Why comic artists take so long to draw their pages and mangakas breeze through it?

Why comic artists take so long to draw their pages and mangakas breeze through it?

Is tracing common? I'm seeing Murata drawing OP and it seems that he can do 10 pages per day.

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line-of-action.com/practice-tools/figure-drawing/
youtu.be/yrDmjXed6A0
medibang.com/contest/jumpuniversal/?locale=en
medibang.com/book/eo1710142347395250001492342/view/
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mangakas have assistants (comic book artists have inkers though)
superhero titles tend to be more realistic, which takes time
kirby used to pencil five pages a day so it is possible
fans are less forgiving nowadays though

Kirby was a monster

This.

Also I'm sure page rates, if they exist, are much lower for mangaka so they HAVE to do more pages to get the same amount of money.

Look at something like Dragon Ball, that actually had fairly simple art more comparable to newspaper comic strips than American comics. Toriyama has spoken about how he developed the style to make it easier to draw a chapter each week.

The guy who does My Hero Academia has like ten assistants.

Manga that are more artistic and have more detailed art aren't usually weekly.

Manga aren't colored, only greyscaled. Comics have to be colored and shaded, and I assume they have a longer printing process than newsprint manga.

The Berserk hiatus is almost over, right?

Japanese drawing techniques involve drawing fewer details

Manga are in black and white so you don't have to bother with coloring except for maybe a few pages and a cover

Mangaka have assistants and some mangaka don't even draw their book anymore if they're a big time artist. The creators of One Piece and Naruto had stopped drawing their own series years ago and the work went entirely to the assistants.

While it isn't particularly harder to make a page of comic than one of manga,
Comics tend to have about the same amount of people working on it, but have more steps to completion and have a lot more intermediaries and externals messing with it.
If you could just have the comic be directly from the artists to your pages like in the early days, surely the process would be a lot faster.

Many mangakas like Oda from One Piece and Horii from My Hero Academia, even whit his assistatns, finds themself almost dying monthly due to exastion.

Also, in America comic book artist is a meme profecion, in japan it's a hellish profecion that demans you are willing to killyourself working.

>fans are less forgiving nowadays though

i remember people complaining about a hiatus due to a japanese holiday, lots of opinions about entitlement was said.

>Why comic artists take so long to draw their pages and mangakas breeze through it?
Most manga are pencil and ink only.
Most mangaka tell more decompressed stories, meaning less writing per chapter and way more splashes and less time consuming panels.
Most mangaka have at least one assistant to do elements for them.
Penmanship is far more important in Japan and important skills are taught at a much earlier age.
Mangaka work far more absurd hours because their industry is bigger, several times more fierce, and has higher potential returns.
Tracing, reusing art, and other cheats are exceedingly common.
Failing to meet deadlines is viewed more critically in Japan.
Japanese artists tend to draw in more stylized fashion and render details far less frequently.

And, most of all: it's a myth.

The average artist is chewed up and spit out within two years. The weekly manga cycle kills people, and those who survive tend to have their work completely fall apart between the weekly pressure and editorial fucker. The artists who don't fall for the sweatshop rude tend to make short stories or 70-80 page monthlies, which typically match up with the output of full time Western pencillers (people forget they often do two to three books a month or cover costs with cons and commissions). The actual weekly manga are freaks and hacks. The majority of the content is built on a tower of corpses.

oh boy

It depends on the manga. In Manga Time Kirara magazines, each manga has 8 pages per month, almost all of them black and white only. Even then, some authors can't keep up with even such a lax schedule. Weekly magazines are an exception, and shonen mangaka usually hire assistants to manage the workload.

Comic artist have the same ammount of assistants per comic like mangakas. But the difference is that in western comics (Mostly Dank Whore, Mahvel and DiCk) go and hire freelance artist for coloring pages. Rendering an image takes more time than the whole sketch and inking in general.
Murata takes like 4 hours by page (Sketching and inking) and has post production process with digital AC.

Also: mangaka are most often ALSO the writers. So they have to think a plot, talk about it AND draw it. 20 pages every 7 day.

>The creators of One Piece and Naruto had stopped drawing their own series years ago and the work went entirely to the assistants.
Wrong: Oda is still penning One Piece.
Kishimoto CONCLUDED Naruto, the current series is a sequel where he is involved but not the main artist or writer

I find Manga art to be more appealing, it's idea of realism isn't to slap a bunch of ugly lines all over a character's face.

>longer printing process than newsprint manga.
I'm pretty sure at this point shit's basically the same. Though printing technology can't have made any significant advancements with the state of the industry (print media in general) so I could be wrong. It's likely the color and "shipping" between hands. mangaka likely have their assistants right there, many artists if they aren't going to cons or have meetings to attend may not be right there with each other so theirs shipping time either digitally or physically.

Manga is better than comics, I'm not a weeb or anything and I consider both to be pretty much the same but most comics are either capeshit or super political or mega pretentious while I can find manga that's made just to tell a good story pretty easy
No wonder manga outsells comics anywhere but in comic shops, best part is whenever comic writers try to copy manga they always fail miserably

Some mangaka like Oda works for 20 hours a day. This is crazy shit. Thats why they are all dying or getting fucked for life.

Comic artists work for 8 hours a day. Jim lee told it in one of his livestreams

Tell me you're the same person who made this comment in the Batman storytime this past week. because that's the first time I'd heard that bullshit complaint about lines on peoples faces.

>Comic artists work for 8 hours a day. Jim lee told it in one of his livestreams
This is likely true for big 2 artists. The rest maybe put in more maybe put in less. Its the consistency that separates artists mostly. If you can't do 8 hours a day you can't do big 2 work (unless you're really fucking worth it). There are still many artists who do the "I just wasn't feeling it" schtick to defend not putting in a full work day.

Not them, but artists like Jim Lee absolutely slap extraneousines on characters as a shorthand for rendering and it's usually shit.

>shonen jump is currently running am entry contest where anyone from anywhere across the world can enter
>think to myself that surely I couldn't compete with passionate native mangaka
>look up the entries
>it's almost all pretty bad weeaboo stuff

>might actually have a chance if I make an appealing Westaboo feeling comic

Can you post some of your work?

examples?

I feel like you're simply referring to cross-hatching. Which is very prominent in almost all cultures with a history of draftsmanship.

...

I was actually lol. Seriously though that art was ugly.

On a more serious note

Arniesartblog.tumblr.com
Arniesarchive.tumblr.com

I'm applying to 2000 ad as well

I think it's been stated that Oda draws all the characters while he leaves details like backgrounds to assistants.

You need to practice anatomy

Dude, are you having a stroke?

Can you work for 20 hours per day for over 20 years without break?
And do this while writing your story and putting up to the pressure of an editor that makes the Devil look like a pretty decent guy?
If so, good luck!

Again, I'm not
I'm just saying Jim and his wannabes add lines in lieu of actual rendering frequently, like Superman's little lightning bolt here. It's very common across much of his work, and the very first trinity image you get when googling Jim Lee is even worse. The man just loves adding extra lines. Always has.

>Manga are in black and white so you don't have to bother with coloring except for maybe a few pages and a cover
also you see waaaaaaaay less use of backgrounds and too many close ups of their faces, making the process extra easy.

that's actually common

Jim Lee is a very overrated artist

...

This, it ultimately boils down to cultural differences.

Japan's developed to the point where you have to get your shit out every week in order to stay relevant. It's an entirely different medium. Manga and comics aren't really the same at all.

why do comic artist trace over 3d models?

Probably, though that was a rough sketch shitpost pic of a character with weird anatomy to begin with.

Lemme draw something a little more like what they'd probably want and if you're inclined, gimme some crits.

I agree, although he isn't terrible. Just trying to explain the face scribbles user was referring to.

the only Jim Lee thing I like is his X-Tinction Agenda cover with Havok shooting upwards.

so much wrong in one post, specially the first 3 lines

alright then. I checked out the entries myself and you were right, none of them really stand out

Laziness
It makes sense if you want to draw a battle in the background because you don't need a lot of detail and it doesn't make sense to draw like 50 guys for a single page, it's not ideal but nobody expects perfection
If you have to trace anything else you are a hack

I don't see that as being an "american comics vs manga" thing though. Some mangaka draw noses as lines or add constant circles for blushing. This is something many artists do. No saying it's good but I don't think there's anything "american" about it.

It's not really so much an extra line as it should be better placed and drawn. Moebius, who's constantly felated, used lines on characters faces to express an emotion or mindstate.

That line is clearly there to express that Clark's jaw is clenched because he's unhappy.

I do see what you're pointing to though. I just don't think it's as industry specific.

>why do comic artist trace over 3d models?

Manga Artists do it all the time, Manga Studio even has a feature that gives you 3D models that you can pose.

Mangakas that are on a weekly schedule usually sleep about 4 hours a night and have 2-5 assistants helping them draw.

animenewsnetwork.cc/interest/2017-10-25/detective-conan-manga-creator-works-20-hours-per-day-5-days-per-week/.123143

The difference is overwork and less detailed art styles.

What do you mean by penmanship? Like neat handwriting or what?

Manga does this too. Slamdunk was drawn almost exclusively from tracing NBA photos. At least he did a little compositing.

Think he means calligraphy, yeah.

Just remember that the Japanese have to learn three separate alphabets, one of which is incredibly complicated and for whom letters can have literally entirely different meanings should you mess up a single stroke.

So here it is. Not trying to make anything too naturalistic, but I figure it's decent enough. Anything noticeable I'm fucking up on?

In any case I'm thinking it'd stand out more if I send them something way more cartoony with a modicum of Japanese sensibilities.

Yeah, it's fucked dude. Arms are short and uneven. Torso doesn't fit the body. Thick brush covers up mistakes but doesn't fix them. Body isn't cohesive. Face relies heavily on symbols but isn't appealing.

Hm, true. So any advice besides hitting back up on loomis?

....are those the robots from"The Mechanical Monsters" Fleischer cartoon? If so, then I am well pleased. If not, they should be.

AWAKEN MY MASTERS

I think you're pretty good

if you want to get good at anatomy, you have to actually study real anatomy. that means figure studies, loomis, and hampton. i get you want to draw cartoons, but you need to learn the real life foundations of anatomy to draw appealing stylized anatomy

I really like your work, no homo tho

You have to do both really. Focusing too hard only on studying will make you too tightly wound to relax and draw from imagination.

use real life references? other than that, i'd send something in the style of the second image, it looks more appealing.

Are you feeling ok, man?

Now, if you could only pare down your style completely so that it conforms to a manga's while retaining some individual style, you're good.

I find the most popular styles of both to be abhorrent. The house comic style is fairly realistic but is fairly forgettable for the most part. The most popular manga aesthetics for faces just sicken me to my core for some reason, I simply can't stand how a lot of them draw faces. I prefer more stylized and unique art styles in either medium.

How is piecing together all those images easier than just drawing it yourself?

Is shonen jump so fucking desperate about one piece slowly dying that they are looking up for overseas talent?

No he doesn't (no more than anyone else), those characters are actually on model

It's one google search, then start tracing the first result. It cuts out sketching as a process and makes things stay realistic.

At the cost of ever looking good.

Obviously studying anatomy is always going to help, but I'd also recommend physically practicing as much as you can. Sites like line-of-action.com/practice-tools/figure-drawing/ can help by giving you subjects and time sessions to practice with. Just doing a half an hour lesson a day would dramatically help understand figures.

Your anatomy is way too off. The torso and arms especially on the left figure. They're just way too small/squat in comparison to the rest of the body. The right figure is also a bit wonky in the anatomy department (the legs/feet in particular) but it's less noticeable because of the dynamic pose. I also like the shading on it, gives the guy a really cool effect.

I've seen your work before and I like your art. Your ScotsWives comic in particular was pretty cool. I think your attempts at simpler forms are a lot better than your attempts at more realistic anatomy, your Powerpuff Girls designs showcase this.

Literally what lightning bolt? The page looks fine.

>elf island arc ends
>Guts and co get back on the ship
>Miura dies 4 years into the voyage of a stroke while masturbating to Idolmaster

He's talking about the line from the cheekbone to the jaw. I wouldn't say it's pointless, since it's supposed to indicate a change in the angle of the plane of the cheek.

Okay, so based on some of the criticism of this thread and amongst some friends, basically I'm seeing it's more about proportions than anatomy (at least I don't think I fucked up any of the muscle locations)

Here's a looser sketch sans cleanup, used a fat man model to try and force a larger torso. Forgive the shaky lines, my tablet was a little wonky for some reason.

Any further thoughts/critiques?

Also, not to excuse it, but I think the reason I drew weird sticky torsos was cause I was previously working on a project with designs like pic related. Bad habits from a different aesthetic, I guess.

It all depends on the execution

I'm digging it. From the right character on your first image I assumed you at least had some decent understanding of muscle and anatomy and the proportions did seem to be the big offender. Of course there's nothing wrong with distorting proportions for the sake of style, but maybe it's just a matter of experimenting with it a bit more until you find an aesthetic sweet spot. Either way, continuing to study and practice anatomy is never a bad thing.

Thanks for the resource, lad.

Personally I'm a big fan of stuff like this
youtu.be/yrDmjXed6A0
Strange distorted anatomy, but consistent in structure. Lots of Russian animation has this sensation ands well, and stuff like mystery of the third planet shows you can have very graphic flat designs and translate them well into a consistent 3d space without losing that illustrative icon sensibility.

medibang.com/contest/jumpuniversal/?locale=en

>those entries

Well, atleast some of them don't appear too bad.

medibang.com/book/eo1710142347395250001492342/view/

This one is the only one that didn't give me deviantart flashbacks, but it's pretty edgy.

medibang.com/book/0d1602041328117860000450428/view/

medibang.com/book/cs1707051927008800002662867/view/


These two look pretty good to me. They look like the artist knows what they're doing. I can't speak for writing though as I havent read through either.

Aleast Shonen Jump won't have to look through much shit to see whats worth looking at.

>mangakas breeze through it
Depends on what what release schedule they have. Weekly manga is mostly work, no social life, and only 3-5 hours of sleep.

animenewsnetwork.com/interest/2017-10-25/detective-conan-manga-creator-works-20-hours-per-day-5-days-per-week/.123143

>decide to do some kind of manga styled webcomic
>shit takes forever
>from backgrounds to character
>realize that people who do this this for a living,work nonstop, even with assistants
>im not even on their level of skill,and it's proving difficult

I have new respect for mangaka yet at the same time i have huge concerns for them.

Have you not heard of the numerous health problems mangaks suffer though?

1. Mangaka have assistants
2. Mangaka work sweatshop schedules, and series will often go on hiatus due to the mangaka having a breakdown (or, if the series is popular enough, outsourcing the art to assistants entirely, a la later Naruto)
3. Superhero comics are (generally) more detailed and realistic nowadays. The best manga pages are as good or better than the best western pages, but the average western page has a lot more than the average manga page. My Hero Academia has some great art, but a lot of pages are pic related, where there's no background except for a speed-line effect one of the seven credited assistants added in photoshop and nothing is shaded except the shoe in the second panel.
4. Big Two Comics often have their artists shuffled around, leading to all sorts of hiccups.

The art in later chapters of Naruto looks a lot more like the spinoff than the art in early chapters of Naruto. Kishimoto was having hand problems, and it's pretty clear that he was drawing less and less as the series went on.

Just ask Kubo if the rumors of having a breakdown during making Zombie Powder are true.

At least manga doesn't have the god awful habit of copy pasting multiple panels. One after another with just dialogue bubbles changing.

Don't put anything past Tite Kubo.

Hell, even Berserk does it, though often he'll only copy part of a panel so it's less obvious

herpa derpa

Because Mangakas are actual professionals that follow schedules and do their jobs.

Comic artists are overly emotional assholes that demand ever constant affection from the public or else they regress into bitching and screaming children and never get their work done at all.

immeba knoe wat yer sayings wih mabels in or mouf

Not that user but I kind of agree that colored images do not need all the hatching lines everywhere. It's great for pencil or black and white as a shorthand for shading etc. But in a fully completed colored image it seems a little weird

>kirby used to pencil five pages a day so it is possible

The detail fetishization in Western comics sucks.

Holy shit, Oda not drawing One Piece anymore is the best joke I've heard all week!