't even that great. It was new at the time so made it more interesting then it was after it's been going on for 90 episodes.

>Barry being shitty to Joe.

Never happened.

You people act like the Flash isn't constantly jobbing in everything he shows up in.

Here's the golden rule for speedsters; When a speedster is guest starring in another book, safe to say hes going to job. Now when a speedster is in a solo Flash book, or in this case his own show, they should be at retard levels of OP, so it kind of balances out. CW Barry on the other hand ALWAYS jobs, and for even dumber reasons than normal

The reverse applies to live-action. Barry is competent as a guest star and jobs as a main character.

>YOU'RE NOT MY REAL DAD
Happened like 2 times in the first 3 episodes.

Literally once.

It still made no sense in the context. Joe wasn't even being an asshole or overly controlling.

He was forbidding Barry from fighting crime.

Barry's not a cop! He didn't know what kind of powers Barry or what that could mean. He thought Barry was just going to get fucking shot.

And even then, you can call at your dad, but who the fuck says that to the man that raised you just because you're mad once?

Season one was only good compared to everything that came after.

Wally just needs something to define himself other than occasionally taking selfies with fans and suddenly being able to speak Japanese. The racing was a good start, but I guess they dropped it for being stereotypical.

She wanted to throw out his Jazz albums. A woman should NEVER touch a man's Jazz.

They can still revive Cold on Legends, Just have him be a time remnant. I'm surprised they didn't try that anyway, come to think of it. Heck, Nate could "rescue" Amaya by making a time duplicate of her to live out her regular life while he gets to bone the original.

I dunno. HR kinda grew on me. He was the one light of comic relief when EVERYONE was all moody and grim. And in the end, he was the real hero in stopping Savitar. :(

I think police forensic analysts are still police.

Yes. Especially since the breacher Smasher killed the Earth 1 smasher. Maybe he'll come in from Earth 3.

Regular people can't be remnants. They could just save Cold before he dies with some mcguffin. No one would care either because it's LoT.