So can we take a minute to talk about how fucked Diana's rogues gallery is right now...

So can we take a minute to talk about how fucked Diana's rogues gallery is right now? More than half of them never progressed since the Gold/Silver age, and 3/4 of the ones most people know about are constantly written as shit.
>Cheetah is stuck in the "I'm cursed" rut
>Ares and his generic overlord look doing fucking whatever with conflict
>Circe only getting recognition in Trinity
>Giganta constantly reduced to jobber tier to show how much stronger a character is, and mostly remembered for fetish shit with The Atom.
>Fucking Grail
Not to mention writers are so fixated on doing mythic shit. So what should be done? Who should they dig up? What should change?

Who the fuck thought Giganta was a good idea? That character is a total waste.

I like the idea, but given that her character progression is nonexistent and shes mostly reduced to "Giant Robot" level threat for most stories its hard to care about her. I mean she was a scientist for christ sake. Do something with that. Being an actual threat would help too

>She was a scientist
I thought she was a gorilla

That's because you're a casual.

BLOWN THE FUCK OUT
T
F
O

Name 3 Wonder Woman villains who have only appeared in books and aren't directly ripped from mythology.

I can do that but they're all pretty shit
>Minister Blizzard
>Cheetah
>Doctor Psycho

It's partly because the writers would rather write about the Olympians and partly because the characters haven't gotten fleshed out like Batman's have.

>only appeared in books
>Cheetah

That's what I thought.

>only appeared in books
>Cheetah

You what?

You couldn't come up with Crimson Centipede or Mouse Man?

The First Born
Grail
Blue Snowman

Next question.

Whoops I forgot Cheetah was in the DCAU due to how awful that portrayal of her was.
1. Sauturnia
2. Evilness (look it up that's real)
3. Minister Blizzard
Are those real?

Theres also Doctor Cyber who was one of the few things I liked about Rucka's Rebirth run. Oh and Cale I guess.

>the "wondy has no villains" meme

The absolute fastest way to out someone as a non-reader.

Very real

>WW BTFO

Cyber I think was in the background at least once in JLU

IIRC Gail Simone reused this character by turning him into a Hecatedonkawhatever and being Diana's clay dad.

Doctor Cyber was in Justice League.

Saturna is a revamp of Eviless.

Veronica Cale's problem is Rucka; she's simply uninteresting and poorly motivated under his pen.

>IIRC Gail Simone reused this character by turning him into a Hecatedonkawhatever

Well that's just bullshit

Yeah, I get that her being Greek is "super fucking neato!" or whatever, but there's nothing wrong with having villains who are just super villains not linked to Greek myth

Love the amount of WW threads we've been getting lately.

She only appears as a hologram and only the post-Crisis version.

Don't forget the evil Asian stereotype egg.

This dude is amazing

But I love cursed cheetah

Do those really count if no one knows who they are and they're only there to be props in the background? Besides DCAU Cheetah was fucking awful because like WW herself Dini and Timm didn't really give a shit about them so they just had Batman fuck her.

yeah for all timm & dini did right they weren't fantastic at actually fleshing out a lot of their female characters, kind of mixed results

catwoman kinda sucked

I like Cale more as a support of The Doom Patrol than as a support of Diana.

The problem is that revamping Crimson Centipede while keeping close to the original puts it firmly into monster territory, which doesn't necessarily make for a good recurring supervillain.

She was a gorilla from the golden age to the bronze age. Hyper evolved into a large woman by a machine invented by Dr. Zeul. Her primary motivation was beating up Wonder Woman and stealing Steve Trevor. She did not have growing powers, she was just big and strong.

Superfriends version was used as Apache Chief's rival. She stole some of his magic powder for its power, and it magnified her evil 100 fold and gave her growing powers. It was the most well known and enduring version of the character.

Post-Crisis, one of the most ill-conceived origins. Dr Zeul, now Dr. Doris Zeul, is dying and built a machine to swap minds to save herself. She decides to steal Wonder Woman's body, because she's the villain. It goes wrong and her assistant puts her mind into that of a gorilla called Giganta. Giganta-Doris goes after Wonder Girl, but fails and isn't seen again for a while. Next time she shows up, she's sporting the Super Friends look and growing powers with no explanation. A bit later we get a recap where we find out she stole some comatose strong woman's body that was magicked up, with the implication that's where her powers come from. She continued to be a generic bruiser, occasionally with slight maybe she's not so bad moments (even though she's walking around in someone else's body). Oh and the whole wanting to steal Wonder Woman's body thing shows up as her motivation in one or two other things like DC Universe Online.

There are a few things I liked from Rucka's Rebirth run
1. Cheetah. I finally give a shit about her and I feel like she has a solid place in Diana's world. I think her relationship makes sense now, she finally has a good reason to hate Diana, and I like that she's the "Two-Face" the former best friend who went bad.
2. I liked Doctor Cyber. I liked how she didn't really take things seriously and liked fucking around with people. With some more focus I think she could be great.
3. I liked the little we saw of Rucka's Circe, wish we could've seen more of her.
Deibos and Phoebes were dweebs, Cale was ok but I wish Cheetah had killed her at the end of the run, and while I liked how Ares found redemption I wish Rucka had set up a replacement for him. I also really liked Azz's Mentor Ares.

...

...

Problem with Giganta is the only version worth a damn was the Super Friend version where she was a no-good teenage delinquent who stole a part of Apache Chief's power. They should stick to that version of her if they want to use her, because Diana needs at least one normie villain who just does evil for the lulz.

Golden Age Giganta was a gorilla turned into a human who was super strong. No growing.

Super Friends revamped her as a teenage dirtbag who stole part Apache Chief's power to become a giantess/had super strength.

Giganta never appeared past the Golden Age for decades, even with Super Friends rescuing her from obscurity. The character finally returned in the comics, in convoluted fashion, during the run that happened between the John Byrne run and the Phil Jimenez run.

Modern Giganta started out as an old lady scientist who build a device that could transfer one's mind into another person's body, effectively killing the person who's body was being highjacked.

The old scientist wanted Wonder Woman's body but in the fight that happened, the scientist ended up having her mind transferred into a gorilla's body.

A couple of issues later, Giganta (with powers like the Super Friends version) appeared and revealed to Diana that she was said scientist. Her henchmen found a mentally retarded freakshow performer with super powers to grow big and strong. So they transferred her mind into said freakshow performer, killing her in the process of over-writing her mind with the mad scientist's mind.

Said writer wanted Giganta to be a super-genius villain but Jimenez and Simone basically ignored said writer's work on making Giganta a mad scientist to make her dumb muscle.

That's still an appearance.

Based on the parameters dumb user set, yes it counts.

"this character didn't do anything but fuck Batman so does it count as an appearance?" Are you stupid?

Some of the villains could be retooled as anti-SJW villains to give the Wonder Woman a fresh take on her stories:

1. Doctor Psycho. Make him an evil version of SJW advice columnist Dr Nerdlove. Instead of hating women, he hates men and basically goes around as helping women ruin their ex boyfriends/husbands lives and helping asshole beta boys kill their Chad rivals, putting him in conflict with Wonder Woman.

2. Blue Snowman is a dumb bimbo wannabe STEM scientist who created a race of snowman robots for a theme park, which ultimately go rogue. Her gimmick is that she constantly is defending her creations murderous deeds, claiming that anyone talking ill of them are racist against robots and that robots are oppressed and that the murders they committed are justified due to anti-robot prejudice.

3. Black Mask is a spoiled trophy wife who wants to ruin her he-man action hero/adventurer explorer husband because he won't spend every moment catering to her every whim and need.

>that Blue Snowman MO

Hahaha, holy shit

Thank you for actually explaining her whole deal instead of going "durr hurr, casual".

I actually would have let Doctor Cyber slide as someone people knew from the comics, but fuck guys, Cheetah was in the Legion of Doom. That is not proof of actually reading.

>The experiment may kill this beast-so I´ll agree.

1. No clue who this Dr Nerdlove is so this one goes over my head.

2. So basically robot muslims and the white women who defend them?

3. Who the hell is Black Mask? Drawing a blank on that name...

Can we admit that Giant Evil Alien Chinese Communist Egg is actually a really cool villain?

I don't know, I think Silver Swan has some potential. An animated series would probably be a good way to get people to care about Wonder Woman's extended cast

1. Doctor Nerdlove, aka Harris O'Malley is a failed comic artist who decided to set up a website giving romance advice to nerds and geeks. And by giving romantic advice, basically spewing SJW talking points about how masculinity is toxic and evil and that you need to be a pussy/submissive to get m'lady to date you.

He's a huge SJW and managed to befriend Leigh Alexander, who got his website pimped on the Guardian and other places. In return, he was part of the anti-Gamergate smear campaign and participated in the "Gamers Are Dead/Don't Have To Be Your Audience" organized hit piece campaign. For his betrayal of his fellow nerds, Leigh rewarded him with a book deal.

2. Bingo.

3. Black Mask was a Golden Age Woder Woman villain: a mentally disturbed housewife who went insane because her husband neglected her, in order to run off with a fellow female explorer. Said female explorer eventually had a falling out with her (she claimed that the guy was stealing credit for the stuff she found on their adventures) so she decided to kill her husband and frame his gal pal for the crime.

Per the kinky nature of the Golden Age Wonder Woman, Black Mask's gimmick was bondage masks with built in gags, that if removed improperly, would release poison that killed the wearer. She put them on people to force them to do her bidding and to try and starve her husband to death. Wonder Woman defeated her and exposed her true identity, leading to her going to the madhouse.

Outside a cameo in the 60s in Justice League (were an illusion of her appeared along with other JLA bad guys), Black Mask did not appear again until after Infinte Crisis run as part of a mob of villains that Wonder Woman fought. The issue included a text dump about her new background: Black Mask was now a hired killer that women pay to kill their husbands.

Maybe if you weren't a casual, we wouldn't have to explain this to you.

>Black Mask
Well I'm confused

maybe if we can solve the mystery of where these giant talking eggs come from. Apparently they're hatched.

One character to dig up that I like is Panthea. Single issue villain, an Amazon who enacted a coup on Themyscira because she felt that Hippolyta's rule had led to technological stagnation (and this was when they still had space cruisers)

Has anyone done anything with Dr. Psycho in awhile?

Though her followers did wear helmets that looked like butts (or possibly a bosom-the proud symbol of the amazons).

He's around from time to time. Just never in Wonder Woman comics.

>An animated series would probably be a good way to get people to care about Wonder Woman's extended cast
I fucking hope she gets one after the runaway success that was the movie. We need some more DC cartoons that aren't fucking Batman shows already. Hell, even Superman has only had three shows within the entirety of his existence. I wouldn't even mind getting another Superman cartoon, if not another Green Lantern show or Flash: The Animated Series.

I think he has a LOT of potential. I think someone said in one of the last WW threads, he strikes the perfect balance between someone who is genuinely pitiable but whom is still a vile, creepy, evil human being. He works very well as a tragic villain.

Doctor Poison should get more love too. In the right hands, she is creepy as fuck.

Id kill for an animated Flash or Wonder Woman show. A WW show would force animators to dig up Wondy villains and give them a new spin.

Plus it'd do a lot to put Wondy in the public consciousness more, along with her villains. They need respect badly.

Hardest part would be getting writers who know anything about WW.

They need depth badly. Part of WW's rogues gallery problem is no one uses them, so they're stuck in the one note characterization they got when they were created. B:TAS completely retooled Mr. Freeze which made him massively popular. Let people do that with WW and her rogues would get more respect. Rucka pretty much already did it in his Rebirth run.

I'd imagine Gail Simone would be ecstatic to write it.

And I would too but fuck me, I'd have to go back to and finish college first.

>B:TAS completely retooled Mr. Freeze which made him massively popular. Let people do that with WW and her rogues would get more respect.
Exactly what I was thinking. There's so much potential there with Wondy's villains. I wish someone did for her what Johns did for GL.

Someone needs to bring back The Circle too while we're at it.

>mfw not enough fetish shit with Giganta

Theres too much in my opinion. I'd rather Giganta be worth a damn in comics

We'll never get Dr Psycho in a movie because he's too problematic

>Theres too much in my opinion
there is never enough
never

It shouldn't be an either/or situation.

Simone's version of Giganta was a university professor who more or less was a supervillain for the lulz. Giganta hadn't been dumb muscle since One Year Later.

I think Cheetah side-graded with changes but didn't really improve. Villains never need a good reason to hate heroes and the former friend turned evil shtick was done better and with more impact with the Vanessa Kapatelis version of the Silver Swan. If anything John's version of their relationship was better for character development since you could easily flip the conventional hero/villain dynamic. Instead of Cheetah hating WW it's WW who can't get over Cheetah's betrayal of her trust and friendship.

One of the older WW villain threads had an idea for Blue Snowman that turned her into an engineer who absolutely despises SJWs for indirectly ruining her career while demanding more women in STEM.

Also Dr. Psycho already hates men.

>Giganta on the cover of the new Wonder Woman arc
>Just an opening fight not connected to the plot where Diana easily overpowers her
Well fuck me for expecting anything else

But he's a fucking villain. It's okay for villains to be "problematic," isn't it? He's an evil monster of a man, and that's okay because that's what he's supposed to be.

You can't show him being mean or creepy towards women these days user, if anything I'm sure he'd insult Diana by saying her top is a size too big for her bust or something like that

Giganta is actually a reference to an old circus act where a beautiful lady is turned a gorilla.

Fortunately Patty Jenkins is directing the WW sequel. If anyone would be willing to put a creepy misogynist in a villain role, it'd be the woman who put the Amazons in high heels and leather swimsuits.

Rucka only touched a handful of Diana's rogues and none of his changes were universally accepted. Ironically, the BTAS retool of Mr. Freeze is one-note, it's just a damn good note.

>butt shaped helmets
kek

I really wish writers wouldn't make Giganta's height an either/or situation between her human size and giant size.

>TFW I liked giganta X atom
My boy Ryan was gettin crushed in a good way

>Fortunately Patty Jenkins is directing the WW sequel.
Thank fuck for that.

I can think of a few places Wondy can store a tiny man

>Giganta never appeared past the Golden Age for decades
She had at least another origin issue in 1966, but I'm not sure if anything else was done with her.

Apparently she had one other Silver Age appearance in '67 and that's it.

MOOOOOOOOOOOM THEY WERE MEAN TO ME!!!

>A woman with a codename that has the word man without the wo in it.

That's pretty feminist already.

>Ironically, the BTAS retool of Mr. Freeze is one-note
So was Mr. Freeze before the retool. Wasn't he basically The Batman Mr. Freeze? He wasn't really interesting.

>Blue Snowman
>Snowman
>owman
>Woman

It rarely works when they try to wedge in all the different versions of a character just to have them all together. It just makes the whole origin a really convoluted mess.

You know, that alone works with Giganta. Not everyone needs to have some amazing world conquering villain scheme.

Spoiled bitch that got her hands on some superpowers now she likes picking on the little people is good enough.

I honestly can't recall a single time Giganta has had an evil plan or villainous plot of her own. She's always just been a hired goon or a member a Villain Inc/Injustice League.

Giganta is a mad scientist AND she's magic. She should be building magic death rays. If Giganta were to have evil plans, what would they be?

>No one mentioning my boy Angle Man

>builds a successful mind transfer machine
>gets no respect because she's not churning out death rays like Luthor or Sivana

Being Giganta is suffering.

Giganta's Evil Plans
1)Steal a collection of bodies for her swap closet. Also steal a lot of clothing for her many bodies.
2)Set up a criminal enterprise where the rich and powerful can pay to be moved into a new body.
3)Trick Atlas into letting her take his place and hold the world hostage
4)Ruin Wonder Woman's date night
5)Create an elaborate gauntlet of disasters across the globe and lure the foremost shrinky guys of the world to them, to see which one is the cutest.
6)Fight Apache Chief
7)Put on a World's Strongest contest, then cheat to win.
8)Pick up Steve Trevor and climb a tall building
9)Transfer some people's brains into gorillas so they can infiltrate Gorilla City and get her that sweet advanced gorilla tech. Meanwhile release a bunch of gorillas in human bodies into a city to make things difficult for somebody.
10)A series of attacks to provoke Hiro Okamura because she really wanted to fight a giant robot that month.

Ill-defined powers and wielding what is essentially a square set aren't exactly things that will endear you to readers.

Indeed it is.

No need. He's already perfection.

Reminder this is Giganta's new origin

That's basically the old one except without the gorilla and the body switching. And Wonder Woman.

When will he show up again?

There isn't even any magic

There was never any actual magic involved in Giganta's origin. She just happened to put her mind in the body of someone who had magic powers.

Is this problem as big as with Thor?
Most of his rogues are just Norse based or made for the Norse mythology. I’ve never seen him throw down as much with Radioactive Man or Grey Gargoyle.

The WW villain is just The Mask.

Its easier to explain than some think - He has gravity control and teleportation powers.

Thor has a fully fleshed out civilization for Asgard and the Nine Realms that allow for a broad range of stories. Wonder Woman doesn't have that, nor does Thor have a mandate to shepherd Earth. Different types of story underpinnings.