Ben 10

I want to talk to someone about Ben 10 (the original one only please it's the only one I've watched)

Ultimate Alien > Alien Force > Omniverse > Original > Shit > Reboot

Good for sickfuck fetishists but thats about it. Insufferable characters, annoying voice acting, lazy animation, and it layed a significant role in the end of times for quality kids shows

I... I liked it.

...

Personally, i thought the 2005 Ben 10 was one of the last good shows before everything went to shit inn2006

Yes because it's not like shows older than Ben 10 were shitty and had lazy animation...like say, Mucha Lucha.

There is a board for discussion about kids cartoons. Anime is barely tolerated, you're dreaming.

Mucha Lucha, despite being more reliant on gross out humor, arguably had more soul. It was all crashing down at the same time anyways, one flash animation reliant studio enabling another and so on.

Truly, the last great kids shows were probably Foster's, Billy & Mandy, Flapjack, early Adventure Time, and early Regular Show

the intro theme was so unique and weird. What the hell was that vocal effect the singer used? A phaser/flanger?

I guess. I feel like the kids now will be going "remember Teen Titans Go and Uncle Grandpa? Now those were good shows, cartoons suck today." in the future.

> (the original one only please it's the only one I've watched)
Not gonna happen, but I'll try.

The bug dude was cool and had a cool powerset. I wish he was used more.

The OS in general had some great one-off villains.

Youre limiting yourself and the thread if you only want to talk about the OS.

Give the others a try. You might just like them.

Was this thread moved or something?
How many people do you see saying Squirrel boy or Ghostbusters were good? People will use the best shows of this generation and ignore that TTG and nuPPG existed.

He got a little cameo toward the end of the series in the negative 10. He let himself get mutated by Dr. Animo, but after that, we never saw him again. I presume it was because his there was nothing he could do that could be done on a larger scale with Animo

How many good shows does this generation even have?

And do they get aired more than once a week, in deferment to TTG episodes?

Nothing more tempting than obvious bait.

>That list
Mate, I fucking Loved Alien Force, but they had a lot of avoidable fucks ups, as did all of the other sequel series. The Original is above them all solely on the basis of not having any gigantic screwups.

Depends on who you ask. Early AT was pretty good imo.

The original set the standards. It didn't have anything to screw up.

True, AT will definitely be remembered fondly.

Ok anons.

OS Vilgax was pants-shittingly terrifying for a 10 year old's villain.

God knows they didn't do a good job of it in UAF, and Omniverse shattered whatever reputation he had left. How would you have kept his intimidation factor up for later series?

First, I disagree with the notion that Omniverse "shattered" him, it was just picking up UAF's pieces, and did an excellent job. But I digress.

The best move would have been to not use him at all in Alien Force. They knew that they were getting ultimate alien, save him for then. Build up the suspense, have some throwaway lines from Plumbers and the Highbreed about his empire. Don't show, don't tell, imply.

Then, late in UA, instead of the Diagon/Sir George arc, have a Vilgax arc. He's spent five years expanding his empire (no single combat bullshit, this is old-fashioned conquest), and is now launching an invasion on multiple fronts of the galaxy, largely the same areas weakened by the Highbreed. The Plumbers do not have the manpower to respond effectively, so every invaded system has to fend for itself, more or less. The season would be Ben traveling around the galaxy, helping to stop Vilgax's various invasions. The final fight would be the one alluded to in the first Ben 10,000 episode.

>that encounter with Ma Vreedle
>omniverse didn't shatter him

We'll have to agree to disagree.

I do agree that they needed to build him up behind the scenes though. That was part of what made him so effective in OS. He was only seen rarely. When he showed up, he meant business.

As for a vilgax arc instead of a diagon arc, I see no reason why you couldn't have both. The only difference being that Vilgax wouldn't pretend to be diagon, as he's been fucking off in space and being a warlord. Maybe have him be AWARE of Diagon, and plotting off on the side to use that as a distraction, or a way to weaken Ben and make Earth easier to conquer.

Ma Vreedle had that effect on everyone, not just Vilgax. It was less meant as a dig at Vilgax as it was to show the reputation of Ma.

I get where they were trying to go with it, but at the same time, it didn't really accomplish that.

She was ALREADY fucking up Bellwood, and nobody could stop her. She SOLO'd the entire Plumber base when one of her favored sons went missing. She's one of the only villains that Ben has never been able to defeat in battle.

Her reputation was never something that needed to be proved. Having Vilgax show up wasn't needed, and only shat on his image in further

original=ultimate>alien force=omniverse>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>shit>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>reboot

The Omnitrix DIDN'T veer off course, and instead wound up being delivered to the guy who was meant to have it in the first place.

How does Max do things differently than his grandson?

He solves all the problems by himself without ever involving his grandkids and we don’t have a series.

of course there would be a series. he's got to solve those problems while attempting to keep his grandkids from finding out. How's he supposed to just disappear without them noticing? what happens if the omnitrix doesn't time out before the kids wake up? It's not like he can greet them as a vulpimancer and not have them freak out

He’d probably say a sudden health problem came up and cancel their summer road trip, sending them back to their respective parents. He kept his life a secret from his family and let them think him an absentee father for the better part of his life. What makes you think he’d let his Grandchildren get involved with something this dangerous unless he had to?

They'd already left for the trip by the time the omnitrix showed up. He might prefer if they canceled the trip, but I feel like Ben and Gwen might call out his bullshit. Different generational attitues and values and all that jazz.

Ben would say that he didn't look sick. Gwen would want to get him into the hospital ASAP. Meanwhile Animo is riding a giant mutant chipmunk down mainstreet.

Maybe. To be honest, I’m kind of warming up to this idea. I would like to see Ben go full Weapons guy like he started in that one AU episode where everything gets rewound and Gwen gets the Omnitrix. Although the Show would probably have to use Max sparingly, as an experienced Not!X-COM agent with the Omnitrix would be just too damn overpowered, even for OS Vilgax.

You could have two minor plots - Max handling big threats with transformations trying to hide it from his grandkids, and Ben and Gwen dealing with minor level mooks and minions while trying to hide the mischief from their grandfather.

Max's major issues wouldn't be with the aliens. Those he would dispatch quickly. His problems would all stem from trying to maintain a relationship with his grandkids who are very vocal about never seeing him. They don't just accept things like their parents did.

Ben can go weapons guy like you said, and Gwen is still magic.

Towards the middle/mid end, it's revealed that all the troubles have been interrelated. The kids team up with their grandfather after he sees that they've been handling themselves just fine. Maybe some mr.incredible-esqe "I have to do this because I'm not strong enough to lose you" stuff.

Omnitrix Max Vs OS Vilgax would be bad ass. I honestly don't think the fight would be as onesided in favor of Max as you think, especially since Max had been retired for quite a while, and Vilgax's species apparently lives for hundreds of years, and thus was in the late prime of life.

OS ruined him when they introduced Myaxx. They shouldn't have used him at all. Problem with villains like VIlgax is that they become a joke once MC beats them a more than twice.

I'm curious how Myaxx being introduced ruined him. She was the same species, but other than that, she was just a way to introduce Azmuth into the series. We didn't really see her much after that, except for maybe a small handful of cameos.

I was mostly kidding, but her introduction kinda spoiled his mystique if that makes sense. Oh there is a whole planet of people like him? Okay. Plus it caused a spike fem-Vilgax fetishism I think.

In general, if you have a creature, it has to have come from a planet with other creatures like it. The only exception would be critters created in a lab, like the Vreedles.

Personal opinion here - I don't feel like it ruined his mystique. If anything it makes him more frightening. There's a whole planet of beings like him, but HE'S the biggest, baddest, and meanest mofo they could come up with.

>fem-Vilgax fetishism

Wut? I guess I must have missed that bit, because I don't think I've EVER seen any rule 63 Vilgax. Shit, I think I've only seen like three fan pics of Myaxx total.

> watch the series recently, having missed it when it first aired
>get to the “what if” episode where ben goes back to school with the Omnitrix
>it ends
>go to the next one
>there is no next one

I felt fucking cheated. Like, I’m sure that secrets of the omnitrix was supposed to serve as the finale, but it didn’t feel like a finale, and neither did the “what if” episode. I felt like there should have been else

Yeah that finale always did bum me out. I thought the Negative 10 ep was the last aired one though? Could be wrong. Secret of the Omnitrix did wrap things up well enough imo. If you want more og Ben 10 try the Destroy all Aliens cg movie. It's pretty average but it picks up where secret of the Omnitrix left off.

It very well might have been, but the order that the site I watched it on had the “what if” episode last.

I actually did wind up watching destroy all aliens. It was meh tier at best, though I’m sure if they’d animated it normally instead of that atrocious cgi my opinion would have been higher.

I'm softer on it bc of the nostalgia factor. At the very least I was glad they kept the designs and voice actors from the original series, even if it was in 3D. Didn't like the redesigns for young ben and gwen in UA and omniverse. This came closest to emulating the first show.

Really? I didn’t recall the UAF designs being all that different. There were some slight changes, but I chalked it up to being a difference in art style. The OV designs are pretty different, and I know that art puts a lot of people off the series

11 year old gwen got hit puberty in OV.

It depends on exactly WHEN the omnitrix shows up. If its towards the beginning of the trip, and they're still close to home, then is right, and he sends home the kids rather than take any chances.

If they're all the way across the country, then is probably more accurate. Max does it secretly, in secret. He doesn't want to introduce them to any of his old plumber buddies or risk that they find out about the sort of things he used to do.

Probably they wind up tracking down Azmuth way sooner than Secret of the Omnitrix. And by they, I mean Max tracks down the creator ASAP in an attempt to get rid of the stupid watch that wont let him enjoy his retirement like he wanted.

Eh, its been known to happen. Sometimes kids hit it early. In my family, both my cousin and my grandmother went through it around 8 or 9

Ben needed more aliens with personalities

...

I have to say, I'm wasn't really happy with how they handled Hex and Charmcaster. Alot of their changes happened off screen, and we didn't get to see how or why they changed the way they did.

All of a sudden Hex is handsome now? WTF?

That sounds like fun, it would probably require some tweaking from the original show. For one some enemies would have to be upped in competence to be able to keep up with someone like Max having the Omnitrix, especially ones like Kevin and The Forever Knights, who only became a threat due to Ben’s mistakes.

And speaking of Ben, Ben himself would have to be a little bit less brash, impulsive and egotistical, or at least more receptive to Gwen’s advice and words of caution in a crisis, as he’ll no longer have the Idiot-proofed power of the Omnitrix to rely on. They’ll also both have to receive their “powers” land learn how to use them earlier as well, Gwen her Magic and Ben his Weaponry or whatever it goes with, if they want to be kept somewhat relevant to the audience without a bunch of asspulls. Although let’s be real, the former should have happened sooner anyways. Ben and Gwen would probably also have to learn to work as a team just a tad bit better.

>Towards the middle/mid end, it's revealed that all the troubles have been interrelated.
Now when you say that, do you mean middle of the Series or middle of the first or second season? Because if it is the Former, I can gauruntee you that people will get tired of watching them fumble for excuses and widen the distrust amongst each other for that long.

>Alot of their changes happened off screen
That's what I liked! Characters need not cease all development when they leave the show for a few seasons.

> we didn't get to see how or why they changed the way they did
Not totally true, we do see that Charmcaster conned Ben and Gwen into helping to overthrow Adwaita, the ruler of Ledgerdomain, which is basically the realm of magic. It is established that Adwaita had previously had her father - Hex's brother - killed during his rise to power. In every appearane she makes after she takes Ledgerdomain over, she is less and less coherent. The implication, I believe, is that the power has taken its toll on her.

Hex, meanwhile, went the opposite direction. He gives up on villainy entirely after the OS, having given up on reclaiming Ledgerdomain. He has a nice, cozy mansion, with a giant library. If Charmcaster comes over, he will give her advice, but he will not aid her schemes. He takes up a teaching position in OV liely due to boredom, and a desire to spread his knowledge. Gwen seemed fond of him as a professor.

As for the handsomeness, Hex is a master magician. Maybe he can mold his face, maybe it's a glamour.

Kevin could go one of two ways. He could either stay a kid, and be Ben's nemesis the way that Charmcaster was set up to be Gwen's nemesis, OR he could be aged up into a sort of proto-Aggregor. The Forever Knights scale up pretty easily - its not hard to turn a bunch of guys in plate armor living in foreboding castles into a legitimate threat.

I can see him maybe /starting/ the same as he always was, a big brash butt head who never listens to people who know better, barely coming out of scuffles by the skin of his teeth. But then he gets his ass handed to him one too many times, and finally sobers up when his actions either seriously injure somebody, or cause massive property damage that almost kills somebody. Then after that, he becomes more competent and respectful because deep down all he really ever wanted to be was a hero.

I guess it depends on how long the series lasts. If it's only a one or two season series, I would say the end or middle of series proper respectively, but if it's like a 52 episode deal, I wouldn't put it past the middle of the series.

...

OV=OS>>UA=AF
wasn't a fan of the art style in UA/AF, and the more seriousness. Omniverse was my favorite but Original series is too close to say it's better. one thing I liked about OV was lack of gwen, I didn't ever have trouble with her, but rook just seemed like a better partner for ben because they wouldn't argue just because, it was usually about something. I see why the new art style turned a lot of people away, but I liked what it did for a lot of the aliens.

Yeah, I wasn't really sold on Rook when they first introduced him, but as time went on and he became more and more done with Ben's bullshit, he did eventually grow on me.

Original Ben 10 was, and is the best version. All of the other are trash with:

Worse stories

Shit animation

Bad voice actors

Lame alien designs

And finally, are made to sell toys. The original Ben 10 couldn't sell toys as much as the failed abortion of a show that is Alien force and any of the other ones after. Debate me on why you think the others are worth watching.

I'll be frank with you my dude. Ben 10 isnt any more toyetic than any other action show out there. There are other shows that have huge chunks dedicated to them in the toy aisles of local stores around here, and the Ben merch is usually one of the smaller chunks, maybe half the size of the other ones.

The quality of the stories varies with the arc, and I suppose with the writers in charge. The AF Highbreed arc was pretty good, though it suffered from too much filler. UA was pretty Meh tier, though I enjoyed Diagon/Old George Arc, and the boost in Ben's competencies that went with it. I feel like that arc was essentially Peak Ben, and his change in Omniverse really disappointed me.

Speaking of Omniverse, it's a fun little continuity that probably would have been better served by coming directly after the OS. I feel like we got mood whiplash, due to the serious nature of UAF, the wackiness of OV felt kind of out of place for a while. If you watch nothing else, give the No-Watch Ben arc a chance. that one was probably the best, though Frogs of War was pretty good too, as was the Malware arc.

Some alien designs were kinda WTF (lookin' at you Bloxx), but others, like Rath and Big Chill were top tier. Bonus points goes to Gravattack, who was one of the more original aliens introduced in both appearance and powerset.

>I can see him maybe /starting/ the same as he always was, a big brash butt head who never listens to people who know better, barely coming out of scuffles by the skin of his teeth. But then he gets his ass handed to him one too many times, and finally sobers up when his actions either seriously injure somebody, or cause massive property damage that almost kills somebody. Then after that, he becomes more competent and respectful because deep down all he really ever wanted to be was a hero.
Yeah that’s kind of what the OS was Going for. But a lot of the mistakes Ben Made are the kinds you don’t get second chances to learn from, and he was only really pulled out of the Fire by the Omnitrix. I’m saying he’d probably have to be a little more attentative to Gwen’s advice and caution or just be more cautious himself to avoid getting iced.

>Speaking of Omniverse, it's a fun little continuity that probably would have been better served by coming directly after the OS
The OV episode where they go back to the designs of the original show ("From Hedorium to Eternity") is probably the best example of how the original show could have continued without needing a sequel or reboot.

The only thing with OS Ben is that he never really learned. He even lampshades it once or twice, saying he’ll forget the lesson he’s learned because that’s what always happens.

What I want to see is him ACTUALLY learning a lesson, and having it stick. For him to be truly scared straight, or at least scared straighter than he would be with a magic asspull strapped to his wrist.

Eh, I found it to be one of their weaker episodes

Omniverse kid gwen got noticeable tits and ben look even younger than original. These two feature i hate the most

Yeah I get what you mean. It would be nice to see some lasting character development for Ben. Plus it would be fun to see Ben be forced to Swallow his Pride and ask Gwen for Help, like teaching him Karate so he wouldn’t be so helpless in melee.

>Gwen teaching him karate

That would be a pretty good bonding thing for them. Together the two of them would hone their skills, then separate into two different fighting styles - Gwen integrating magic into hers, and Ben using technology. Maybe he gets Tetrax's hoverboard like in the OS, and is able to use it to do cool aerial fighting stunts.

Reminder that they replaced stinkfly with this imposter in the NuBen reboot

>Tfw when this could've been Big Chill

>Instead they chose to fuck up Stinkfly's design

>Replace Cool alien form with a generic Bipedal Humanoid that looks like a costume you would see on the Original Star Trek.
And people wonder why this show isn’t that popular

Yeah, I could have accepted this as Big Chill. It's different than either of his other two designs, but not so drastically different that he couldn't pass. All you'd need to do is have the wings be blue. That's it. Just change the wing color to be not orange, and he'd pass as Big Chill.

We'd bitch and moan about it, but it still wouldn't be as big a travesty as this.

>That would be a pretty good bonding thing for them.
It would be Adorable
>Ben And Gwen fighting together like some sort of Techo-Magical Martial Arts Wonder Duo
This AU is beginning sound even more appealing

>Ben and Gwen learning how to work together
>Ben and Gwen learning from different alien teachers how best to integrate technology and magic into their fighting style
>Ben and Gwen teaming up to fight bad guys with Magic and Technology
>Ben and Gwen saving Omntrix Max's butt from certain doom with their skills
>Ben and Gwen and Grandpa Max teaming up and taking down Vilgax

>MFW this will never happen

>No fan art of Myaxx

It's a fucking shame. She deserves better than that.

...

...

have they announced any numbers saying what the viewing numbers are, or how they compare to previous series?

Ok, so Gwen has her book of magic spells, and theres a ton of things you can do with that.

Ben gets a hoverboard, and what else? Does he go sharp shooter? Melee weapons? maybe the beginnings of a multifunctional tool like Rook has?

I’d imagine mostly gunslinger with maybe some sort of Alien blade or cutting tool as a backup melee weapon. I’d imagine that he’d pick up a few gadgets like from his travels or from Max’s Arsenal, but I don’t see him being focused on anything but combat capabilities.

>a ten year old kid with an absurdly sharp alien blade that can cut through concrete like a hot knife through butter

Ben's gonna accidentally lop off one of his fingers, isn't he?

I see him getting his tech not from Max's stash, (because Max would notice things are missing) but from abandoned alien sites, or being straight up gifted things by aliens thankful for his help/impressed by his abilities.

>Ben's gonna accidentally lop off one of his fingers, isn't he?
I wouldn’t rule it out.

>I see him getting his tech not from Max's stash, (because Max would notice things are missing) but from abandoned alien sites, or being straight up gifted things by aliens thankful for his help/impressed by his abilities.
Yeah good point. I imagine most of his arsenal would probably come from nicking the equipment of his enemies. It’s not like they need or deserve it anyways.

What's his Omnitrix loadout? Same as in show, or some different ones?

What's his favorite transformation? I'm thinking he's more of a Diamondhead kinda guy, as opposed to Ben's preference for Four Arms

Do you think he can figure out how to use the stuff he takes from his enemies, or does he need a mentor to show him how it works?

He’d Probably figure most of the out through trial and error, albeit with a few mishaps and misfires. Once he gets the basics down i’m Pretty sure he’d be somewhat in the clear.

There is some, it's just lewd.

>Lewd squid lady art

Not sure if want...

What’s not to be sure about? What are you gay?

Man... all those tentacles have to go somewhere, and I'm not entirely sure I want to find out the exact location

They wrap around your dick.

user, I have seen more than enough weird japanese porn to know that it NEVER stops just there

And this is bad how again?

I didn't say it was bad /per-say/.

Just that I wasn't sure if I wanted that or not.

...

But OS series Vilgax looked exactly like Myaxx before he became Banegax

Kek

We always knew Ben was a slut. Guess he only got worse as he got older.

And by worse, I mean better.

Pictures taken moments before disaster

...

dude seriously didn't realize his assistant ready to pop?

Would have been better than the actual endgame.

Literally anything would have been better than Kai

A fucking Rock would probably have been better than Kai. She was a worse love interest than fucking Mai.

Even Bwen?

Agreed. Mai may have been boring, but she at least cared enough for Zuko to betray her ax-crazy "friend" in order to keep him safe.

Ugh, much as I'm loathe to admit it, yes. I'm not a wincest fan, and Bwen never appealed to me, but older Ben and Gwen always seemed to have mellowed out a bit.

Kai has never shown any interest in Ben beyond his ability to transform into different aliens.