Which is more racist: exaggerated PoC caricatures or removing the PoC character from the film entirely?

Which is more racist: exaggerated PoC caricatures or removing the PoC character from the film entirely?

Other urls found in this thread:

youtube.com/watch?v=k_oEOdIBOpU
npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/02/22/467665890/hollywood-has-a-major-diversity-problem-usc-study-finds
nypost.com/2016/11/30/why-moana-is-drawing-criticism-in-the-south-pacific/
youtube.com/watch?v=fTJOWGEXd60
youtube.com/watch?v=UacUR7bPnMM&ab_channel=AnimationStation
youtube.com/watch?v=knIroVvPZU4
youtube.com/watch?v=7Nx4ekJ0i_w
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

The first one. Being ignored is better than being insulted.

Being ignored is an insult.

A story doesn't need PoC in the right context, but if you added as a caricature then it is just being racist.

Has anyone made porn of that character yet?

Clearly exaggerated caricatures. It's better to leave someone out than say or do something fucked up just because. You insult a group of people and politicize what's meant to be entertainment media for no reason other than to stroke your own dick. Keep it to the political cartoons like south park or boondocks, don't inject it into family stuff.

Why did they always have bows in their hair?

Only if it's deliberate and demonstrative. Someone not adressing you happens every day when you walk through the street, it's only an insult when you're in a situation where you'd be expected to be acknowledged.
Nobody is expected to have some sort of racial inclusion in their film, so leaving it out is not a message or statement.

Exaggerated racist caricature, obviously, but ignoring it doesn't solve anything

Because that's the stereotype

youtube.com/watch?v=k_oEOdIBOpU

i guess because its more PC than bones

PoC can make they own stories too!

...

Is this meant to be for children?

This. This is the best response.

Undoubtedly.

yes, Whoopi's message was intended for adult not to spruge out with their inner retard about the racist images.

I can understand the reason why Disney removed those parts. That scene is supposed to be subtle and enthralling, giving the audience the feel of calm like in the symphony itself. But nowadays those scenes immediatly take you out of the atmosphere and makes the whole scene unintentionally more hilarious than it should be.

Better question.
If a character started off as possibly a racist stereotype but over the decades that character remained popular while the stereotype faded into obscurity and now all those traits are a mainstay of the character but most don't recognize their racist origins. Is that character still racist?

because that was the best way to tie off a braid before elastic got cheap.

it's never been totally clear to me- is Mammy two-shoes working in the house or is it her house?

Obviously the former.

HELLO MY BABY

I love this disclaimer

>implying mexicans like Speedy because he's mexican
you fucking bigot

Neither is racist. Mistreating people in real life on the basis of their race is.

Neither. Shutting PoC out of an industry is racism. But I wouldn't bother removing characters after the fact, because what constitutes a negative caricature changes with the stereotypes are the zeitgeist of the time.

People are reflexively offended by the "mammy" caricature now, but they forget or don't know that those were homages to Hattie McDaniel and her award winning performance in Gone with the Wind. She was the first black person to win an Oscar. She was a trailblazer. Do we scrub her from movies and history?

I'm confused as how Michigan J. Frog is considered racist. I read that frogs were used as a blackface stand-in in funny animal cartoons, but I can't find any proof.

Homeowner makes the most sense, as she's frequently shown there at night and is often dressed in ways that wouldn't make sense for a housekeeper.

I feel the need to stand up and clap.

The only sane statement to be said.

Michigan J Frog is a high stepping vaudeville act singing a coon song. It could just be coincidence and they bought up an old song on the cheap and just had him do a popular dance but it's highly probable it isn't.
But that's my point, you have to be aware of all that context to see the possibility that it's supposed to be a racist joke, and we're at the point where if you see high stepping or singing Hello Ma Baby, you think of Michigan first.
As for frogs being black stand ins I guess it's because a lot of the time Frogs have rubber tire lips and bulge eyes which are shared with racist black cartoons. But ultimately I think that's coincidental. Especially since MJF doesn't have either of those attributes.

>and her award winning performance in Gone with the Wind

An award she wasn't even allowed to publically collect.

npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2016/02/22/467665890/hollywood-has-a-major-diversity-problem-usc-study-finds
>we want representation and not be ignored

nypost.com/2016/11/30/why-moana-is-drawing-criticism-in-the-south-pacific/
>we don't want to be represented and exploited by big business

CANT WIN

>but they forget or don't know that those were homages to Hattie McDaniel

The "mammie" archetype can be traced back to writings in 1852. "Gone With The Wind" came out in 1939. Stop.

>Cherry picking two differing opinions

YOU JUST CAN'T PLEASE 'EM CAN YOU!?!?!?

Dumb question. OP is a faggot.
>Hey, what's more racist? This offensive caricature, or removing this offensive caricature?

What is social justice if not opinions?

Guys that's not what she meant when she said she was a free black woman.

Still? No. Like changing 'nigger' to 'nigga', it's become more of a strength

Seconded. A story exclusively featuring two white guys isn't inherently offensive just because the leads are a certain color.

But something featuring two white guys and a painfully stereotypical racist sidekick is completely different.

>What is social justice if not opinions?

Not my point. Trying to illustrate some kind of contradiction between the article is just shitty strawmanning.

Would anyone be offend if someone made fan art of Sun flower that IS NOT a racial stereotype?

This. I’m normally put off by censorship, but I can appreciate that I can just sit and enjoy the centaurette scene without being unable to separate it from the notion of everyone flipping their shit over it like the black crows scene in Dumbo or the Injun scene in Peter Pan.

I’m sure it helps that my association with Fantasia was built long after the censorship was already in place, though, and doesn’t fuck with any kind of nostalgia that would probably sway my opinion.

Oc

youtube.com/watch?v=fTJOWGEXd60

To a proper mammy, those things are considered one and the same anyway. The paperwork might say somebody else owns it, but it’s her house.

.>PoC

>PoC

The attitude of the character in those cartoons came from Hattie's portrayal, not from the old stereotypes. Before her, the mammy stereotype was very submissive. Hattie sassed everyone.

Which supports what I was saying earlier. What constitutes stereotypes are not set in stone.

Then she wouldn’t be Sunflower anymore. I’m sure her fans would be offended.

Picker of Cotton

He's a direct reference to black ragtime singer and vaudevillian Bert Williams and the second ragtime song he sings was written by a black composer for an all-black stage play called Shuffle Along.

Well a nice disclaimer but i bet some people will be still offendet for the sake of being offended

I feel like I’ve read literature from before the 1930s featuring sassy black mammies.

Isn’t that the case with literally everything, though?

Does that make it better or worse?

Let's go even further down the rabbit hole; cartoons depicting racist caricatures of black people while simultaneously depicting black people without any (or at least LESS) offensive characteristics.

This cartoon is confusing. Why does the black woman from NYC look so much less ridiculous? What were they trying to say here?

youtube.com/watch?v=UacUR7bPnMM&ab_channel=AnimationStation

Country niggers are like Country Crackers. Trash.

*ignorant

50 years from now we will treat rap music as racist exaggeration.

>why does the black woman from NYC look so much less ridiculous?

The girl in Scrub Me Mama with a Boogie Beat's supposed to bear a resemblance to Lena Horne.
Mammies were de-sexed on purpose to make white people more comfortable with them as characters and mascots.

Rap music's actually made by black people, surely you see the distinction.

The cultured black woman is a much lighter shade of black than all the uncultured black people, equating lightness of skin tone with intelligence and grace.

>supposed to bear a resemblance to Lena Horne.

Damn she was a qt

>Damn she was a qt
Indeed she was, it's too bad she was redder than a coxcomb.

...

They were glorifying black people who had properly adopted the fashions and cultural habits of big American cities while ridiculing southern black fashion and sub culture. Likely a spook trying to coerce black folk to move into the city in order to provide cheaper labor thinking they were going to be living high and dry going to broadway shows and what not.

youtube.com/watch?v=knIroVvPZU4

Isn't Tyler Perry especially guilty of doing this same trope?

I'd never thought I'd see the day when I would want to see more sexy Sunflower fanart...

This is how actual African culture works, though. Not that African American bullshit, but how they run things in The Motha Land.

The darker you are, the worse you're treated.

African Americans do that too, it's just that when a bunch of dark-skinned guys are jealous of light-skinned males they beat the holy hell out of them.

I haven't heard of this bit, could've just ben mundane nig on nig violence.
But they do do that. Look up the paper bag test. Plenty of black women still have complexes about lighter skinned black women being perceived as more beautiful/desirable.

...

I noticed that most people make her a horse and not a donkey like she is in the movie.

Yeah. What?

...

Does any other modern cartoon have any undertone racism like this

>cherry picking
As opposed to all of the times SJWs were pleased with Hollywood?

The other user is saying that she was a communist.

Why does she have no nipples?


Why do the other centaurs need tops if they have no nipples?
Why make the other one topless at all?

ghhhhh

Wait what are you telling me there were scenes cut in later fantasia releases? How the fuck do they even make that work with the songs.

Fitting the songs in with less footage that is.

It's almost like spending time inside (a luxury of the well-to-do), and not toiling in the sun, makes you more pale or something.

>because to do otherwise would be the same as claiming these prejudices never existed

Thats racist.

>I love to singa-a is one of my favorites
Hindsight will not taint that.

Oh shit you're right.

What's even that racist about this?

Why not just digitally touch up her lips and stuff?
Maybe give her a fucking top, too.

Would me easier than removing her entirely.

it was established that it was her house.

Maybe they wear shirts just because they happen to like fashion, ever think of that? You'd might as well ask why they do their hair or plait flowers into their tails or put rouge on their lips. They like looking pretty.

It's not like people wear shirts just to hide nipples anyway otherwise you wouldn't see topless men.

It's racist because she's cartoonishly hideous while the white centaurs are all beautiful and majestic creatures of legend. Now the crows from Dumbo, THOSE I don't see how the fuck they are racist. They're like the most reasonable and "cool" characters in the entire movie.

fuck off. we're hard working, conservative and cook delicious unhealthy meals. this cartoony stereotype of southerners has to die.

>cartoon features a caricature of a black mammy, hustler or jazz-man
>RACISM
>OUTRAGE
>a literal trigger warning

>cartoon features a caricature of a white hillbilly, socialite or bum
>suddenly everyone is no longer retarded and recognizes that this is just a caricature

But she's not, though. She looks like a kid. She looks dumpy like a kid. Where's the racism here?
The other centaurs look like teens/adults

>It's not like people wear shirts just to hide nipples anyway
Girls do. How dumb are you?
And I tend to think people forget that females don't have naturally ruby red lips.

Here:
youtube.com/watch?v=7Nx4ekJ0i_w

I think they only needed to cut the one character out, so they just erased her and at some points zoomed in a little on other characters.

It's not racist if it's a direct reference to one person.

Is this youtube or reddit?

>But she's not, though. She looks like a kid. She looks dumpy like a kid. Where's the racism here?

I mean, I guess you could make that argument if there were any white centaur children to compare her to. As is, the only reasonable conclusion you can make is that the artists intended the black centaur to be a funny looking retard because black people are funny and retarded looking.

Crows used to be a slur for blacks.
Doesn't matter if they were perfectly reasonable characters, people will get angry just for the comparison.

>Black stereotype
>Named JIM CROW
>"I just don't get how this is racist!"