People have been saying for years how the Internet and sites like YouTube make it possible for independent cartoon...

People have been saying for years how the Internet and sites like YouTube make it possible for independent cartoon creators to be seen, but I've yet to see anything to convince me its a viable option. If you don't count Netflix and other closed platforms, the last semi-relevant web cartoon was Happy Tree Friends, which hasn't been relevant for a decade. There are other web cartoons on open platforms, but they're very rarely mentioned even on Sup Forums and dedicated cartoon communities, let alone outside them. If indie cartoons were the future, the scene would be growing exponentially, but that's not the case - it's stagnating, if not declining.

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Youtube wants to become the new TV. It started with the Adpocalypse and cause many content creators to move to Twitch.

Youtube is also going through some shit because it's been caught several times giving preferential treatment to content that fits a certain political narrative so they can get kickbacks.

Ex. When Casey Niestat made a vlog about starting a fundraiser for the Las Vegas massacre victims Youtube decided to cut ad revenue to the video because it "violated their guidelines concerning shocking content". The very next fucking day Jimmy Kimmel did a segment on the exact same thing, loaded it onto the show's Youtube channel, and not 5 seconds into the segment you had a Chrysler ad.

tl;dr Youtube has become Jewtube, Sup Forums was kind of right, go to Twitch if you want to make money acting like a goof in front of a camera.

There's no fucking way for indie animation to take off. People have tried it but production costs/time and lack of returns just makes it unviable.

Indie animation just isn't ready yet. It'll be there someday, just not yet.

...
You realise that Twitch is a site dedicated to gaming livestreams, right? It's kind of useless for someone who wants to make an 15/30 minute animated series.

Not true, I've seen a couple of artists do their livestreaming on Twitch with some success. Vivzie comes to mind, I know she's a furfag but it proves my point.

Don't forget that weird time indian nursery rhymes became big due to their strangeness, and ability to mess with youtube algorithms, which cause other YT channels to do the same and created "toy channels".

Youtube used to pay indie animators really well. Then they changed their algorithm to favor "length of time watched" instead of "number of watches". It seems like the sweet spot for money making is somewhere around 10-20 minute long videos 2-3 times a day, and that's just not possible for indie animators to do on a regular basis.

>Indie animation
Don't ever expect anything better than the flash shit on newgrounds. Ever. Unless they work as a team, they can't produce more or better, it's just too much for individuals.

We're talking about independent animation here. Livestreaming yourself drawing is in no way equivalent.

Oh yes, the psychotic wonderland that is the "family" section of Youtube.

>9M views and counting

That only addresses half of what the post said, and it still doesn't change the fact artists aren't the intended audience.

The 10 minute mark is where your video gets monetized. If an animator didbnake a 10 minute short film, it's unlikely to see a return from all the time and money spent. Some creators will use livestreams to show them working on their films and answer questions while they draw or edit or whatever. I don't see the appeal, I don't think it works.

Don't forget that you can literally find actual fucking child porn.

Eh, fine. The only other option out there is something like Patreon or another type of crowdfunding site and that's if you already have a large enough following.

Money isn't even the only concern. A YouTube cartoon has almost no chance of getting anywhere NEAR the audience a TV show would get, and probably won't be remembered in 10 years.

If you're creative enough, you can low-budget art look high-budget. Some art became what it is *because* the creator had limited resources to work with and had to improvise.

There are cartoon channels run by companies, like Cartoon Hangover, who are able to upload frequently, but even they rarely get mentioned here.

>I've seen a couple of artists do their livestreaming on Twitch
those are called "faggots who don't know what picarto is for" and no twitch isn't going to eat picarto just yet
also as others have pointed out that has fuck-all to do with nonstreaming content

well, i'm sure you found that purely by accident then promptly reported it to youtube after masturbating yourself blind

this is changing nowadays, tv viewership is declining while internet use is skyrocketing

>while internet use is skyrocketing
But Internet viewership is not.

>this is changing nowadays
No it isn't. Read the OP post.

idk, youtube and twitch at the very least are growing really quickly

fastcompany.com/3048767/youtube-growing-fast-viewing-time-is-up-60-since-last-year

Remember when the Bee and Puppycat kickstarter sold it as the first in a new era of internet cartoons that were gonna cut out the interference of network executives and keep content a matter between the creators and fans? I had so much more hope back then.

>Remember
Nope, I've never heard of it, which ironically proves your point that it didn't really do much good.

It is when you are like me and only livestream on Twitch when you are, you know, drawing out and animating said animation. Actually, to meet you in the middle, I will share a little secret; I make more money through Twitch ads, subs, and donations than I ever do in YouTube ad revenue once I upload the entire finished animation and monetize it. I repeat, yes, I make more money live-streaming working on the animation than I do from actual ad revenue once I upload the finished animation.

It wasn't always this way, hell, I used to make nice money from Newgrounds and YouTube shit when I would upload animations there, but, sadly, Newgrounds is on its deathbed (sorry Tom) and YouTube already made it every clear with their multiple changes that they couldn't give less of a fuck about art and animators and they only want vloggers, reactors, let's players, unboxings, and toy review channels on their site because that makes the most money and it makes it consistently and it plays into their agenda on every level, including politics. I have no hate for YouTube, but, yeah, I have no hope for it in terms of the art community and, god-forbid, Independent Animation. You want to make enough money to keep the lights on? Well, better have decent Internet speeds, cause your ass is gonna be on Twitch, streaming the entire animation work load.

I've checked out Cartoon Hangover and to be completely honest, the writing is kind of subpar to TV shows.

It makes me wonder, if someone DID release a YouTube cartoon that was as well written and animated as a professionally-produced TV show, would this create a new revolution or would it just be buried in irrelevance?

>You want to make enough money to keep the lights on? Well, better have decent Internet speeds, cause your ass is gonna be on Twitch, streaming the entire animation work load.
Unfortunately for me, I have an unpleasant voice and am not good at doing stuff on the spot. Part of the reason being independent is so appealing to me in the first place is that I'm not expected to have the amazing social skills needed to make it in a massive industry.

The trick to beating Yiutube’s algoritm is to make an animated short at least 30 seconds in length weekly, and upload it as video with ten minutes of your old material. That’s how you handle that watch time nonsense.

I keep hearing people talk about how streaming animation is a lucrative endeavor, but it hasn’t really been for me. Still gonna keep trying though. I stream on both Twitch and YouTube, but maybe I should focus on just Twitch, since they have more monetizeable opportunities.

That was there attempt, and regardless of how good the product was, they realize an ad based revenue model, is not enough to cover that level of production “quality”.

>That was there attempt, and regardless of how good the product was, they realize an ad based revenue model, is not enough to cover that level of production “quality”.
There are other ways to make money off it, like merchandise.

Content creation is irrelevant, content aggregation is everything, and the only other people who tried to aggregate online animation were newgrounds.

bump

>tfw youtube didn't just kill animation, it also killed online horror narration, alternative news and online shows talking about history.

>Can't have a completely honest and unbiased educational channel covering WW2 because any Nazi symbolism could potentially get your channel taken down

>Same with the American Civil War and that other flag

>Even if a video gets immediately restored over a dumb robot takedown mistake you can't receive any sponsored content for 2 months, greatly cutting into your overall revenue

YouTube deserves to implode.

Hope it happens sooner than later.

>cartoon hangover
you mean the "studio" that got Bee and Puppycat kickstarted 10 episodes for 200,000$ and then only put ouy 4 episodes and now you need a subscription to see the others?

The future of Internet animation, independent or otherwise, is on streaming platforms like Netflix, Crunchyroll, Amazon Prime Video, and more. Like said, high-quality animation on YouTube was attempted, but an ad-based revenue model won't cut it.

Studios working with streaming platforms has also helped to revive dead genres. It's awesome to see action cartoons come back to life with shows like Voltron, Cannon Busters, and more.

Adventure Time

I'm sorry but that show turned everyone into copycats. Nothing is different from the basic formula of "kickass mc with sidekick go on adventures and talk like cool quirky people in a wondrous land." So everything looks the same, nothing is that interesting, animation gets saturated, and then the animator either gives up or goes to live action or let's plays.

It's mind boggling that once animation is deemed not lucrative for that person they entirely give up. No more animating, not even trying. For those that do stick around you get the bare minimum in talent and hacks relying on e-celeb VAs to get attention.

So you have shitty, bland writing and generic AT character designs and animation. Even that one animation with the kickstarter is like that. You got notDipper trying to save his generic brown sister(?) from an evil warlord and will have to journey to a wondrous land to save her with his quirky sidekick.

But thats fucking wrong, Bravest Warriors for example is incredibly well written and animated, Bee and Puppycat, other random animation from hangover.
Or even outside of hangover there's Rooster Teeth's Camp Camp which is really good, and RWBY which is not good but is popular. Then there's shows like Dick Figures, which managed to get funding for a full movie (which was amazing), or Cyanide and Happiness.

Random indie shorts and short films get good amounts of views, like that indie faggot one people shilled here a while ago.

Tons of animators and artist making (way too much) money from Patreon

Also, excluding Netflix animation is retarded and arbitrary.

So what if there was like a Saturday Cartoon channel on Twitch and they got shows from independent creators? There has to be some kind of way to make it work.

Still salty about the character design changes.

It's because the longer the video the more money you get now

>character changes
seriously. og was perf no need to fuck it with SU style

also their excuse was "hur animation takes a lot of time and effort"

they're an animation studio so no fuckin shit.

and those spiderman elsa videos

I blame jewtube for that, but yes.

Both China, IL and Rick and Morty started out as web cartoons, didn't they?

Nobody outside Sup Forums has heard of any of those shows, and even *inside* Sup Forums it's only a few of them.

Keyword: started
They didn't become culturally relevant from web views.