Did the digitalization of animation take a lot of of the creativity out of the medium?

Did the digitalization of animation take a lot of of the creativity out of the medium?

I find myself bored of most modern animation and character designers, they're just missing that pop, they feel flat to me

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It's either real or it's a dream there's nothing that is in between

Twiliiiiiight

Am I awake or do I dream?

Digital inking is a requirement for great animation.

Stuff from the 90s and earlier just looks bad now.

I only meant to stay a while....

Still get goosebumps.

Wow, I have a lot more back hair these days.

No. You can still draw on paper/by hand, and there are MANY ways of colouring digitally, some cheap but garbage looking, some great. Just watch Space Dandy.

A great ELO album, haters need to fuck off.

But the entire album aside from Prolouge/Twilight is all generic shit that was too radio friendly for radio. It's just not good as an album pham. Twilight still 10/10.

If that was the first tit bounce in animation history, and the first for anime does anyone know the first tit bounce in western animation?

I just told you to fuck off, can you not follow simple orders?

>tfw this will never get an hd release and it will look like shit forever

Not that it would look much better in HD, it was shot on 8mm.

Yours Truly is great

Yeah but Out of the Blue, A New World Record, and Discovery are still infinitely better

1/10

It's one of the main reasons I watch 2000s toons.

The other being the animesque writing, of course.

>animesque

>Did the digitalization of animation take a lot of of the creativity out of the medium?
No, you just don't bother seeking out creative animation. You wait for it to come falling on your lap via word of mouth AKA things that are popular.

Colors used to be more detailed with shading and there was a certain shadow effect that made both pre digital animation and older style of film more grimey and cool looking. Theres a reason why i prefer 80s-90s film look to modern.

With anime at least the constant flatness of it has been abhorrent. The thin lines, muted color palettes, blobbier faces... god it sucks.

We need more degrees of shadow

someone post that simpsons side by side of the intro when it was hand drawn vs when they switched to digital

Yes? That's a word.

Muted colours has definitely subsided as a trend from what I've seen. Ultra simple angular character design still turns me off, I liked back when the weren't afraid to get a little organic

(OP)
No, see Little Go Beep.
When Space Dandy came to Telecom when they needed it the most, it only made matters worse as they were better off doing Aikatsu exclusively because the female characters kept their clothes on.

Bones should of just kept that cesspool of garbage to themselves so that Telecom can put in more effort on Aikatsu.

>To long, didn't read, Telecom was suffering on Aikatsu and Bones tried to save them, Telecom produced 2 episodes (2 & 17) and outsourced for other episodes for Bones but in the end only made things worse.
16MM, it was Anno's pre-Gainax live action projects that were in 8MM.
The 1940s will like to have a work with you.

a lot of modern korean-animated shows (the one big exception I can think of being Sugarcube's Star vs episodes) shows still ink on paper

We need less fucking bloom, god knows how long it's going to be before western companies pick up that disgusting habit from the japs

No, they ink on cels, we been through this, only SMIP destroys their paper with inking on the paper.

Rough Draft still uses cels for inking but the coloring is 100% digital.

...

>coloring will always be shitty flat colors with low opacity black shading layer
>no high contrast shadows like the neon red/blue stuff in the 90s
>no stark white watercolor esque lighting built into the color layer to make it really feel like they're in daylight
>no line variety to make light areas look like they don't even have a line, and dark areas look much denser, making foreground stuff with thicker lines pop out more
>backgrounds are all digital composting now where to the uninitiated it looks great, but to areas trained landscape artist it's obvious they just dragged and dropped a bunch of effect squares, nobody actually draws them from scratch anymore
>starting to notice even high production animation using shitty tricks like copy pasting frames and using the transform tool instead of actually drawing the logical next step on the action
>everyone over animating lip sync when it explicitly looms more natural the more economic you are about it, thus taking the effort away from body language
>people don't know the difference between timing and spacing and so nothing has any weight anymore
>everything is board driven by storyboards who don't know cinematography or eveb basic storytelling principles
>people only excuse all of this because occasionally the creator throws the fanbase a lore bone that never amounts to anything

Animation is fucked.

It's more of a problem of abusing the CGI effects and cutting the corners rather than tech itself.
Tweening, bone animation, templating, name it.
Sometimes I feel like the cartoons are being designed around the limitations of animation software rather than sticking to the vision of a cartoon and trying to make the most out of it with available resources.

You know shit's fucked when low budget SoL anime has better storyboarding and camerawork than mainstream kid cartoons.

dont worry, in 60-70 years they'll announce a platform game in the 90s style
and delay it just long enough so that we are all dead

as an animator i 100% agree

Golden age shorts also had flat coloring (99% of the time) and look how they turned out.

I'm curious user, what do you think of Gravity Falls in terms of this list? To me it seems to be the last major show to avoid the worst of these.

One thing I notice is that lights aren't as bright, and darkness isn't as black. Look at something like Patlabor 2.

I liked the way lights were done by shining a light through the cell, it really made it seem to have a genuine brightness. Rock and Rule, and Secret of NIMH also make great use of this.

>and darkness isn't as black
The light part maybe, but this just makes no sense. It should be much easier to do with digital.

It should be, but it's not.

Why?

Yes.

you CAN still make great shit with Digital, just see the things Disney churns out

but since it is cheaper and faster, most would just take the shortcut.

I don't fucking know. Ask an animator.

What I do know is that the deep blacks aren't really there now, more of a dark pastel-grey or navy blue.

>Disney
>great

The absolute state of American taste.

Post some of your favorite pre digital kino

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I think it was an old Mickey Mouse short when Clarabelle Cow hiked up her dress to show some thigh while hitchhiking, and her udders dropped into view.

there's nothing wrong with digital animation. It's just lazy and/or shitty artists that put less effort into what they make. instead of using digital tools to raise the bar of quality, they use them to make content as quickly and cheaply as possible.

How do you define bloom in 2D animation? Whenever I read about the term, it's always used to describe an effect on 3D animation. Can you point me to an example of anime that uses it?

>The thin lines
When did thin lines become Sup Forums's new boogeyman? Theatrical grade animation has always had thin lines, from Walt Disney's Snow White to Cartoon Saloon's Song of the Sea.

I've not nothing against thick lines, but does everything have to look like a 60's Hanna-Barberra or UPA cartoon for you to be happy?

>you CAN still make great shit with Digital, just see the things Disney churns out
Yeah, those new Mickey Mouse cartoons sure look, uh... "great".

Creativity? No. But digital animation often seems to lack a...well, for want of a better phrase, an "aesthetic soul". The whole "grainy cel animation" look combined with how animation looked on CRT monitors gave it a certain aesthetic that all-digital animation cannot match.

90s OVAs with bad dubbing on CRT is a magical experience.

simpsons was rough in the beginning but it had a charm i think when it went full digital it lost something

Not since 2013'ish with Get a Horse.
Why not Warner Bros?

Haruko wore it better.

This is a horrible opinion. I'll take Pinocchio's animation over a lot of digital.

thanks for not specifying animation technique
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You forgot the biggest sin: constant use of CGI. Want to zoom in on a character something? CGI the environment. Got something mechanical? CGI that car, motorcycle, plane, horse-drawn carriage, etc.

It never, ever, fits with the rest of the animation. It looks like shit every time. Just utter laziness by people for who drawing mechanical objects is, like, soooo hard.

What is even feral? A normal human acting like a animal?

better question, why is it that the US direct to video animation market was garbage compared to OVAS of the 80s and 90s?

>better question, why is it that the US direct to video animation market was garbage compared to OVAS of the 80s and 90s?

better question, why is it acceptable for Japanese animators to die from being overworked?

Dude, no, but there should be a balance, a middle ground.

>Dude, no, but there should be a balance, a middle ground.

I think there is when it comes to the European markets.

Who knows? Could be because it just doesn't look natural when done digitally, could be to make things easier to read on screen, or it even could be abject laziness on part of the color team.

Either way, it just looks weird when some scenes look less like they're in complete night and more like they're either underwater or in very dim light.

No, just nostalgia- but I really like stuff like diacon iv's coloring

The thing is a lot of those animators WANTED to overwork because they were manic obsessive over otaku culture shit.

Even the OP was made by a bunch of students that willingly rented out space in a sweatshop to willingly lose sleep and work intensely on this one animated thing for so long that they willingly just dropped out of school to do it.

Those guys eventually made evangelion and now they're fucking animu godheads.

The problem isn't that japs have an insane work ethic, it's that americans lost their work ethic outright.

Mechanical stuff is the easiest shit in the world to draw, why do people CG it so often?

you reminded me about creators of cuphead, they did same to finish the game.


also, yeah, the whole loyalty thing is unhealthy, working till boss leaves (who has no life,so he sits in the office until nights) , and then not taking the guarantees days off, as if it was some godsend gift. sad people.

ANGEL COP. FUCKING HELL YEAH.

>better question, why is it that the US direct to video animation market was garbage compared to OVAS of the 80s and 90s?

Because animation was (and still is) expensive as fuck and anime could go places that no American studio would ever go. I can imagine the uproar if a Western animation studio had released an OVA in the vein of "Ninja Scroll".

My favourite has always been Cyber City OEDO, but that's probably owing to the awesome techno-rock soundtrack that we got in the UK when it aired.
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Man, I miss the '80s/'90s anime scene. Lots of based-as-hell sci-fi, displays of body horror that even Hollywood horror filmmakers could never match, and the general artstyles/aesthetics that made it all look so goddamned awesome.

Show me an American animated film even half as wonderful as "Project A-Ko" and I'll say it's a film ripped from an alternate dimension.

This is what I miss about modern anime: the lack of 'tude. It's all quite childish, but I think the overabundance of misplaced cursing is part of the charm of them. They wouldn't be the same without all the swearing.

But there'a a lot of 'tude missing in the world these days.

>'tude

Why hello there fellow children.

Okay, but sneering condescension aside, I agree with you - that period of anime had a lot more attitude to it. Even the not-quite-as-edgy stuff - think "Gunsmith Cats" or "Record of Lodoss War" - still had their own special attitude and aesthetic about them. The last anime I've seen with anything approaching that kind of feel was "Panty & Stocking".

We don't talk about PSG because we watch anime because it the last remaining part of hand drawn animation to still use construction, if all anime became just as flat as PSG them well will be much better off watching Bojack Horseman & Rudish Mickey.

Isn't that the one where the Jews are trying to destroy Japan with super robo-drugs?

Even Cowboy Bebop, which was very pop, had that same "attitude", in fact I'd even argue that it was the swan song of that entire age.

To be honest, animating vehicles frame by frame is pretty hard. On 101 Dalmatians they even had to animate cars by photographing outlined cardboard models

Shit, you want a show that sums up the kind of attitude present in the anime of that general era?

MOTHERFUCKING "GOLDEN BOY".

It was perverse and thoughtful in equal measure, and it simply did not give a single fuck about being something for "everyone". But it also knew that restraint - or at least the appearance thereof - was the key to making the absurdity of the show pay off. If someone tried to make "Golden Boy" today, the show would focus far more on the tits'n'asses than it would on the story. The biker babe's masturbation scene would take up half the goddamn episode instead of being just a couple of minutes long, and it would be far more gratuitous to boot.

Golden Boy is also something that it's clear those making it had fun with it, especially the dub.
>that fucking swimming scene

"Golden Boy" is a goddamned global treasure; it should be both protected and (if possible) properly remastered for Blu-ray.

Probably has to do with level of detail that's expected now being too much of a pain in the ass for people to draw and animate by hand. It's annoying because it's one of the reasons modern mecha has become unwatchable; why do I want to watch something when the central part of the show is so fucking ugly?

Katoki is a garbage MS designer

A lot of those old movie/OVA schlock films that would play on Showtime and Action Channel and shit at like 11 PM or midnight were light on plot but big on action and nice visuals. Yoshiaki Kawajiri's stuff (Ninja Scroll, Wicked City, Demon City Shinjuku, Vampire Hunter D, Goku: Midnight Eye) were staples of that time and they're all really nice visually. Wicked City and Demon City Shinjuku especially. I love the dark blues and whites and whatnot that are a staple of his stuff.

Maybe it's just nostalgia but being 14 or 15 at the turn of the millennium, watching Showtime and the Action Channel for stuff like that or Fist of the North Star (or Dirty Pair, Gunsmith Cats, Patlabor II, and whatnot if it was a weekend afternoon) was always fun.

Patlabor 2 is still really good. I like it more than Ghost in the Shell.

Did you even read my post? I'm not talking about digital animation, I'm talking about digital ink and paint, where everything but the final coloring is done by hand.

>Because animation was (and still is) expensive as fuck and anime could go places that no American studio would ever go. I can imagine the uproar if a Western animation studio had released an OVA in the vein of "Ninja Scroll".

American animation is only expensive cause scams like Lets animate everyting on Toon Boom and Flash rigged models while expending 75% of the budget on the VAs while pretending this shit took us almost a year to produce per episode, when we only worked like a month.

It was one of the factors.

i only meant to stay a while

Does anybody have that image comparing old cel coloring in anime compared to digital coloroing?

something just popped

>Stuff from the 90s and earlier just looks bad now.
That's just shit taste. I will agree that it's not very economic to traditionally ink shit

Misspoke. I'll take the animation and art of Pinnochio over a lot of digitally colored works. Obviously anything that makes the animation process easier is good, but it's just shit taste to be unable to appreciate older works.

Post it! I want to see it myself.
But why? It's visibly worse, with the imperfections.

This one?
You could sway me over to your side if you said what these imperfections are. But just the whale scene alone puts other works to shame -- the detail in shading, the hand drawn splattering of water and gust, and the sheer momentum conveyed by the animation. I also immensely prefer carefully drawn and painted backgrounds.

This is cool, but it's not it. It was a picture from an anime (perfect blue I think) showing the actual difference in color that cels have compared to digital coloring and inking, if that makes sense. I've been trying to find it for ages.

>This one?
Of course not you dumbass, that's from before the digital era.

'tude' is an explicit reference to a time period when the expression was common

Yeah, computers made creating too easy and cause artists to get a little lazy.

I don't know why you responded to my comment, but that image strongly reeks of weeb, complete with cherrypicking and putting low budget TV shows on the same pedestal as OVAs. Strong shadows are incredibly important, and 80's-90's anime definitely has a distinct style because of it, but you run into the same problem of stagnation if you think there shouldn't be variety, which is why complaining about Disney's use of shading is beyond embarrassing

It's not even artists so much as it is studios. Animation is a business, and digital animation encourages quantity over quality, because it's more economic. What we shouldn't do is assume digital animation automatically implies a lack of quality

>Telecom
>Aikatsu
Hi Famicom.