Martian Politics

Humans will be on Mars within most of our lifetimes. Will the people of Mars be politically tied to an Earth-based government or will Mars have its own independent government? Give me your best and worst case scenarios for Earth-Mars relationships.

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ebooktrove.com/Asimov, Isaac/Asimov, Isaac - The Martian Way.pdf
pnas.org/content/112/31/9511.full.pdf
youtu.be/RNf8MDS-BFo?t=45m1s
twitter.com/NSFWRedditVideo

obviously an independent planet not long after the revolution

Depends... are we bringing niggers?

> no breathable atmosphere
> low gravity leads to ostheoporosis
> no fuel material (fossil or nuclear)
> soils are shit, full with chlorites, meaning no low-cost farming
> no magnetosphere protecting from radiation

Literal escapist fantasy.
Earth is both Mankind's cradle and tombstone.

>terraforming
Kill yourself you nihilistic cunt

Im telling you..... SEVENETYSEVENESTYSEVENTYSIXXXX BABY

Better Red Than Dead

BOY I SURE DO HATE NIGGERS

I would be afraid of a strong personality turning the small community who lives there into hell. No one can come and save you for years.

of course :^)

When robots can do everything, elites will be able to live just about anywhere, assuming AI don't become self-aware.

> terraforming
We don't even terraforming Earth: we anthropomorfing it: divert, invert and subvert all natural systems to our temporary benefit the hierarchical society structure we exist in, destroying the ecosystem that made Humanity's existence possible in the first place.
Nihilism is little to nothing to do with facts stated above.

>no fuel material
We don't know that

That presupposes that robots will be able to do 'everything' (that is little vague) and the 'elite' will not go degenerate in complecency, ultimately destroying themselves. Ten millenia of human history somewhat shows otherwise.

> no fossil fuels - no industrial scale energy production (all nuclear production is subsidized and leans of a fossil logistical tailgate, introduction was a tech race and industrial arming move)
> mars has no hot rotating inner core (hence, the lack of magnetosphere) - the amount of fissionable radioactive material is quite questionable

Mar cannot compete with Earth economically, because of the added costs of keeping people alive (air, water etc). On Earth those things are cheaper.

Manufacturing will stay on Earth to cut costs.

Maybe a three-titted sex tourist trade can start on Mars.

No mudslimes allowed. it doesnt matter if they are a sjw mudslime or not. someone in their family will become radicalized, 2nd through 4th generation, and everything will be lost because of boom boom.

So you set up solar cells up top, then dig down below surface for your habitat area. This blocks out radiation and shelters you from dust storms etc.

Self sustaining hydroponic farm and voila! You're all set. However, you "think" this is impossible... people like you were the ones who said heavier than air flight was impossible and that only birds were meant to fly kek

>implying you could ever afford a ticket
you'll die on this rock, basking in your own irrelevance and tears

> solar cells: dependent on fossil fuels to manufacture, endurance in martian environment (high radiation, lower usable solar energy influx, dust)
> below surface habitat area - no natural radiation (sterilizing, vitamin D, normal diurnal cycle, etc. all have to be synthesized), low gravity still problem
> self sustaining hydroponic farm - workforce, technical infrastructure and equipment, irrigation-quality water, energy (Mars gets significantly less photosyntheticly active radiation; either shielded greenhouses or underground calibrated LED light sources, genetic resources)
> I didn't say it's impossible - just highly improbable in current economical terms (global recession), technological terms (innovation is on the downturn), societal terms (political crises) and ecological terms (climate change, resource depletion, current extinction event (1000-10000 times the baseline)

Half of your assertions are easily remedied when you consider that most of the colonies would be constructed underground.

We do not currently have the science to terraform Mars, but look how much science has grown over the last two centuries? Saying that we could do it over the next millenium is hardly a stretch.

Has iron.

If you can't create grammatically correct sentences, forgive me if I don't trust your science. Has it occurred to you that these are challenges they have thought of?

They are actually ahead of you; currently they are discussing how the low gravity might effect gestation amid concerns that a female reproductive system could be rendered sterile. There are theories that propose an orbiting space station that is shielded from radiation that would literally be a giant gestation wheel.

We will find solutions.

They have considered the baseline and pretty much everything else you have mentioned. The low gravity only effects gestation and we don't yet know to what extent.

How are you all going to feel when SJWism causes the first person to step foot on Mars to be either a black woman, or a muslim man?

Mars government will find some ancient alien technology and declare a fascist empire that will then use a diplomatic event such as the assassination of one their royalties visiting earth (inside job obviously) to justify war and will purge the Terran cucks and take the beautiful planet for themselves.

Underground colonies have their own set of problems - the creation and maintainance of an artificial biosphere for example, which, as far as I know, haven't been succesfully attempted even here on Earth
The rapid advancement of science is due to workload restructuring effect made possible by the introdution of fossil fuels and plenty of atmospherical oxigen, as a usable energy gradient to increase societal complexity. There is neither on Mars.
> has iron
In ingots or it has to be found, extracted, melted, carbonated and shaped in an anoxic environment?
Has it occured to you that we don't even have permanent base on the Moon?
Discussing possible effects < have actual results from research
> they have discussed everything
Are you moving in such exalted circles or just put your faith in something yourself don't understand, but venerable people said so, so it must be true?

We don't need a moon base; I realize a lot of the refueling ideas proposed by Musk are SCARY but his ideas are going to lay the foundation for what he even admits will be hundreds of years of scientific advancement.

Musk himself has said that the ideal population would be around a million, yet it will take hundreds of years to establish this.

The problem with simple minded individuals such as yourself as you do not think analytically and long-term about the solutions we will have to engineer in order to solve the problems we are currently facing.

Which is the whole point of scientific innovation.

Its like you're commenting in 1955 that we will never land on the moon because we don't yet have rockets that can take humans out of the Earth's atmosphere. The research in 1955 doesn't support it, thus we will never land on the moon. That is fucking retarded and you should be ashamed. We weren't there in the 50s, but we set a goal, and in the 60s we accomplished it.

I realize Mars colonization is a much higher bar, but you seem to be suggesting that we won't have the research and advancement to support this.

bump

It will be US/UK all over again.

wouldn't the low grav issue only be an issue for a generation or so?

Once they are self-sustained, they will be a separate government completely separated from Earth governments.

The Martian Congressional Republic will grow to rival Earth's UN within 2 centuries. From there we can work together (hopefully) to expand into the rest of the solar system.

Going to war in space would be a bad idea. We would just be flinging large chunks of metal at each other over thousands of miles of open space. Also, Martian marines have cool looking armor and style points count for a lot.

Fucking mongols....

The earth is flat faggots

They'll be weaker than us due to low grav

How will currency work on mars?

> muh Musk - ipse dixit at it's best
> the first step of preventive analytic problem solving is finding, understanding and stating the problems that will be most likely to be faced - which I just did
I just don't bank on solutions that doesn't even exist yet, while stating that the level of technology needed to accomplish such task is unlikely to be achieved, as the amount of physical and socio-technological resources are already in decline, plus, there are plenty of problems HERE and NOW that maybe would be to best deal with before embarking to such grand quests.
I don't now, but that means little. Should be tested before the great leap?

That won't happen. They're too attached to suicidal sciences to actually produce intelligible work for themselves. Their only hope is that they bitch to a higher-up in NASA or elsewhere to even remotely consider the notion.

THE EARTHLINGS ARE COMING

Mars Denars

>physical and socio-technological resources are already in decline

Yes, as they were in the 60s as well. Yet innovation on the Space Program has led to many of the same technological advancements we take for granted today and advancements that has improved life worldwide.

To your point directly, Musk hardly needs resources. I think he is doing okay.

And I know its meme-level to bring him up, but history looks for the innovators - The Edisons, Teslas, Einsteins

Not for the shit that say "b-but its too scary! we have issues at home!"

I would welcome a modern space race. Your opinions on the matter are archaic, and for this you should be ashamed.

At first Earth will have complete control over Mars. They would depend on us for their Internet, shipments of fresh colonists and resourses and so forth. Needless to say we would hold their families hostage. A martian start giving us shit, we cut the internet and cut his grandma's throat. Suddenly the fag's not so tough.

As they gain more and more autonomy they'll get more and more independence. Possibly one day they'll even try to recolonize us, seeing how we slowly turn into shapeless progressive blobs in the absense of any selective pressure. Martians on the other hand are going to suffer crazy natural selection and only the sanest, smartest and healthiest are gonna survive. You literally cannot afford to be a dumb nigger on Mars. Press the wrong button and boom, your room is depressurized and you're dead.

Martians are gonna be the true aryans.

Yeah, I don't know how you can say stuff like that. We kinda continue to exist, so we must not have a tendency to destroy ourselves.

I know elites are trying to destroy us with degeneracy but they ain't gonna destroy themselves. They'll fight but not go extinct.

Great leap? What?

You won't be able to even monitor what they're doing entirely. So you won't know. And you won't be able to check on them very often.

> Muskly hardly needs resources
That's why completely subsidized by the state?
>Edisons, Teslas, Einsteins
Yes. It is quite meme-level and shows ignorance in the exponentially rising cost of scientific and technological advancement and implementation.
Also, the mordern technological race is in the digital world thanks to the information revolution.
Archaic =/= wrong. Opinions are not things to be ashamed of as long as you willing to change them if better evidence or argument presented. Which you didn't.

There may be minor expeditions but there won't be a colony for at the very least another century or two.

Technology isn't there yet. Let's build a goddamn space elevator and moonbase first so we can actually supply a Martian base.

>Press the wrong button and boom, your room is depressurized and you're dead.

hahahahah :'D

as soon as you step outside of the perimeter of the law, there is only 1 law that rules, the rule of the gun

hopefully it'll be the wild west all over again

The Sun is kinda continue to exist while it literally destroys itself. A bacteria in a petri dish is flourishing - until it consumes the resources that made the flourishing possible. Mankind is flourishing and adapting - exponentially - until there is simply no gradient to exploit in our interest, then, collapse.
The great leap - from here to Mars

yikes, I can smell your cum-encrusted trench coat from here. what could a human do that a computer could not? short answer : nothing.

"creativity" at the functional level is driven by the interaction of neurons. we can simulate neurons. therefore there is not reason why we shouldn't be able to simulate creativity in the near future.

I don't like the space elevator idea, it's too logistically complicated.

My heart says better to invest in materials and engineering to bring about a new type of propulsion. Once that breakthrough occurs, going into space can become more economical and we can start building large-scale spaceports and eventually moon bases.

It's not a trench coat.
oh, now it is. well.
> we will be able to simulte creativity
That should increase the quality of leafposting dramatically.

Or any other form of non-rocket space launch.

The current technology will never, ever, be applied on the scale required to maintain a sizeable off-world base.

ebooktrove.com/Asimov, Isaac/Asimov, Isaac - The Martian Way.pdf

>implying even one generation of humans would survive on Mars

What does 76 mean?

>Thinks Mars is going to happen
>Lives at home still

no one leaves the firmament

>> no breathable atmosphere
bringing in shitload of plants and oxygen tanks will fix that
>> low gravity leads to ostheoporosis
weighted clothes
>> no fuel material (fossil or nuclear)
solar power
>> soils are shit, full with chlorites, meaning no low-cost farming
the'll find something
>> no magnetosphere protecting from radiation
the'll find something

>Artificial biosphere

It's been done before. Even then, we can mechanically and chemically maintain an atmosphere by recycling and reducing oxygen waste, and filtering out the carbon (chemicals, etc whatever)

I'll post examples of the artificial biome if you want

Gundam has taught me that everything goes wrong.

A dutch should know a little better, that agriculture is a little more complicated than mentioned.
>they'll find something
such argument, them sources, wow

I was merely pretending

That would be kind, thank you.
For a counterexample, here's one:
pnas.org/content/112/31/9511.full.pdf

Pretending... to be dutch?

That will never happen. If by some reason it did you and your fellow yuropoors would not be invited anyways because you would be under Sharia or some boon government. Facts are all of you cease to exist as yourselves. You're done. Fin. End. Don't pass GO. Your culture and society are dead.

youtu.be/RNf8MDS-BFo?t=45m1s

realistically

early on it would be similar to the americas when they were first discovered. countries would have their colonies there

later on though if the populations grew and became more permanent and people start being born there the colonies would gradually gain independence but probably trade with earth based nations

When deep space exploration ramps up, it'll be the corporations that name everything, the IBM Stellar Sphere, the Microsoft Galaxy, Planet Starbucks.

No it would not. Only some countries can afford to send people to Mars and most countries are unsuitable for actual space programs.

> no breathable atmosphere
oxygen is a byproduct of methane production
> low gravity leads to ostheoporosis
in zero-g/free fall the bone mass loss rate is 1% per month. on mars it will be ridculously lower, almost certainly non-existent.
> no fuel material (fossil or nuclear)
why on earth would uranium be exclusive to earth? think about what you are saying. and fossil fuels... well it's not impossible that mars has them, although very unlikely.
> soils are shit, full with chlorites, meaning no low-cost farming
nonissue, hydroponics
> no magnetosphere protecting from radiation
mar's thin atmosphere does provide protection. build underground, etc.

The difference is it's cheaper to build on the moon than Mars and requires less resources. Mars is a non starter. It will never be more than a lunar landing where one can claim a first. It's pointless otherwise.

>Only some countries

most countries didnt have new world colonies either

many tried but most fucked up badly

it would end up being 2-4 powers building colonies and others would probably try and fuck up

>Jewish martians

No it would be one possibly two that would make an attempt and it wouldn't be any European country or the EU itself.

delet this

Oh and I forget the whole idea of colonies. Wildest dreams they might put a research station like the Antarctic one there. That's even a pipe dream.

Colonies was estabilished to extract high-value resources to the mother countries in an economically efficient way.
What exactly the martian colonies would provide back and how it would be economical to transfer matter between planets?

They'll rat each other out, just like people were doing for centuries before 1984 came true and it became unnecessary.

I'm sure it will be earth based until they are able to operate outside of earth help.

Once Mars can do their own shit they won't really need us. We will likely have some kind of space response force by then to lock shit down in case of trouble

Will we be allowed on Mars?

would totally fuck a chick with 3 tits

Spain/Portugal setup colonies purely for wealth extraction. It's why most of Central and South America are all mongrel half breeds with low IQ. Britain did things another way. Hard to say if it was better or something else like the Navy being all important that mattered more. That meant they controlled much of trade like the Dutch used to.

Not an argument

What do you think Eli?

(OP)
The way I see it we have 3 options.
Option A: China, Russia or the US gets there first and claims the whole planet. A war ensues (most likely).
Option B: Whoever gets there first says "we need as much cooperation as possible, this is OUR planet but everyone can help fix it up." (Less likely, but plausible).
Option C: It is decided that Mars is off limits to border-drawing and dibs-calling before anyone even sets foot on it. It belongs to everyone and no one (unlikely).

Mars, once we can create consistent sustainable life upon the surface, will be the USA of space.

There's a standing treaty that forbids countries to claim territory anywhere outside Earth. I think Russia and US are among the signatories.

>The way I see it we have 3 options.
>Option A: No. There's nothing to fight over. Resources can't be brought back.
>Option B: No. Stupid.
>Option C: This. UN is useless and these platitudes are the most realistic expectation.

Theyll set up maybe a VERY small "colony" (more like a scientific outpost like the ones on Antarctica or the space station), because the cost of living there is ... well, astronomical.
They'll try to make it self sustainable with some sort of futuristic greenhouse agriculture and solar plants.
Some decades/centuries later, when space travel is cheaper, they'll begin setting up more outposts and maybe at some point a mining colony will be established if they discover something worth extracting.

>do it
>violate the treaty
>shower rods from gods down on any nation which threatens to give a shit

Russia and the US are the only ones who did anything. Russia did most though. EU is busy figuring out how to fuck their consumers more by making more warning labels.

They'll use Spaniards as fertilizer as they still can't find work even in the future. They finally found a use for them.

This is possibly a stupid question, but wouldn't Mars be a better point from which to launch asteroid belt mining operations than Earth? Mars isn't valuable per se, but its location in the solar system is.

The moon is how we start. Mars is a foolish distraction. Our moon can be industrialized and turned into an energy production center.

The moon dwarfs everything in that regard due to proximity and cost.

Somebody post the delta-v map.

Maybe, but not until they have run out of Americans. The exergy and efficiency of lardy, burger fed massive landwhales is just too great in comparison, and the sheer amount of methane generated in their protruding guts would have the bonus effect of helping terraforming the planet with the powerful greenhouse gas athmosphere

New studies show the grease and olive skin as they biodegrade provide a more enriching feed for our crops. Monsanto and Cargill have already done the studies on this so it's fact. Portugal will likely be another great source as most of the South America too especially Brazil.

Thats why its better to colonize space in O'neill space stationsz Colonizing planets is unecessery.

We get free bullpups too.

fuck i wanted to make a babylon 5 reference

Or we could skip both the Moon snd Mars and go straight to the asteroids.
Just set up O'Neil and Reagan type colonies around say Ceres and mine rest. You could still explore planets but it easier to have an artificial, controlled environment than try to terreform Mars.

>First colonies on Mars under US-government control
>More colonies established by other countries
>Mars ends up as a border clusterfuck
>Martians are treated like shit by their Earth-based governments
>Martians rebel and become independent, one by one
Humans can't cooperate, we've seen this several times before. It'd be cool living on Mars tho