Who was in the right here?

Who was in the right here?

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I don't watch the simpsons and don't know the context, but seeing as Homer's entire purpose is to be the idiot who provides the goat/impetus for the shows plotlines, i'm going to go out on a limb and say Homer

Get out the popcorn, Sup Forums. Threads about Homer's Enemy are guaranteed bump limit material.

Homer was.

homer, both grimes sr. and jr. were bitter assholes

Grimes was kind of an asshole desu.

Homer, but if Grimes killed himself on purpose, then he was right too.

In this particular situation, Homer. He got his house from his Father's support and went through a lot of unhappiness to support his family (I Married Marge and Maggie Makes Three). The lobster was, as it usually is, was for a special occasion. If Frank wasn't going full autist he would have noticed everyone in nice clothing and working to impress.
In context of the rest of the episode, Frank. As Homer's naivete, incompetence, and serendipity were highly played up

Homer is extremely annoying throughout this episode. The subplot is also annoying and completely pointless.

The virgin Grimes vs Homer Chad

Homer wasn't annoying. He was genuinely trying to make friends with Grimes, but Grimes couldn't accept that Homer had things so much better and got by work so easily and luckily.

can someone give me a quick rundown on the Grimes plotline and why he did all the things he did, like killing himself because of homer or something like that?

Homer.

Frank AT FIRST was genuinely in the right. Being punished for saving Homer's life via keeping him from drinking the acid should've woken Homer up to his doofusness if nothing else, and Grimes some sort of reward.

After that, it was Homer being right 100%. He tried to make amends for his obliviousness with Grimes via a dinner Grimes rudely rebuffed, AND Grimes in turn attempted to humiliate him on purpose far beyond any reasonable retribution amount (of which there was none). Grimes's life sucked, and Homer's rocked, but Homer has also proven to work for it when the chips were down and better himself while Grimes let himself become bitter and entitled.

Grimes was pragmatic in recognizing Homer had supernatural luck. If he was MORE pragmatic, he'd have recognized being Homer's friend would've only bought him the boons he so needed by the luck rubbing off on his life.

Both were wrong and right in their own ways. Grimes is right in that Homer is an incompetent idiot who endangers them all and is generally annoying but then that takes a backseat to petty jealousy and pathetic bullying attempts.
Homer didn't have anything to prove to Grimes and in doing so just made things worse.
Actually yknow what, Homer was never right but Grimes just managed to go from right to wronger than Homer and it killed him.

I never really liked this episode much at all. This could be the most controversial episode that the show has ever had, and it all depends on whether you like the humor or not. I personally couldn't stand the humor in this episode. It just wasn't funny to me watching Grimes lowered into his grave while everyone is laughing. Couldn't have Grimes just ended up in a mental institution or something like that? It's not so much Homer that bothers me in this episode (although he has a few annoying moments, like when he's in Grimes's office making noises) but instead it's how everyone else seems to act. I didn't like how Lenny and Carl choose to simply ignore him, and I'm not sure what they were trying for with Grimes being yelled at by Burns behind the closed doors, but it just seemed too sinister. At the center of the episode is Grimes himself, who really isn't a character that you can root for either, since he's just too obsessed with trying to convince everyone that Homer's an idiot. In the end you really have no one to root for. The episode is not a total loss however, I liked the subplot with Bart and the factory, but still I can't find this to be an enjoyable episode.

Nigga has bad luck, struggles to get the minimum, because life always shit on him.
Homer gets almost everything handed to him.
Nigga envy this, goes with a mental collapse and acts like homer(or at least his vision of him) then touches high voltage wiring because:"look at me I'm Homer Simpson", and dies.
Da end.

On the DVD commentary, Josh Weinstein said that he was surprised at how much dislike this episode got from the fans.

Homer wasn't really in any kind of wrong if I remember well. It's not fair Grimes had to work so hard, but having it all for nothing isn't really some kind of a vice of Homer's. It's not like Homer harmed anyone, on purpose. And if Homer harmed anyone indirectly, I don't think he has the mental stuff to be considered accountable.

>And if Homer harmed anyone indirectly, I don't think he has the mental stuff to be considered accountable.
Only in the context of this episode and beyond. Before that Homer has displayed clearly malicious moments before. Such as wishing for Flanders's business to fail miserably.

I never understood people complaining that Homer was too mean or stupid in this episode. First, Homer actually goes out of his way to be nice to Frank. What angers Frank is that Homer is so endlessly and easily happy, while Frank is very uptight and can never let loose, so he resents Homer's ability to not let things bother him. Homer also is not any more stupid than usual, I think that many take Homer's happy-go-lucky view of life and think he is just being stupid, but he is just blinded by his optimistic view of life.

To be fair, the universe will usually shit on him for it, which makes it a lot more palatable and tolerable.

If it's going to go dark, it should go all the way. If killing him was too much than the whole idea is flawed from the start.

>a normal person would not fit into the cartoonish fantasy world of The Simpsons
you_dont_say.jpg

>Being punished for saving Homer's life via keeping him from drinking the acid

Grimes got in trouble because he smacked the acid away against the wall like an idiot. Had he just taken it from Homer and placed it somewhere, he wouldn't have wasted perfectly good/expensive acid and gotten in trouble.

grimes was a fucking faggot. trying to blame his problems on other people, problems that he made for himself. Life isn't that fucking hard.

SNEED

All Grimes needed was for someone to explain to him that Burns keeps homer hired so he doesn't need to pay out the ass to pay someone a higher salary to actually do the job.

Frank just got a job and wanted immediate recognition. Homer had the job for 10 years and the joke of Burns still not knowing his name was still a thing.

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lets watch the episode in 5 easy parts

You could sympathise with Grimes for having lived a hard life at first, but he was a real asshole for trying to screw Homer over after he tried to show compassion.

Grimes seems to stupid to comprehend that the world doesn't work according to some fucking playbook and didn't attempt to make any changes in his life.

I hate Homer's Enemy for the same reasons the small amount of people out there do. I will never lower myself to liking an episode where people treat death as a joke. I genuinely felt sorry for Frank for the whole episode. Whether the episode was set up brilliantly, had a good subplot, and had some great gags, none of them matter when something like that happens. It's not dark, it's not funny, it's just stupid and no matter how much anyone wants or tries to convince me, I will never ever like this episode.

If Homer worked at any other place he would have been in the right but the fact is Frank was right and Homer should have been fired.

>wishing for something bad is equally bad as doing something bad yourself
would he had helped Flanders if he hadn't wished for it and still happening?
Answer, is no, he just helped it because he felt it was his fault, not helping someone might be morally worse than helping, but it's not as bad as doing the harm yourself, and a wish is just that, the universe doesn't hear you out.

For fuck sakes, it's just a chicken bone.

faggot

Frank is on the right,
Homer is on the left.

Also Grimes have the higher ground.

What Grimes didn't realise was that Homer also had to go through a lot of crap to get to where he is today: his mother left him when he was a child, he had a neglectful father who always put him down, there have been many occasions where he's had to sacrifice his own happiness for the sake of his family, he was constantly belittled by others for trying, and he only got the house in the first place because his father agreed to sell his own. The difference is that Homer, in spite of all of this, still maintains a friendly, optimistic personality and a lot of people are drawn to him as a result, whereas Grimes only became more bitter and isolated and eventually started feeling as if life owed him a favor simply because he worked hard.

Nah Homer is annoying in trying to befriend him. Frank is a tight ass, sure, but Homer starts touching and stealing his shit when he asked him not to, is being gross, then opens up on how lazy he is which offends Frank's work ethic. Frank only becomes an asshole once he starts looming to punish Homer.

Since when did they treat Frank's death as a joke? Homer not caring was a joke. The death itself was pretty intense.

CHANGE THE CHANNEL, MARGE

t. Mr. Enter

>I will never lower myself to liking an episode where people treat death as a joke
Gallows humor exists.

That user must be some easily triggered Tumblrina that lacks a decent sense of humor.

I'm going to say Grimes, Ignoring the acid thing Homer's nearly turned the town into Chernobyl on two separate occasions, he probably should have been fired long before that episode.

Why? Because Homer is a dumb shit who got a good job? Because Grimes can't understand that good things happen to lazy people and bad things happen to hard workers?

The whole "hard work" leads to success mentality is great when it pays off but when it doesn't it makes people bitter, lash out at their peers and commit suicide

Here, I will try to explain why I don't like this episode.

>they turn Homer into a cardboard cut out whose only purpose is to prove to us, the audience, that stupid people often get more in return then smart people who work a lot harder
>Homer has been dumb before, but never this completely oblivious or not showing a shred of anger towards anything
>even in classic era episodes, Homer has never been completely oblivious to something so blatantly obvious, which in this case, is Frank Grimes' anger and frustration towards him
>virtually every single character was oblivious to what was going on. Now that just isn't believable
>how are we supposed to think an episode has truly brilliant satire when it's so unbelievably convenient in every way and is set up so poorly.
>there could have been more regular Simpsons humor in the episode
>they could have characterized Mr. Burns more normally as opposed to the ogre that he was in this episode
>he's an evil guy, but there wasn't a single gag or joke in his scenes like there always have been before and it just made him seem charmless and cold, and contributed to the episode's overall charmless and cold tone
>they could have written Bart's sub plot with a bit more realism or at least did something productive with it
>among the only scenes in the show's history (discounting post-Season 9 stuff) that I would truly like to cut, and, well and truly bury in a landfill, the pointless and cold-hearted final scene where they laugh at his funeral
>that was just fucking wrong, dude

>"hard work" leads to success mentality
Which is complete bull

CHANGE THE CHANNEL, MARGE

Hi enter

Listen up kids. As comical as this is there is a very real life lesson to learn here. Most ppl don't care how smart you are. Few care how hard working you are. What really puts you ahead in the real world is likability and social connections. Think about it. How often in the real world do ppl get passed over for promotions for someone less than half as smart as them. The reason for this is simple. While he may be an incompetent supervisor and unsuited for his job he has ALSO been there the longest and has the most connections with people. So while he may not be able to do his job well he CAN motivate the ppl below him to work harder which is really what they want to begin with. And nobody likes someone who acts smarter than everyone all the time. What this guy fails to realize is its not despite Homer acting stupid that he has so much respect. ITS BECAUSE HE ACTS STUPID. Ironically in this world often the higher position you get the stupider you NEED TO BE. Obviously this it taken to extremes but its not too far from the truth. Hell look at the presidents (take your pick) 9/10 do you really think the man in the white house got there by being the "best man for the job?"

My little pony did make a bit of a joke of a death in one episode.
user is complaining that this simpsons episode did something a show for 4 year olds did.

In this episode the stupidity of Homer has a function: Really, the point of view is from outside, from Grimes and the behavior of Homer is like a kind of no-sympathy observation of the character and the consequences in the environment of it.

The funeral scene is bad but that's not because it was wrong or imoral or anything. The gag just wasn't funny.

Pretty much this. I wonder how badly the writing team was feeling around the time, this was a dark episode considering that Grimes just fucking goes crazy and dies in the end. Iirc, Groening was going through a divorce at the time.

Grimes life sucked and he hated how Homer was able to succeed at life better than he could for a fraction of the effort (or at least, less effort than he perceived) and killed himself in a stress induced psychotic break.

Homer was in the right though, why? Because Grimes whole mentality is basically /r9k/.
>"Why do all the girls go after jerks instead of nice guys like me, I HATE YOU CHAD! FUCKING ROASTIES! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"

If Grimes had taken a moment, calmed the fuck down, realized that Homer didn't mean any harm, and accept his attempts to bury the hatchet instead acting like he was entitled to a better life then he'd still be alive.

This episode unfortunately was a preview of what was coming in Season 9+ particularly with regard to Homer's characterization. Yeah, he was always a dumb guy but he was still supposed to have some level of empathy for others. As Matt Groening always said, "The show is supposed to bend, but not break reality." I remember reading some interview with one of the voice actors where they said around Seasons 5-6, the writers started making Homer go really out of character and asshole-tier, and Groening had to step in and stop them.

In Homer's Enemy, you can just replace Homer with Peter Griffin and not be able to tell the difference.

But it does give us "I saw the whole thing: First it started falling over, then it fell over."

Peter Griffin wouldn't have bothered setting up a dinner to make amends, nor would he give a shit about Grimes' bullshit in the first place.

Say what you will, but Homer is a much better person than Peter, if only because Homer hasn't done any of the fucked up shit we've seen Peter do, in or out of the cutaway gags.

Putting the Homer character stuff aside, I'm guessing I may the only one who thinks this episode is just very ordinary for its era in terms of everything else. It's relatively humorous (personally I really find the beginning the funniest) but I'm really confused as to what in this makes people regularly place with the series' best.

Like other Season 8 episodes there's an experimental angle to it. Here, I consider it to be mildly successful but not overly ingenious. A real world person in the Simpsons universe. Homer's lack of intelligence being exaggerated for the purposes of his foil. I get that. Now what? Like everything the Simpsons churned out in the first eight seasons, it's quite well-done with plenty going for it, but I still can't begin to understand where the hype is coming from. I don't see anything in this that puts it above and beyond like most others regarded as the Simpsons' crowning achievements.

And personally if I'm looking for dark humor, particularly in reference to the demise of one-shot characters, I'll go with Sherry Bobbins and the jet engine.

>In Homer's Enemy, you can just replace Homer with Peter Griffin and not be able to tell the difference.
In the funeral scene sure. Not in the rest of the episode.

It's just a commentary on how detached from reality The Simpsons became after so many seasons. Homer is no longer representative of middle America, he's a cartoon celebrity going on adventure no normal person will ever be able to go to and doing things no regular Joe could possibly do. Grimes is grating but it's no wonder at this point.

Yeah well, to anyone who had watched the show pre-Scully era, Homer's Enemy was very jarring and wrong-feeling indeed. In contrast to everything that happened in Season 9 and up, yeah, it's a classic episode but put in the context of the time in which it aired, it sure wasn't at all.

There are some people now who are trying to use Season 20 or whatever episodes to justify what Homer does here, but that excuse doesn't fly, I'm sorry. Homer's Enemy was the starting point for Homer to turn into a wacky, indestructible cartoon man like he does in Season 9 and up.

>he'd have recognized being Homer's friend would've only bought him the boons he so needed by the luck rubbing off on his life
Give one example of something good happening to Homer's friends because of Homer that doesn't get taken away by the end of the episode.

>"Why do all the girls go after jerks instead of nice guys like me, I HATE YOU CHAD! FUCKING ROASTIES! REEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"
Literally this. The moment you think you deserve everything, you deserve nothing imo.

He got everyone their dental plan back.

I'm sure that was Homer Goes To College, no?

My grandmother died last year, I felt very bad about it, but I'm not going around crying because of dead grandma jokes.

Homer was a jerk in HGTC, no doubt, but he was grossly/incompetently negligent in Homer's Enemy.

Nearly drinking a beaker full of acid? Take just about any episode that aired previous to HE and imagine Homer nearly drinking acid in the context of an older episode and Homer's braindead behavior in HE looks even more out of place. Even when Homer goes floor-spinning in Deep Space Homer, he still would have been too smart to drink the acid.

Homer. It's not his fault he's a sitcom star. He did what he could to befriend Grimes and do right by him, but Grimes rejected it of his own free will. His downfall was his own making.

Pretty sure Homer's exaggerated incompetence in that episode was done on purpose. It was meant to contrast Grimes' more realistic, bitter character.

Life is unfair and luck plays a huge role in success or failure. The American dream does exist, but it's not God. Its just a social system within an unfair and random world. This is a very simple and very obvious truth that most figure out by the end of their teens. Grimes was a grown ass man. Fuck'em.

>People unironically saying Homer

Frank really can't be blamed for blowing up on Homer when he's constantly made things miserable for him. Grimes saved his life for Christs sake, and Homer threw him under the bus immediately after. Homer is a dick.

You know, it would be easier to point the continuation for an example of Homer being exaggeratedly dumb or unconscious or malicious or whatever you hate about him in this episode. It's Homer accusing Grimes despite his help, and quite honestly my least favorite scene in the entire episode. I love it, I don't care for Homer doing always the wrong thing, playing with his pencils, colliding accidentally with his car, or even thinking proudly about himself and his life. But this was the first and arguably, the only instance of unbearable asshole behavior of Homer in this episode, I hated him and could easily go without this little, offensive detail.

Instead, you take the "Homer drinks acid" moment. "Oh, he's so dumb, so stupid he's going to kill himself by accidentally taking the wrong bottle". No. From all the scenes you could choose to describe how excessively is his stupidity shown in this episode, you had to take the one scene that 's hardly an epitome of his dumbness, but his usual absent-minded ways. This is not so different from the Land of Chocolate.

>Frank really can't be blamed for blowing up on Homer when he's constantly made things miserable for him.
He can when he decided to go out of his way to antagonize him, even when it was obvious that Homer was trying to make amends (even if some of his attempts weren't the most effective).

You can't stop life from shitting on you but you can choose how you handle it, and Grimes handled it in the worst possible way and died never learning his lesson, which is really the bigger tragedy here.

Oh goody, it's the generalization of "Because Homer did something stupid and/or crazy in the first 7.5 seasons, then his antics in Homer's Enemy are justified." I'm not going to give a serious reply to that one.

I've listed off many reasons why I didn't like this episode in this thread. if you want to call almost all of Homer's antics "classic Homer" in this fine, that's your prerogative, but don't expect me to agree simply because you're using Season 20 Homer as a comparison.

Homer was just trying to be nice and Grimey was just butthurt. Grimes is right about Homer, but his reaction was uncalled for.

>when he decided to go out of his way to antagonize him

Why wouldn't he? Homer is an awful human being, and does nothing but make things worse for him.
>b-but he was trying to be nice
And Grimes suffered for his attempts. Homer is about as much in the right as a stalker who constantly sends you unwanted flowers and poems because he "loves" you. He should've just left Grimes alone.

>Why wouldn't he?
Because there's generally better uses of your time than to humiliate a dude who invited you to his house in an attempt to make amends over a misunderstanding.

I mean, what did Homer legitimately do to earn Grimes' ire? Almost drink a vial of acid? Invite him to his home for dinner? Have a wife and children?

I mean, don't get me wrong, Grimes got dealt a bad hand by life but him acting bitter and entitled over it wasn't going to earn him sympathy points, nor is handling it in the worst possible way because you cannot accept that someone you view as "lesser" got more than you for less effort, which isn't even correct to say, because Homer busted his ass getting to where he is now, from being a safety inspector at the power plant to supporting his family.

at least homer didn't have a child he completely didn't care for.

In a zombie simpsons episode the tavern gang of Homer, Lenny, Moe, and Carl, won a lotto ticket. Wasn’t that bad an episode for zombies episode tbqh

Didn't they make fun of you guys because you've been saying the same thing for over 20 years

>but seeing as Homer's entire purpose is to be the idiot
a zombie-only fag? on Sup Forums? sneedposters are better than this

what a fucking loser

Fate was sadly right. There are a few rare people in this life that are incredibly lucky and some that are unlucky. I'm friendly with one of each.

This guy, decided he never wanted to do homework for school. Ever. Still manages to pass because he's good at school, but with D-
grades because he doesn't care. But then gets full ride scholarships to college because he's the 4th child in low income family. He spent 5 years fucking around college on free scholarships, never even completes a 2-year degree. Has cushy part time job whole while, basically gets to play videogames whole time. (Though I will say in the guy's favor, he took the job very seriously and never missed a delivery or service request.)

Eventually leaves college after 5 years, decides it wasn't for him. Through contact at cushy job, falls into his career job with lots of vertical and horizontal mobility, surprisingly good pay. Develops great work friends in laidback department. Spends every paycheck he earns on fun, until one coworker decides to get a house, so he copies him. They both get into the market when it's at the lowest, and now they own houses which have greatly multiplied in value. But the guy is still single, and though he's super sad that he is single, he realizes he just won't personally extend the effort to do the dating scene. Resigns himself to being single rest of his life. Then random old friend from junior high looks him up, and drives herself to his front door. He makes a move and two years later they are married.

Some people really do have all the luck.

My unlucky friend will literally make you believe in bad luck if you ever see him roll dice. But hey, he lived through the Iraq war, so maybe he's not totally without luck?

except that, being a cartoon, it worked, the wish made it so nobody notices flanders shop, unless homer, and ONLY homer, mentions it.

so yeah, as forced it might be, its homers fault for making the wish, and he understood he did wrong.

Grimmes was trying to hard to impress a bunch of idiots when he should have gone with the flow, and Homer wasn't handed everything He worked hard for years to get that house with the help from his dads lone, he planed his retirement pretty well, But then Maggie was born so he had to go back to work meaning he sucked up his pride and asked for his old job back (don't forget he's here forever) with out hope of promotion. Grimmes was bitter, hateful and jealous, this prevented him from making friends with anyone.

>WHY IT HAS TO BE SO MEAN SPIRITED IS NOT FAIR

No one was telling you to like it , OP was just asking what your take on it was.

Here he is saving Lenny's life.

Homer was in the right.

>Homer's Enemy is 20 years old

Oh please, while it is true eggs contain cholesterol, it has not yet been proven to conclusively raise the level of serum cholesterol in the human bloodstream

>I mean, what did Homer legitimately do to earn Grimes' ire?
Eat his lunch
Steal his shit
Blame him for his own failures
Show him just how little his values mattered

>I mean, don't get me wrong, Grimes got dealt a bad hand by life but him acting bitter and entitled over it wasn't going to earn him sympathy points
He didn't want sympathy points.

>you cannot accept that someone you view as "lesser" got more than you for less effort, which isn't even correct to say, because Homer busted his ass getting to where he is now
Homer sleeps on the job nearly every day.

Face it, Grimes was completely justified in his outburst. Whatever Homer's intentions were, he only made things worse for Frank and actions trump intentions. You'd be a bit pissed too if you'd've been assaulted by rabid hounds and were late to work only to have the guy who steals your lunch at work invite you over to his house and humblebrag about his perfect life.

ITT: Postmodernism in "The Simpsons"

Well Grimes liked hookers and his offspring tried killing Homer. At least Homer was there to raise his children

so it's basically falling down

So one of those egg council creeps got to you too, huh?

No Homer it isn't like that!

...