What went wrong, Sup Forums?

what went wrong, Sup Forums?

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season 2 and 3 were bad, but I only made it 20min into season 4 episode 1 before turning it off.

Fucking awful.

Blowing the Thawne card season 1
giving up the rogues to Legends

Thinking live action superheroes can work on TV when it can't

We were too kind in season 1. Nothing changed, nothing progressed. We still have a fucking idiot, useless side characters, and no Rogues

All the good writers went back to Arrow or to Legends

Barry used the speed force to go back in time, fucked everything up.

>Implying "Arrow" and "Legends" have good writing.

legends is worse than both my man, I don't know how anyone can like it

Arrow
>oh boohoo the team doesn't trust Oliver
>oh no now Oliver doesn't trust the team
>Now he's banging Felicity
>Now he's not
>(repeat)

Legends
>Gotta save history by shooting lasers and superpowers during feudal Japan!
>Oh no Mister Rory fucked everything up worse than it was
>Stein or Sara or Ray comes up with a way to sort it all out
>Rip Hunter is dissapointed
>(repeat)

>SARA IS A BETTER CAPTAIN THAN RIP YOU SHITLORD, ALL HER ASSASSIN TRAINING MADE HER A NATURAL LEADER

>Should have been a miniseries instead of a CW show
>the first season adapted a script from a proposed flash movie, giving it a more coherent plot compared to the previous ones

>what went wrong?

No one told me there is dish soap theme after Flash. Barry Allen time blast.

Nothing. It's got double the ratings of Arrow.
Leading ratings show for the network, and is leading all other superhero shows on the network.

I loved season 1, thought season 2 was mediocre, and ditched it less than halfway through season 3.

Is season 4 worth my time?

It's one episode in, but it was a fun episode.

want some spoilers?

>wasting end of season cliffhangers by resolving them in the next episode
>every season has a speedster villain
>any drama comes from people acting out of character and suddenly disagreeing with each other
>wasting Snart

Hit me up, I'd rather know what I'm getting into.

Next episode looks decent; more importantly, we know who the season villain is (The Thinker/Devoe), and it's only a secret to the Flash team, similar to how in S1 we knew that Wells=ManInYellow=ReverseFlash fairly early on. So I'm confident that, on the superheroics front, the show is heading in a good direction. Drama also seems to be in a nice direction -- the writers have some idea of what to do with Caitlin, Cisco seems less annoying, and they've given something for Iris to do (lead the team).

>barry had to go into the speedforce at the end of season 3
>gets resolved in the first episode of season 4
>instead of giving Wally his time to shine we just see him job and they instantly go for rescuing Barry
>he talks some weird glibberish, possible spoilers for future episodes
>team goes back to status quo

How could you watch that first episode and not think Iris is a massive cunt?

barry is back to being happy, faster than ever thanks to time spent in speed force (faster than wally), thinker is the main villain (no speedster)

Maybe when tech advances further enough that they can do high quality special effects for cheap Super Hero movies and show can be more up to snuff.

this show would be so much better if it were animated. it would allow for so much more zany comic book shit.

>Geoff Johns

Also, way too much fucking time travel. Last time I watched an episode Sup Forums had made a flow chart explaining we were currently in our 8th alternate timeline.

Also, also. The time travel didn't even follow a set of consistent rules. Barry runs fast and somehow replaces himself in the past. Barry runs REALLY fast and can team up with himself? The fuck?

>(no speedster)
>implying they won't reveal a speedster is the real villain behind the thinker all along

She really wasn't. The team, before Barry returned, was just Cisco and Wally. Sure, Wally is fast, but this was his first time as a serious, non-temporary, full-time hero -- and the team didn't have a Wells or even Caitlin.

She had to keep them in check. Period.

...

No nudist Caitlin.

>Wallyfans still salty

>People liked the first season! Let's do the first season again!

Over-reliance on the familiar.

There's a right way and a wrong way to do it. Do it right and go back a few days, you erase yourself. Do it wrong and go back a few days, you create time clones.

I'm not even a Wally fan, i'm just salty that they hint at big changes and then barelkly give them one episode. I was more angry about flashpoint

Her cunt behavior was after barry came back or were you not there for the live thread?

their team behavior was pointless. They were living mcguffin to get barry back so he could save all their useless asses.

Which just goes back to peanut argument that you could remove almost all characters and the show would be fine. Probably even able to grow if it could shake cancerous CW formula.

CW Wally is not the character Wallyfans care about.

Like, in any significant way. He just a guy with the same name. As relevant to the comics version as Felicity Smoak is to hers.

You're the one according it ramifications.

The actor is just too lame. You would think after two season the actor would be a little more comfortable and charming in his role. nope. The guy who plays Wally is the biggest drag on the show. this isn't a race thing either, i love everyone else.

he was more interesting when he was an angsty asshole.

As is..he's kind of uninspired whitebread.

It's a D.C. Show on the cw, it was cursed to begin with

Killing best boy Eddie in the S1 finale

But seriously S1 was already wonky and only elevated by Wellsobard. Sup Forums only gave it a pass because it was more fun than the DCEU. It peaked with the first Mark Hamill episode.

Wellsobard was so singularly elevated everything about the series that it was like starting out on top, only place to go is down. Even his single episode in season 2 made to show how weak that follow up season was and they obviously knew it which is why they tried to copy the first season.

strawpoll.com/gg6dbr5

Story-wise, they went time travel and parallel universes too soon, so they fall back onto that all the time and everything feels weightless because of that.

Overall, it's too fucking repetitive. Even within the same season you have many episodes that are exactly the same. Season 1 was ok for a show's first season but it's supposed to go up from there. Flash keeps getting worse and worse.

You forgot
>Sarah thinks some ancient history lady is hot

Oh run fasta.

Shit story arcs. Bad characters. Wasted villains.
LoT is only good if you enjoy the banter between characters and the corny plots.

another thing man

if i fuckin hear "Run, Barry, Run!" one more fuckin time in this show im gonna flip a table

why did that one line fucking stick? kevin smith was really jerking himself off when he thought of that clever "sit, barry, sit" shit i bet.

They gave us season 1 three times.

Geoff johns left as a writer and was moved up stairs at dc. So they basically gave the berlanti boys the run of the arrowverse witch turned it in to a shit show literally.

zen134237.zen.co.uk/The_Flash_1x01_-_Pilot.pdf

This. The show didn't realize how much it depended on its villains.

Why do they always introduce some interesting plot element and then resolve it immediately in the first episode? Couldn't they have kept Barry gone for at least 1 or 2 episodes, so his return had actually an impact? Couldn't they have kept him being out of his mind for a couple more episodes and made it a cool and satisfying moment when he finally got back to normal after some shit goes down? It felt so fucking cheap and stupid that all it took was "Iris is in trouble!" and he immediately is the old Barry again.

unless that spoiler user is right and he's not actually barry but barrysobard

Nail on the head.

They had a chance to work Flashpoint into bringing Thawne back too, but they gave him over to LoT as well.

Wasn't there some trailer for this season where Barry sounded like evil Barry / Savatar? I can't seem to find that one again but I could swear I saw it some weeks ago.

>We were too kind in season 1. Nothing changed, nothing progressed. We still have a fucking idiot, useless side characters, and no Rogues
I will never understand why Sup Forums gave season 1 such praise. It had the same faults the following seasons did, except Sup Forums seemed to ignore them and focused on ZOOOOOOOOOOM and OMG THAT WAS A REFERENCE TO THE COMICS

not sure spoiler user was focused on how barry could know interlac

I always thought that and came to the conclusion that it's because they don't want to risk the ratings dropping not showing the main character. It would be good, imo, but a lot of people would turn off after 2-3 episodes of WallyFlash. If he was more interesting and they pushed him more, maybe. But they haven't, stupidly, not right now.

Legends should have brought Mick back to The Flash at some point in S2 and once Thawne brought back Len, they should have gone with undoing his death and brought him back to do a full Rogues for S3, versus the crap that happened.

There wasn't a problem sending them to LoT, it's that LoT should have been an anthology show and should have brought different people on board. Why bother casting and making uniforms for all those JSA people if they weren't going to use any of them for more than 2 episodes, for example.

Then there are a lot of stupid tv executives on each of the broadcast networks, Hulu, Netflix, Amazon, etc. etc. and millions of stupid people watching who aren't as on the ball as you.

Didn't even Arrow manage to pull it off to have Ollie be gone for 1 or 2 episodes when they pretended Ra's killed him? Or they could always have shown a few scenes of Barry inside the speedforce to show the audience he's still there.

>and they've given something for Iris to do (lead the team).

She's a failed college student who didn't/hasn't graduated, former coffee house barista who got a job on a newspaper not because she could (a) write, (b) had a journalism degree, but merely because she had a blog with clear connections to the biggest newsmaker in the hometown of said newspaper that offered her a job. She proved pretty shitty as a journalist. She's got no business being NuWells.

I'm not saying don't give her something to do and I'm not saying comic books and live action adaptations of same aren't absent logic, but this is just way too much.

Arrow did do that, but Flash is their biggest cash cow right now and Arrow at the time had been far surpassed by Flash season 1. I think Arrow could take some risks like that and by putting Barry away could/probably would, put them on a bit of a spiral they may never come back from. I think even this season's premiere didn't do as good as last seasons. Might as well drain the show for all it has while they can.
Flash just doesn't have the BALLS!

He was also fine as a victim of Savitar, which was pretty much only 1.5 episodes and just used for him being stupid as a plot device. His relationship with Jessie is also fine - they should probably just port him over there and let them live together or something and get him off the show and make him reoccurring - they could create a six episode mini Teen Titans with them, a Robin type kid, a Wondergirl type and make it very Silver Age as a substitute. They really have WAY too many non-leads around.

NOPE

user here has it right. Johns is a large part of what is wrong with the DCW, of shoving shitty ideas like Flashpoint on the show runners, because it's his crappy canon. When they make the live action Flash movie based on that shitty idea, that means it will be the THIRD time he's gotten a Warner Brother's subsidiary to pay him money to use the name and minimally or tangentially adapt his 'magnum opuS'-HIT

I wonder how much he'll be pushing Doomsday Clock once that's done

>Atom Smasher is a villain and dies in the first episode of season 2
Fuck. That.

user you know it's true he left and the quality went down hill on all shows,don't be mad at him for getting paid you would do the same. C'mon tom

First season made barry learn too much too quickly, so that subsequent seasons he had no development.

They should have kept eobard/wells rolling through to the end of season 2, rather than throwing him in straight away.

Too many speedsters too quickly.

Forcing Iris when Barry and Caitlin had better on screen chemistry.

Flashpoint was awful.

Diverting rogues to Legends of Tomorrow

Adding a new poochie every season.

20 something episodes and mediocre writing.

You wanna know what you usually get with that many episodes? You get more filler.

Filler, which is a dragging episode wherein Barry gets told to run faster near the end to beat the villain of the week.

Rinse and repeat and it gets a bit tiring and waning and is only exacerbated by mediocre writing which can't think outside the box. Quite frankly, it just stinks up the series.

The obvious solution, IMO, is to cut the Flash's episode count down into around being a 10-16 episode season. That's a lot less filler being put into it, and even mediocre writers should churn out something decent with that.

>best girl with almost 1/5 the votes
good taste Sup Forums

>Didn't even Arrow manage to pull it off to have Ollie be gone for 1 or 2 episodes when they pretended Ra's killed him?

Not really. He still showed up in Katana's shack recovering while everyone thought he was dead.

He left halfway through season 1, before the show's apex episodes.

Chunky Frost is cute!

THIS ROOM IS BITCHIN

Wally has fans?

>what went wrong, Sup Forums?
Johns only working on season 1.
Their only real mistake was making a villain so good in their very first season that everything after will seem lame by comparison.

>Flashpoint was awful.

Multiversal constant.

This. She hasn't stripped in a long time I think it's time to return to that and possibly try and steal Barry from the most annoying women in CW.

The savitar shit was dumb should have been the actual one from the comics and I think if they did the whole he makes the villains for flash for the entire season it would have been better. Then in this season they could do the reveal of who he is and shit.

they used up reverse flash because they didn't think they'd get a second season. I bet the writers shit themselves when they got a second season.

Yep.

The OG writer left? Why does this always happen on CW shows?

I kinda can't wait til she gets a little older, because she looks like a lewd mom already

She should've been Iris West!!! FUCK!!!!

Her and Grant were qt during that S1 karaoke song

Batman 66 begs to differ.

Captain Cold was really a highlight for me. Now he is gone.

Season 1 didn't end with IT WAS ME BARRY. I DID IT TO MAKE YOU A BETTER HERO and everything else was just downhill from there

Most of the filler has been more enjoyable than the overall plots of Season 2 and 3.

The one great thing about this show is that because of Speedforce fuckery, if an actor decides to drop out if they just want reboot- it can all be explained through timetravel fuckery or lol speedforce.

im not too concerned with the quality drop right now. im still kind of stoked the show even exists.

That's true, and I see a lot of people saying she should have played Iris, but in that case the only difference is that her cuteness would be wasted in playing a bitch. The writing for Iris would still be shit

>Wally becomes the flash after Barry leaves
>He comes back next episode

arrow
>we just learned last episode to not have secrets that could ruin everything
>one guy on the team is keeping a secret that ruins everything
>ok we learned our lesson not to keep a secret that could ruin everything
>NEXT TIME ON ARROW: one guy on the team keeps a secret that ruins everything
>ALSO: we'll try to be dramatic by making it seem that oliver might die in a flashback

flash
>new villain appears that isn't a speedster
>flash gets punched in the face and villain runs away at 7 mph
>barry decides he's escaped despite the villain being out of view for only a few seconds
>gets emotional support despite being one of the most powerful superheroes
>decides to actually use his only power of GOING FAST and easily beats villain
>speedster villain for season was behind non-speedster villain doing things

So is the CW faggotry where all the Barryfags hang out?

Too much soap opera bullshit. Not enough friends overcoming the odds.