Batman Begins is the best Batman movie ever made, even better than Mask of the Phantasm

Batman Begins is the best Batman movie ever made, even better than Mask of the Phantasm.

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Why?

I agree. It doesn't get enough credit. They were patient waiting until 40 minutes before Batman actually shows up. The villains were credible and cool, and the only weak spot is Katie Holmes. Who at least doesnt look like Ben Quadrinaros.

>Scarecrow is so retarded he plans to poison all of Gotham's water supply and doesn't know that merely boiling the water (and Gotham obviously uses boiled water) would filter his shit out
Yeah, no

Did you mean The Dark Knight?

It's definitely the strongest of the trilogy.
I'm slightly iffy on Bale, just because there's times where it feels like they're trying to make him look a lot younger and he just seems silly instead.

Absolutely god-tier casting for Gordon, Alfred, and Ra's though.

Not necessarily. Water purification goes beyond simply boiling water. Obviously if he was going to hijack the water supply he'd either shut off the purification system or simply hijack it after that.

Okay I can respect th
>Than Mask of Phantasm
Fuck off

seconded, motion passed

It's a completely generic, by-the-numbers superhero origin movie that doesn't have the strong performances or distinct directing style that made TDK a good movie. It's the kind of movie you immediately forget about after you see it because there's simply nothing interesting or especially well-done about it.

It'd fit in really well with modern cape movies, though.

He's a casual who thinks it's more accurate to the comics or something

Mask of the Phantasm is just so overrated though
It's not even the best animated Batman movie

This
It's enjoyable but feels kinda pointless. They just throw Joker in at the middle so that he can have a fight with Batman and Phantasm. Would've worked much better if Batman had to protect Joker, his worst enemy, from Phantasm, his beloved one. It's really weird how this concept had so much drama potential yet ended up being so underused.

>there's simply nothing interesting or especially well-done
"I won't kill you but I won't save you either" was kino, user
Plus it did stand out amongst many other cape films of 2000s by knowing exactly what it was trying to do, an aspect it could be only be rivaled in by (first two for each) Spider-Man and X-Men movies back then.

> even better than Mask of the Phantasm.
guaranteed_replies
Mask of the Phantasm is second only to Under the Red Hood

Best of the Nolan trilogy ? Probably (let's not pretend Heath Ledger wasn't the only good thing about TDK)
Better than it gets credit for ? Yes.
But it's not the best Batman movie and it sure as fuck ain't better than Mask of the Phantasm.

This was the best

It is really good, I just wish it had the "I shall become a bat" scene.

Let us not pretend Scarecrow has ever been a paragon of sanity and logic

>kino
Well looks like its a Sup Forums fag explains it all

It's crap. It ruined the franchise. Live action Batman will never recover.

check them

Did you fall asleep? That's what the climax of the movie is. Joker starts poking around into mafia affairs and attracts the attention of the Phantasm, and Batman has to deal with them both.

>(let's not pretend Heath Ledger wasn't the only good thing about TDK)
You didn't watch the movie.
youtube.com/watch?v=dJma8pVAvH4

>better than Mask of the Phantasm
Please elaborate

Well, Batman Begins is definitely the best of the 3 Christopher Nolan movies. I think Mask is better, the scene at the graveyard was fantastic, and him confronting his girlfriend while he's Batman was great.

>The villains were credible
Scarecrow was dumb, and they shouldn't have blown their load on Ra's Al Ghul in the first film. If they had actually plotted their shit out properly, the first one would have barely had any supervillain at all and been about Batman fighting the mob in Gotham only to discover the League of Shadows was behind it. At some point some unnamed mafia goon with a red bag on his head falls into a vat of chemicals, possibly some proto-scarecrow shit.

Imagine how much better the films would have been if Talia was introduced as a love interest in the 2nd film along with Catwoman, and Ra's had been the final boss of 3?

"I won't kill you but I don't have to save you" was exemplary of a fundamental failure to understand the character.

Batman's no-kill rule is *self imposed*. His reasoning behind it has been interpreted a bunch of different ways (maybe he needs to show people the justice system works, maybe he believes every life is worth saving, whatever), but what's always true is that nobody's making him do it and he's doing it because he believes in it. Killing is on Batman's god damn no-nos list and the thought that he would try (or even want) to rules-lawyer his way out of it by letting a man die because technically it's not killing him (despite the fact that, in the film, Batman is literally holding onto Ra's and lets go of him before he parachutes out, ensuring his death) is ridiculous.

If Batman actually wanted to kill a bad guy, he could just do it, no differentiation between "killing" and "not saving" necessary. But he doesn't. Because he's Batman.

>"Now wait, Batman's killed before!"

You're right, but that doesn't really apply when Nolan for some reason decided to make the major conflict of the film about Batman's no-kill rule. It's the reason he left the League of Shadows. It's the reason Ra's turned from an ally into an antagonist. It's the climactic moment of the film. And then Batman just decides that it's okay to let just this one guy die as long as he can spin it as not his responsibility? That's not just counter to most interpretations of the character, it's counter to the character *as established in that same fucking movie*. It's stupid.

Hell, the pithy one-liner is just icing on the cake. This is the same guy who bitched at Ra's about "I'm not your executioner", but he drops the guy off with a one-liner when he decides he needs to die? Try this: imagine that same scene, except without the line. How fucked up would that be? Batman's holding onto Ra's, then just lets him go and flies away, leaving him to die. People would be screaming "not muh!"

Batman Begins is the strongest installment in the Nolan trilogy, which progressively got weaker
>Better than Mask of the Phantasm
Thats too far, user.

>It's not even the best animated Batman movie
Which one is it then?

Batman Begins is a fantastic movie, certainly one of the best cape movies. But it's not the best Batman movie, it's not even the best live action Batman movie, it's not even the best live action Nolan movie.

> Sup Forums worshipped TDK and kissed the ground it walked on
>TDK SP2 and reeves Supes the only three films to top Sup Forumss watch list
>board is attacked and overrun by Sup Forums and tumblr
>newfags rally around BB because it's the oldest

Fuck off you Sup Forumsntrarian nostalgia fags.

I did and I watched a terrible depiction of Harvey Dent that stripped Two-Face of characterization to make him a Joker sideshow

I was saying Batman Begins is the best Bats movie since Dark Knight came out. I actually thought TDK was overrated as heck but very good. I'd say Begins is a solid 8, Dark Knight a 7 and Rises a 5.

But it's badass. Your (Sup Forums's) problem is that badass isn't a good enough reason for something to be in a cape comic for you.

>show people the justice system works,
This has nothing to do with the rest of your post but am I the only one put off by this Batman mentality of "I'll not kill this mass murderer I'll just let the law handle him" I know the majority of his Rogues get deemed insane and put in institutions but what happens when the judge does his job and puts a baddie on Death Row? Or if a Judge is corrupt and wants a bad guy off the streets anyway?
Does Gotham even have a Death Penalty? It was especially disgusting in the Gotham episode when Alfred tells Bruce it's up to the jury to handle Ra's. They were going to kill him anyway and now Bruce is mopey because.... Ra's asked Bruce to kill him, himself?

I mean it's not as if Batman is a founding father who thinks citizens and juries should decide. It's not like the X-Men where he thinks Superheroes shouldn't be above the law. No. He just wants to play hero and at the same time say he doesn't have blood on his hands, nevermind the people who might've died because he interferred.

Well if your going to include animated movies Bayman Begins will get Btfo everytime by either Under the Red Hood or The Dark Knight Returns pt 1. Even those are better than The Dark Knight and Phantasm. People only like Phantasm for nostalgia. They like TDK for Ledger, Ledger's edgy lines, and Retrospect after Ledger's suicide.
TDKR pt 1.and UTRH at least have satisfying endings to Batman characters and Rogues. I might even switch TDKR with Return of the Joker for being more realistic but ultimately it's an amalgam of both.

>movie comes out
>Sup Forums genuinely enjoys it and openly praises it
>a couple of months pass
>Sup Forums acts like the movie is shit and only idiots enjoy it
Every time for cape movies.

TDK gets an extra scooping of hate because it's enjoyed by normies, and because Ledger's Joker inspired a legion of insufferable fans.

Which is a shame because Ledger was a very good Joker- by no means definitive mind you- that fit perfectly within the style of the movie.

> that stripped Two-Face of characterization to make him a Joker sideshow

That's retarded.

Harvey's downfall is essential. People like to repeat "hurr they should have just saved Two-Face" over and over but there's no movie without Harvey's downfall, it wraps up the themes of the story perfectly.

I never understand people who want worldbuilding over good storytelling. Every time someone says that writers should have "saved" a villain for a later movie like every fucking comic adaptation has to actually be paced like a comic book I instantly lose whatever ability I have to take their opinions seriously.

Making a good movie matters more then making it "feel like a comic book."

Except for the terrible flaw in Batman's origin story.

But the thing is that Batman Begins was created under the impression that it was going to be the only movie Batman movie they were going to make, and it's better for it because it feels like a more complete film instead of an episode of a tv show, unlike Man of Steel or something from the MCU. The only sequel baiting is in the end with the Joker card.

Return of the Joker

Batman is literally insane. He obsessively fights crime as a vigilante due to childhood trauma that he never got over. He knows he's insane, so he set up the no-killing rule as a bright line to keep himself from going off the deep end. Because he knows he would if he didn't have a line. He's smart, and smart people are great at rationalizing things.

So why leave the criminals to the legal system? Even if it might produce the same result as what Batman might do if he were unrestrained by his rules of behavior? Because that's what people do in a civilization. The system is imperfect and probably corrupt, but it's better than the alternative, so if people keep it teetering along, they can have some nice things. Batman's vigilantism fits into a place where the system isn't working as well as it should, but it works with the parts that remain somewhat functional, rather than subverting the entire legal/justice system.

I think Batman should just go all out; Balls-to-the-walls. If (in most Batman mythos) the cops consider him a criminal for vigilantism, but most of the law is corrupt why shouldn't he just admit he's a hypocrit and go after everyone who breaks the law including the law enforcement? It's like how the Punisher knows he's a murderer and is prepared to off himself after he stops crime. Except Bats refuses to acknowledge his own hypocrisy.
That or he legitimately doesn't realise could do so much better as Bruce Wayne. He just has more fun going out and being a ninja. This is why I want to get into Judge Dredd. At least he's for the law no matter what.

Did you miss the part where the Joker is an ex-mafioso? Which is why the old dude went to him for help? Incidentally, the Phantasm knows that Joker was the one who killed her dad, so he was on her list from the start. Which the old guy said to Joker's face when he asked for help.