Is anyone bothered by Princess Caroline's arc sending the wrong message?
She's the hardest working and most focused cast member in the series. In many ways she's a role model and especially for women who want to have successful careers. So why did they have to go down the "can't have a family arc"?
This is mostly a problem because in the last season she has difficulty getting and staying pregnant. And when alternative methods are brought up she dismisses them for...no reason? I'm not kidding, there was no reason stated for why she wouldn't consider them.
It's just kind of a shame and something that Sup Forums would jack off to. The career woman not regretting having a family. It's just too out of sync with the rest of the show yet I haven't seen anyone criticize it here.
Choices by nature eliminate their alternative. This is not always egalitarian or comfortable.
Jaxson Perry
i don't think "sending the wrong message" is an valid criticism of fiction.
this shit is happening to her because she's the only one in the cast it could happen to since diane would just get the little guy aborted.
i'll agree they didn't really sell me on her rejecting other options outside of natural pregnancy, but she's a rigid character and it's something she's not going to compromise on. the whole show is about self destruction and that's what she's doing.
Kayden Phillips
It sets up for her getting knocked up by Mr Peanutbutter before he commits suicide in the final arc of the series.
Ryder Ward
Sending the wrong choices? It’s a tragicomedy for adults. Fuck off back to the Disney Channel OP.
Michael James
She was too proud to accept alternative methods, which is because she's such a hard working and driven woman, who had made it through lots of challenges in the past, so to her accepting alternative methods would be the same as giving up.
And just because she's hard working and arguably the only "good" person in the cast, that doesn't mean she deserves anything.
Kayden Barnes
Bojack Horseman isn't trying to send a message, you fartknocker.
Joseph Garcia
>Sup Forums would jack off to it more like the opposite, /r9k/ would maybe.
believe me, successful women being afraid of having children leaves us with more accidental teen pregnancies and creates broken households that go on to create broken, easy to manipulate people which is exactly what """they""" and by extension SJWs want.
Owen Parker
>successful women being afraid of having children leaves us with more accidental teen
Noah Evans
>And when alternative methods are brought up she dismisses them for...no reason? It's not no reason, it's just no GOOD reason. She's attached herself to the idea of continuing her family line, and what starting a family would look like, Ruthie showed that. At the end of the season, she was actually warming up to the idea of other options like adoption, and I wouldn't be surprised if season 5 has an arc about her looking to adopt.
Oliver Garcia
user more and more women don't really want families no more because they feel children are just getting in the way of them and their careers
it's the reality we're living
Isaac Sanchez
The fuck does that have to do with teen pregnancies.
Julian Sanders
ah,i see my mistake. it doesn't leave us with MORE teen pregnancies, but it leaves us ONLY with teen pregnancies.
Noah Wilson
-> that and the "fuck all you can" mentality is what actually leaves us with more teen pregnancies
Thomas Ramirez
im curious to see what they do for her character in the next season I could see here arc realizing that just because you work extremely hard in life, doesn't mean everything will go your way. I could see the point that coming to acceptance with this and making the best and adapting to the cards you're dealt, being here main arc in the coning seasons.
Lucas Lee
But that's kind of a lie, considering the fact that having a family has been a huge deal for her since her at least her late 20's.
Luis Clark
I thought the mesaage of her arc is even if its hard you sometimes need to rely on others
Zachary Thompson
She refuses alternate methods because she's too proud for them. Only accepting birthing a child of her own because that's "what real women do." He idolizes the past women in her family and wants to continue in birthing like they do. The message is the opposite of what you think. It's a critique about how old-fashion views on what a family needs to be creates strife and depression in otherwise successful people.
Caleb Ramirez
i think the point of PC character is that she focuses on success but has her entire life struggling for that she forgets the other goals she had keep in her life which are having kids and starting a family, it is a reflection on today's society specially on women who want to be or do something to feel satisfied but in the end they aren't that really due to the mother instincts, it is a bittersweet experience and im not saying is bad but if you are willing to sacrifice some aspects in your life to succeed in your goals, you will have to be prepared and never back out unless you are willing to leave all that behind. It is not an easy topic
Chase Edwards
>Complaining about mainstream media What the cunt did you people expect?
John Ramirez
Can I help you?
Chase Thomas
With what, dare I ask?
Ian Edwards
You just seem to be lost and confused.
Ryan Gomez
Princess, like every member of the cast, has problems that are self inflicted. Most of her issues stem from her need to prove herself to no one and win in the marketing rat race. Her entire life has been completely wasted on a career that ultimately has meant nothing, to the detriment of her nonexistent family and flimsy cast of "friends."
The point of every character in Bojack is that while all of them are self destructive, they can't escape it because that's who they are. Princess could quit her job, move and start a family, but obviously she's not going to. She could try harder to have a kid, but doubling down on running her life into the ground because that's who she is, is more in character.
It's actually good writing, treating them as people. Actual humans behave the same way. We fall into roles we create for ourselves and then become trapped by them. Having characters radically change or suddenly get everything they always wanted is just wish fulfillment, and not really the place of a show like BH.
Austin Peterson
we live on a Dystopian world, the most boring kind of dystopian world ever.
Samuel Rivera
>And when alternative methods are brought up she dismisses them for...no reason? I'm not kidding, there was no reason stated for why she wouldn't consider them. You are trying to reason with a deep biological need that existed before we even started to develop a brain. Literally.
This is what she want, there is no need for justification. And there is no contradiction with her being a role model. There is no "duty", or "check list" to adhere. Independent woman is about giving women choice and if it's what she chose to do, there is nothing wrong with that.
Nevertheless, there is still an attempt of answer to your question: she is success craving. He life style is about facing adversity and trying again and again up until she meet success, even is she fall down along the way. No matter how many time Life bitch-slap her, she will keep going on.
She had a idea of how her pregnancy should go and would simply consider deviating from this vision as a failure, as giving up and she can't accept that.
Add to that her idealized vision of motherhood is her own mother who had a big fucking litter and she can't fathom to not meet that standard. She get mad at her boyfriend before considering other method is like giving up, it's like admitting she is not as good as she is trying to be.
Luke Ramirez
Based upon what?
Owen Evans
>Her entire life has been completely wasted on a career that ultimately has meant nothing
Why does a career mean nothing when another want is also there? She wants a family, she wants a career. That doesn't mean the career meant nothing, in fact, her career meant a whole lot in her life.
Thomas Roberts
Well you wandered into this thread and are ranting about the "mainstream media" when nobody was talking about that and Bojack Horseman isn't really "mainstream".
Like is this a character you are playing? If it is, it's adorable and I'll cherish it forever.
Nicholas Rogers
>Bojack Horseman isn't really "mainstream". It's a show on Netflix, yes it is.
Justin Mitchell
To her, her career is everything. It consumed her whole life.
Objectively, her career of finding sleazy jobs for scummy actors has been pretty meaningless. Her inability to have a family is a reflection of that wasted life.
Noah Jenkins
You should be glad you fuck, that's the only thing that is saving us from overpopulation. Or do you want every female to pump out out 3-5 children and for our population to double in just 20 years?
Jeremiah Martinez
If you want to go by that definition just about every cartoon is mainstream outside of like, web animations or arthouse stuff. But again, nobody was talking about that and you just wandered in here. I saw you talking about the "mainstream media" in another thread, so I guess that's your big deal, that your character hates "mainstream media".
Bentley Edwards
>You are trying to reason with a deep biological need that existed before we even started to develop a brain. Literally.
I have a deep biological need to fuck every hot woman in my surrounding. Rationale is out the window folks because it's just hardwired in me.
See how stupid that sounds?
Connor Cruz
This is actually what most feminists believe so yeah.
Brayden Kelly
Do you know how many shows Netflix has? No, because they have like a thousand. Not every show is Orange is the New Black. I've never once heard anyone outside of Sup Forums mention Bojack and believe me, normies love to talk about crap they're watching.
John Allen
Considering most career women are intelligent and white/Asian while most women who birth out hordes of children are Latino/black and poor/dumb, I'd say yes.
Jack Brown
The trends just mean "less civilised people" in the future, Nigeria is set to have a population equal to the US in less than 100 years, and given that it'll probably still be a dump then, it's going to be a crappy world when the vast majority of people are poorly educated third world morons who just want the gibs from the ever-shrinking first world.
Connor Ortiz
>I've never once heard anyone outside of Sup Forums mention Bojack you never been to the fb groups but there is nothing much to talk except todd's asexuality and "memes"
Jonathan Williams
>If you want to go by that definition just about every cartoon is mainstream Exactly.
>outside of like, web animations or arthouse stuff. Most of which supports or seeks approval by the mainstream.
>I saw you talking about the "mainstream media" in another thread, so I guess that's your big deal, that your character hates "mainstream media". What's with you saying I'm playing a "character"?
Netflix is mainstream media. There are obscure shows on mainstream networks, doesn't mean they're not mainstream media.
Ryan Evans
>I have a deep biological need to fuck every hot woman in my surrounding. Rationale is out the window folks because it's just hardwired in me. We are talking within the context of consensuality. Once e know we are allowed to do something, we tend to fall back toward our more primary instinct when it come to fulfil our desire.
Josiah White
>What's with you saying I'm playing a "character"?
The 2 options to me are that you are playing a character on the internet or you actually think and talk like this.
I'm choosing the one that is the most flattering to you.
Charles Perry
>only thing that's saving us from overpopulation kek nothing's gonna stop third world countries from overpopulating the planet
maybe except the geniuses that will now never be born because educated women no longer want kids
stupid people still create broken households user
Aaron Russell
The option most flattering to me would be one where I'm serious about the truth, not joking about it.
Kayden Clark
That's such a goofy answer that I'm convinced you are playing a character now.
Easton Young
Yeah, I'd lay off the Soma. It's making you say some funny things.
Justin Fisher
Whatever you say, I'm sure the people must know about the "truth" concerning "mainstream media" must be heard!
Any further "redpills" to share with us?
William Myers
Diane is the worst character but at least they didn't kill her entire character like they did with Todd, the entire season was Todd focusing on something so meaningless. I get the feeling his asexuality was really forced because Todd is only too oblivious or uninterested since he is immature and immature people don't really care for relationships
Jose Sullivan
Yes, for one, "redpill" is a fucking stupid term. It's a reference to another piece of mainstream media, The Matrix, made by two men working in Hollywood who just happened to be trans in the 2010's.
Robert Johnson
>nothing's gonna stop third world countries from overpopulating the planet Except the natural declining birthrate that comes with developing countries. youtube.com/watch?v=QsBT5EQt348
The natural decline has already started even in the less developped country and as it is, we will never reach 12 billion.
>because educated women no longer want kids That's the total other way around.
More Developed country -> higher cost for education & lesser child death ->rising cost for a child education ->lower child rate as more money is invest in less kids that have better chance of survival and taking care of you -> less babies to take care of ->more free time for women who don't have as much kids to put effort into ->more educated women.
It is not educated women who cause lower child rate, but lower child birth rate that has the consequence of having more educated women.
Ian Green
I felt the same way, I feel like it was just something about his life he really didn't care about, it kind of felt out of character for him to start going to "asexual meetups" and whatever else. In fact, everything about Todd this season bugged me, like him just goofing off and causing problems for everyone else was retarded enough, but he never got called out for it which the show usually tries to.
Like, the whole fracking thing was his fault, he was just being childish about the "Sign stuff for me" thing Mr Peanutbutter said, he clearly meant "Don't be a dumbass" but because it's Todd there's no consequences for his actions. Actions that lead to Zach Braff being killed and eaten, but it's Todd who was responsible and he's just an innocent goofball the whole universe loves.
Andrew Jenkins
At least some asexual people are happy for getting representation. But I agree, Todd was always a joke character and his one serous bit is not being interested in poon-tang. Which is not very interesting for the audience.
Logan James
that's the kind of stuff taught in middle or High school, how come everybody doesn't know that already.
Benjamin Fisher
god i want to fuck her and the mouse
Cooper Cook
That's because they aren't career woman but farmers/housewifes who can afford to pump out those babies. Every country that industrialized has experienced a birthrate drop for the very reason I mentioned. Woman that have to work a 9-5 job can't pump out and take care of 5 kids.
This video explains this better then I ever could.
Jace Bailey
Actually it's from Total Recall (and arguably G.E.B), but I guess making a minor mistake like that is a clever misdirection woven into your character.
Any more wisdom to share with the classroom or are you all tapped out for now?
Gavin Rodriguez
>nigeria >able to afford anything
opinion discarded
Carson Powell
China was a total shithole 50 years ago you know. ..
Luis Peterson
I'm pretty sure that most people think of The Matrix when they say "redpill." Either way, it's origins are from mainstream media, and it's ridiculous to use it to mean you're free from mainstream media's influence. Now stopthis condescending liberal bullshit of acting like what I'm saying is just an elaborate joke.
Evan Myers
i can understand these people wanting a representation for them but i think this representation was pretty weak and im not even asexual, it felt force and i could say is baffling just how easily amused they can be just to throw that word in a cartoon, it doesn't feel like this is the reason why Todd is who he is because the past seasons Todd is only a man with no goals and slacks a lot but has potential and his weakness is that he waits for something or someone to push him to develop those strength he has. Todd is just one aspect of society that represent people who gave up or simply never developed something to do with their life but luckily had found shelter and comfort under someone's wing and they won't change that in fear to kill his character. Also I gotta love the poly-amorous gay couples and I think most people missed that but this is a thing within gay people who are now into open relationships because most can't function in a monogamous relationship since they have nothing else to do except to adopt a child, i don't know if this was intentional or accidental or maybe im reading too much into it
Noah James
This is a city in Nigeria. Get up to date.
Grayson Hill
>a 30 year-old woman with her husband's/partner's aid can't take care of a child in a developed country
Cooper Ross
oh don't worry, let me direct you to google so you can search touristic spots in brazil
haha so beautiful, nevermind the hundreds of thousands of miles of favela that is the rest of the country, where the majority of the population lives.
Grayson Thompson
>can't take care of a child in a developed country This is in absolutely no way what I said, and you should really work on your reading skill comprehension so you can understand better what people say.
Henry Perez
Poor farmers who can barely grow enough food for their family are the kind of people who pop out 5-7 kids. Who knew human life was so cheap? The point is that if we encourage woman to have children at the expense of their careers, not only will the economy slow down, the trend of birthrates decreasing as the country develops is going to reverse and birthrates could increase as the country gets richer and more developed.
Which is bad, because as bad as the world seems. Almost every country is the world is slowly developing and getting better. You see what is happening in China. India and Brazil are next, in like 20 years and their birthrates will decrease as the middle class increases. Same for Africa, they are going to be the next China in like 50-100 years.
If developed nations are pumping out children at the same rates we were 50 years ago, but with the money, technology and medicine to actually make sure those children survive to adulthood then say hello to a world where the population doubles every 20 or so years.
Hunter Walker
Beside the point. It was a reply to someone stating Nigeria can't afford itself anything. There are huge inequality issues in less developed counties, but that doesn't mean they don't have some wealth.
Lucas Allen
Isn't that a standard comedic trope? The hard working businesswoman turns into a cat lady.
Jason Price
>It's sending a message I don't like so that means it's bad How about find a reason to criticize something besides your personal politics? "I don't like the message" is not a good reason to dislike something. People like her exist in real life. The show is about people getting gut punched by real life in between the funny shenanigans.
Benjamin Gutierrez
>you will never fuck a cute mouse boy's ass while he's fucking his wife, getting him off in ways his wife's pussy could never do.
Sebastian Perry
I wouldn't really call G.E.B "mainstream media" but that's ok, it's in character for you to be wrong in that way.
So you've come to warn the users of this board against liberal mainstream media by "redpilling" them? That's pretty funny Mic, how do the Jews fit into all this? Maybe I'll be a little concerned if I see you pulling the same routine a couple weeks from now, but for now I'll write you off as a novelty.
Aaron Howard
I'm wondering how old OP is. I'm in my 30's and I see a lot of women in PC's situation.
Gabriel Jenkins
>when some fucking college kid thinks he's smart because he regurgitates what his idiot professor told him
John Turner
No.
anyway. Bojack and Diane deserve eachother. The miserable self defeating pricks.
Wyatt Carter
Probably in their early 20s so the idea of being a biological failure doesn't really occur to them yet
Leo Collins
except...you know... there's a point where they're already consdered educated, their biological clock is still a-tickin and they still choose not to have children
Nathaniel Johnson
I actually had no idea what Gödel, Escher, Bach was, so thank you for correcting me. However, in the book, they use phials, not pills, so the term does, in fact, originate in Hollywood mainstream media. Also, not having read the book, I can't tell which does which, so a "red phial" might not have the same meaning as "red pill."
Grayson Russell
>some random user on the internet disproves 50 years of data on population trends in every developing country in the world
Good for you.
Chase Turner
Good Wikipedia read Mic, I look forward to seeing your goofy antics on this board in future!
Thomas Howard
-->
Landon Gutierrez
>dumbass thinks that it's actually possible for every country to be developed when India is projected to have 2 billion people by 2100 even at the lowest estimate
Seriously kill yourself
Isaac Campbell
Not just my idiotic prof. Basically every god damn studies made on the matter.
But who am I to argue with someone's gut feeling on the partial knowledge he has on the matter?
Eli Hernandez
well you and i very well know that where people are popping babies left and right is not where the pretty picture you posted was taken, rather the ugly parts of the country the photographer conveniently wasn't assigned to take pictures of
Aaron Flores
I am an educated 35 male and do not consider having kid either, might never will.
Those are trends, they do not explain behaviour on the individual level.
Dylan Clark
>appeal to authority
Yes everyone will adopt western ideals and we'll all be nice first world countries where having kids is expensive, that will totally happen. Which neglects the fact that even if that did occur the population of africa under your "trends" is still projected to double over the next 100 years.
Easton Adams
It's shitty health education and weak access to places that sell BC that lead to teen pregnancies.
Joseph Evans
I told you, I haven't read the book, and there's no other reliable information anywhere online.
Back on topic, why do you support mainstream media?
Jose Flores
no they don't. only reason Bojack wants Diane is because she's the only one he opened a lot to but in the end the relationship will be miserable but diane was only doing her job to write his book. Diane is a mess, she doesn't know what she wants, she is married but doesn't like the idea of being a housewife, she was about to have a kid but she decided to abort it.
Camden Rodriguez
>Which neglects the fact that even if that did occur the population of africa under your "trends" is still projected to double over the next 100 years.
And projections are complete memes. Murrica was supposed to be Italian majority but I don't see Gabagoole as a staple of the American diet or olive oil scented condoms.
Blake Lewis
>well you and i very well know that where people are popping babies left and right is not where the pretty picture you posted was taken That doesn't change that the situation even in the worst countries has been improving in the last decades and the birth rates reflect that.
Nigeria id far from perfect, but most of the population away from the big cities, who has an higher birth rate, actually live in a not so horrible way through self-sustaining farming. You want an actual shithole, check somalia. And the issue there isn't so much baby popping, but the constant waging conflicts that forbid any long standing infrastructure development.
Evan Russell
user Idnia's birth rates are ALREADY low its jsut that due to sheer size it still will increase. Brazil surprising for an inefficient state is great at healthcare shit like family planning and BC and HIV reduction/medication and their Birth rates are pretty low too.
Brody Garcia
>>appeal to authority That is not what appeal to authority is. Could you at least get your fallacies right.
>Yes everyone will adopt western ideals and we'll all be nice first world countries where having kids is expensive I don't know if it's western ideal, but the current observed trend is indeed a lowering childbirth basically everywhere in the world, with a rising cost of education.
> Which neglects the fact that even if that did occur the population of africa under your "trends" is still projected to double over the next 100 years. Which, by the way, our production of food is completely able to sustain.
Evan Cook
Only if you're a Han and only if your first born is a boy.
Easton Ramirez
Did the guy I was replying to deleted his posts or did some mod decided what he as saying should remain in Sup Forums?
Hunter Lee
>Moving the goalpost this hard
You got a source there buddy? India, like every other developing country is already lowering it's birthrate. It's still growing of course but it would have been a lot worse if they had kept the birthrate 50 years ago. You do know that our peak global birthrate was so high just 50-60 years ago that the population was doubling every 30 years right? Even if what you say is true India already has 1.2 billion people, adding in 800 million over 80 years isn't bad. In comparison, during 1975-2010, India population doubled from 600 million to 1.2 billion, just 45 years. In fact, India's current growth rate is 1.2%, which ranks it 94th in the world.
Blake Rivera
a mod banned him because he was too competent and non-pc arguments that contradict theirs are racist
Elijah Reyes
Oops, meant to reply to
Nathaniel Edwards
Quick! We have to turn this into a proper Sup Forums thread! Post pictures from the show and talk inappropriately about sex.
Cooper Morgan
I don't think the women in this show are all that well written to begin with, frankly. Most of their ambitions seem to be dependent on the men, for one thing, and serve a foil to them more than the other way around. They're flawed, nasty, irrational, and only get justified because the other characters happen to do or say the wrong thing in the moment.
I mean, Peanutbutter is the greatest guy in the show, Diane is constantly lying to him and in some cases outright avoiding him (lying about being home from abroad for months was super fucked up.) And yet he has that fatal flaw of not listening to her, lending credence to the idea that their marriage is flawed on both sides of the street. Even though PB tries to make her library fantasy come true, she hates it, because now she has no fantasy, she hates grand gestures, etc.
And then you have Carolyn, whose very profession requires her to be dependent on Bojack or PB or Rabbitowitz or Jonah or whoever. She keeps her baby status a secret from Ralph, but because he suggests alternate methods out of concern for her desire to have a child - a decision that's going to affect him too mind you, as the baby's potential father - she can then accuse him of not supporting her and only wanting things easy and this leads to the break up.
That's not to say the men aren't fuck ups, but if being a strong woman is pushing people away because you chose to do it, hell, Bojack is an excellent role model.
Ryan Cox
Am I the only one actually worried byt he opposite of overpopulation? That's it, if there is a cap at 12 billion is worrisome, how can we become become a space faring species? How can we colonise new worlds if our population stop growing?
Hudson Thomas
What is the difference between an agent and a manager?