Why didn’t people understand it?

Why didn’t people understand it?

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We understood it, and it was shit, now fuck off back to

It didn't have quips.

If Superman and Batman were dancing during the Martha scene, the movie would be much better received.

People understood it just fine. Contrary to what Snyderfags think it really isn't very deep or complex.......it was just terrible.

Complaining about other movies doesn't make your shit movie good, Snyder.

fpbp

BvS was the worst kind of stupid movie.

It was a stupid movie that thought it was deep.

Here's the actual case. There's plenty of symbolism and it's very good and it's all there and everybody typically manages to pick up on it. But the film's a poorly edited trainwreck.

Lets just end the thread now before that faggot shows up with his book report

Those who like it? I don't know why they don't understand that it was shit.

MARTHA

The movie came out like 2 decades too early.

Remember when the first time they showed a train in a movie theater, people were running out because they couldnt grasp the concept of kino. Basically the same shit happened with BvS now.

People understood it. It's not hard to understand a shit film.

...

JL is going to be a fucking train wreck

Oh cool, Bradley got his normal eye back.

Why don't we auto-ban whoever uses the word kino? The mods need to start doing their jobs.

Because audiences were expecting it to be like a MCU movie, so they turned their brains off when they went to watch it.

...

It doesn't explain a single fucking thing going on. That's why.
Movies shouldn't try to be mysterious with its own plot. You can't just suddenly throw a scene of Batman having a vision of an apocalypse, then flash suddenly yelling about Lois, then reveal it to be a dream, and then making sure it never gets brought up again, and expect everyone to know what the fuck that was.

It's just not a very good movie. Man of Steel is passable, Suicide Squad is fun if you view it like it's a Cannon film, Wonder Woman is the first good film in the DCEU.

Batman v. Superman was like a wading pool that's been painted dark. It may look like it's deep, but if you dive in, you'll shatter your spine.

It's a fucking comic book movie. It's not that deep, especially when Supes, Lex and Batman don't even engage with each other ideologically.

9 out of 10 capeshit books I read are DC and even I hated the movie.

because they don't know jack shit about comics
that said, the movie was mediocre at best

Hah, that's actually a great analogy.

They did, and they didn't particularly like Batman being turned into an adult shitposter on an autistic tantrum.

I mean aside from

>Batman trying to gun down his enemies
>Batman trying to gas his enemies
>Batman gassing his enemies with kryptonite laced gas
>Batman takes out his temper on a defenceless man because angst

which off the bat (heh) sits poorly on the tongue, the fact that Batman is so enraged by Superman is fucking atrocious writing.

Yes of course Batman would turn on someone because their enemies kept causing collateral damage wherever they go. I mean, it's not like that's half of why he's usually tempted to kill the Joker?

And no, why should Batman respect someone who tried to defend himself publically? I mean, it's not like Batman has to do that all the time on a much smaller scale.

And accepting help from a rich evil dude? I mean, it's not like Bruce Wayne's job is to find rich evil dudes for Batman to go shake up. And why would he empathise with a dude who is constantly abused by rich dudes with nothing better to do than fuck up the world?

>inb4 lex would improve the world, superman has died on countless occasions and lexy hasn't done shit in any of those time periods

Finally, why the fuck does Batman get so pissy that Supes keeps sparing him? What, is that hero ethic copyrighted by Wayne Enterprises? Is the foreign alien not respecting your intellectual property, like some kind of homebrew China Snapple buyphone?

And here's another thing. Just because something has symbolism, doesn't make it entertaining, or even insightful. If the parts of society that characters are meant to represent don't equate to a coherent, or even entertaining, metaphor, your story has failed.

I mean, what fucking moral am I going to get from BvS? If your foster child gets raped by a clown, don't take your rage out on immigrants? Yeah thanks man, go take your bullshit moral to where they need it, like Maine.

fucking lol

it was a mediocre movie. it wasnt terrible by anymeans, but a batman vs superman movie should have been nothing but excellent.

In two sentences or less, please clearly articulate Lex's motives and goals, then support this position with direct evidence from the film.

he was angry at his daddy and god, and he projected all of that on superman. which is why he did all the dumb shit to superman.
it was still a shit movie, but it was clearly stated he had issues with powerful male authority figures

>If Superman and Batman were dancing during the Martha scene, the movie would be much better received.

You are right, unironically, literally people would love that, two dancing fools while the moment happen. Truly we can see how autistic as they say the society is.

Ah another special snowflake, with taste and cognitive abilities far beyond everyone else. He could be doing any number of things befitting his intellect and deep understanding, but chooses to Grace us with his gifts on 4 Chan.

He wanted to prove to himself and to the world that Superman was not the messianic figure they made him out to be, but rather an alien that, through his undeserved power, belittled his own achievements and that of all humanity ("They need to see you for the fraud that you are. The blood on your hands" and "The bittersweet pain of existence is knowledge without power, because that is paradoxical"). Since his and Batman's views on Superman aligned relatively well, he used Batman as a pawn to either destroy Superman ("If God is all-good, then he cannot be all-powerful") or be destroyed by him ("If God is all-powerful, then he cannot be all-good").

Does DCEU Superman even have an ideology?

What is the average motherfucker supposed to do with the Knightmare sequence or the Flash timetravel stuff? Lex and Bats were 100% right in that Supes was a ticking time bomb. Bats was a fucking retard throughout the entire film.

>("If God is all-good, then he cannot be all-powerful") or be destroyed by him ("If God is all-powerful, then he cannot be all-good").
I think the reason this falls so flat for people is that this Superman is neither of those things as was established by the first movie. He's just kinda strong and mostly okay.
So it's like we're waiting for the other characters to get a point we've already had beaten over our heads.

Yes, but understand that the characters in the movie don't get to live with Superman through his childhood and all his experiences and his ideology like the audience does. It's demonstrated rather well throughout the movie that most people on Earth see Superman as a divine figure of some sort, a view that Superman hates but can do nothing to assuage.

Because they were looking too hard for it to be deep and good and they didn't understand it was just a shit movie from a shit director.

And it was boring as hell. All the characters sucked. I thought they were going to take an opportunity to address all the deaths or make Superman likeable. Like a scene with him at the graveyard or something.

Would have worked better as a tv mini series.
Would have REALLY worked better if we'd got the Wondy, Flash, and Batman movies after MoS and before BvS. That way we know the characters and get proper hype to see them face off and join up and mourn theur death. But in WB's attempt to not be Marvel lite, they shot their biggest loads too quickly. Now the only things that comes with each announcement and trailer are worrying from most, and cautious anticipation from few fans.

It actually sucks being a DC fan but BvS is the only film I regret ever seeing. It was too early.

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>unironically
>literally
>autistic
You've got a flimsy grasp of basic vernacular, bud

ww is irrelevant user

>5deep2me mang!!!!111

We understood it just fine. That's the problem.

They went in with the wrong expectations.

But mostly... well, you can't expect people to sit through three hours of something that's dark, bleak and somewhat complicated. Same thing happened to the new Blade Runner (and arguably also the old Blade Runner, back in the days) and that one actually had critics on its side.

Most people can't turn off their brains for a couple of hours.

FPBP

>they shot their biggest loads too quickly

To wit: The movie included the death of Superman. The DCEU had one shot at nailing that moment and making it matter - and it landed with a wet squelch because everyone knew Superman was going to come back for "Justice League". (Well, that, and people already knew it was never going to last, what with comic book movies being both an extension of the comics and infinitely reboot-/remake-able.) But even if WB could have guaranteed the death of Superman lasting longer than a one- or two-movie gap, the moment still would have sucked because the version of Superman that died in BvS was a version about which no one gave a shit.

>Same thing happened to the new Blade Runner (and arguably also the old Blade Runner, back in the days) and that one actually had critics on its side.

And it helped that is was an actual good movie with interesting things to say. K's arc of self-actualisation coming from establishing actual relationships instead of being a pre-destined Chosen One is a way more compelling idea then any of Snyder's nonsensical mythological term paper bullshit.

I cared way more about Luv and K's fight on the beach then any of the endless, terrible fight scenes in Dawn of Marthas, and it's literally just two autistic weirdos trying to drown each other for ten minutes.

Unironically this.

To be fair, you have to have a very high IQ to understand Batman vs Superman. The action is extremely subtle, and without a solid grasp of theoretical physics most of the moves will go over a typical viewer’s head. There’s also Zack’s nihilistic outlook, which is deftly woven into his characterization- his personal philosophy draws heavily from Narodnaya Volya literature, for instance. The fans understand this stuff; they have the intellectual capacity to truly appreciate the depths of these jokes, to realize that they’re not just funny- they say something deep about LIFE. As a consequence people who dislike BVS truly ARE idiots- of course they wouldn’t appreciate, for instance, the motives in Superman’s existential catchphrase “Don't let them kill Martha,” which itself is a cryptic reference to Turgenev’s Russian epic Fathers and Sons. I’m smirking right now just imagining one of those addlepated simpletons scratching their heads in confusion as Zack Snyder’s genius wit unfolds itself on their television screens. What fools.. how I pity them

this fits too fucking well

This is like 75% of BvS' popular reviews on Letterboxd.

Oh holy shit, everybody understood it. Everybody knew what it was trying to do. It just wasn't good at it, jesus fuck. You're one of those people who think that the Martha scene was 2deep for the pleb masses and not just poorly executed aren't you?

I like both quite a bit but yes, Blade Runner 2049 is a more well realized movie and I'd rate it higher too.

But I wouln't say that there was nothing to BvS, it had a lot to say, even if it didn't always articulate it well. And it was at its worst when it made concessions to the genres conventions.

Is this a new copypasta?

youtube.com/watch?v=lMss1CeHOiM

You can if the bleakness has substance. Blade Runner 2049 was a really bleak film, but I watched it because I fucking liked K, I found his character sympathetic, and because of that his struggles and tribulations felt like they had actual weight behind them, and I wanted him to succeed in his goals.

Batman v. Superman is just thoroughly dark and cynical to the point of being overwrought and mean-spirited (Nothing screams Superman like Jimmy Olsen getting shot in the fucking face in the first five minutes), the plot is falls apart the moment you give it so much as a brief gander, and the two protagonists are powerhungry psychopaths who's conflict is essentially just a glorified dick-measuring contest.

fpbp

>But I wouln't say that there was nothing to BvS, it had a lot to say, even if it didn't always articulate it well

It was all concept and no follow-through.

Allusions to mythological history and post-9/11 political [policy aren't enough, you have to do something with it. It's a bunch of vague tabs at political relevancy and grand thematic ideas, but Snyder has no idea how to go anywhere with any of it. Part of the reason that the MARTHA scene is so fucking terrible is Snyder and Terri seem to think that's some sort of grand cap on the film and the last half-hour can just be action scenes and more Excalibur imagery.

And even if you want to ignore that, if you want a movie that's pure theme and emotion directed by an auteurist lunatic who loves the smell of his own farts, MOTHER! was way better then BvS. That movie dropped the pretence of plot and made the movie pure textural theme while also crafting a compelling movie at the same time.

Aww yeah, FPBP.

>while also crafting a compelling movie at the same time

Mother! wasn't compelling though, it was pure shit. Still better than BvS, but also utterly terrible.

>Yes, but understand that the characters in the movie don't get to live with Superman through his childhood and all his experiences and his ideology like the audience does
Yeah but that's not relevant.
Yes, we're supposed to symphatize with Clark as a human because we see his upbringing (that many of us don't is pretty telling as to the effectiveness of the movie at getting us to do this) but if we look at JUST the actions that Clark does when going public as Superman, even those are enough to see he's not all perfect or all powerful.
Moreover, I don't agree that we get the sense that the majority of people see Superman as a divine figure; that's just what's given focus but is not indicated to be the majority. And I certainly think he could've done stuff to assuage it. Austerity is the opposite way to handle that kind of reaction, but that's what the writers had him double down on.

Being dark and bleak was never the problem. As for complicated, it's not; the story is simple but badly told.

Also, it's mainly boring, because it's told badly. Because none of the characters are really engaging, you see them doing their thing but you're not wih them. And the movie tries so much to be big that it felt silly or empty at times.

What amazes me is that they managed to make people NOT CARE about Superman dying. In a major movie. Nobody cared. Nobody gave a damn. It meant nothing at the time. It evoked no emotional response at the time. And despite what WB want people to believe, it *still* doesn't now. Whether it was because they damn well knew he'd be back in the very next one, or because his characterization to that point had been so UTTERLY unsympathetic and mismanaged, they managed to make audiences worldwide NOT CARE ABOUT SUPERMAN DYING IN LIVE ACTION.

It may only be one issue with the movie (and the DCEU in general to this point), but that, RIGHT THERE, tells me that the people who were making these things have NO IDEA what they're doing. You can shovel all the "symbolism" and "big ideas" you want all over that, but it's just covering up rusting barrels full of toxic waste with bullshit. One smell might cover another, especially if you're not paying attention, but it's all still poisoned shit.

And now, NOW that they've figured out "oh shit, we've fucked up SUPERMAN of all characters!" they're trying to gaslight everyone into thinking "hey, we RESPECT Superman and what he means, really we do! We're ALL ABOUT Superman representing hope and altruism! We always were! You just didn't see it, you proletarian imbeciles!" They're trying to make audiences believe that they're not basically trying to re-write their own memories of how this version of Superman was presented to make it LOOK like he really was this symbol of hope that inspired everybody in their little shared continuity.

Bullshit. I understand Snyder's gone through a pretty big family tragedy, and I have sympathy for that, but the man misunderstood SUPERMAN from top to bottom, even with 80+ years of stories and Elseworlds material to draw on. That's not directorial genius, that's the act of an ambulatory vegetable.

>but the man misunderstood SUPERMAN from top to bottom

He turned Watchmen from a story about incredibly flawed human beings and a frustrated godling to a SUPER BADASS masturbatory love letter to Rorschach and Dr Manhattan's Mars palace. He's utterly incapable of exploring characters that aren't a superficial level of "cool." Everything has to go through his teenage boy aesthetic before it can be engaged with.

It's why he dropped Clark almost entirely. He can't make Clark Kent "cool" so he has to be mostly scrubbed. A superhero having actual friends isn't "cool" so now Clark seemingly hates his job and does nothing bu argue with his boss. He turned Luthor into an absurd dork stereotype right out of Revenge of the Nerds, because since he isn't "cool" he has to be an effeminate squealing nerd.

I have no idea where this idea of Snyder the great crafter of amazing narrative and theme came from. He's Bay with pretensions to the art-house.

How can you simplify it like this and not hear yourself sounding like a total moron? You act as if anger doesnt blind or potentially give way to a lack of rationality or in lexs case an adoption of insanity. Every single thing that happens to bruce makes him build up his defensive wall even higher. Lex knows this obviously. Superman sparing him would clearly make him feel inferior because the thing bruce is after is superiority. Its like if youre trying to beat someone at something theyre good at to prove yourself and they keep letting you win. I feel like im missing your points because these problems you have all seem to have very fucking simple and obvious answers. The metaphor about fear is coherent. It doesnt have to be entertaining at least not in the way i figure you mean it.
>If your foster child gets raped by a clown, don't take your rage out on immigrants
Youre a joke. The moral is be rational and reflect upon yourself. Dont let ego control you. You cant be superman but you can try. Be bruce by the end and not lex.

>He wanted to prove to himself and to the world that Superman was not the messianic figure they made him out to be, but rather an alien that, through his undeserved power, belittled his own achievements and that of all humanity

This is undermined by the upcoming plot of Lex summoning a different alien god to come to Earth and rule humanity.

>do you meme? You will.

a thread died for this

but hey you got your answer

It's undermined before that because a messianic figure doesn't leave a five block crater or death memorials in his wake.

>>>/youtubecomments/

It'll be loved later on. The only question is whether normalfags or Sup Forums will turn first.

The amount of shitposting replies this post recieved is embarassing.

>It'll be loved later on. The only question is whether normalfags or Sup Forums will turn first.
You based this on what?

See you people say you understand it but then you actually try to engage with what happened in the movie you get things flat out wrong.

You have people like here who can't even understand that the dream is meant to be visual representation of Batman's paranoid fears--but surprise! It might not be a paranoid fear at all! It might be an actual possible future! AND he doesn't understand how Flash telling Batman that "Lois is the key" directly ties into Batman listening to Lois in the Martha scene.


or this guy who says shit like
>And accepting help from a rich evil dude? I mean, it's not like Bruce Wayne's job is to find rich evil dudes for Batman to go shake up.

When its made painfully clear that no on views Lex as evil yet in this universe.

Or this guy who thinks Lex summoned Darkseid, when, again, its made PAINFULLY clear that he is WARNING us about Darkseid and that the Steppenwolf thing was a historic hologram.

Or this guy who thinks characters should have the same knowledge, in universe, that we have as an audience.

Or this guy who actually thinks Lex and Bats were right.

Or this guy who claims the plot falls apart without actually trying to engage with it.

So you guys can claim you understood all you want, but its pretty clear you didnt.

nah, this guy is rightthe daddy thing was just icing on the cake

>Or this guy (You) who thinks characters should have the same knowledge, in universe, that we have as an audience.
People in audience don't know about the death toll from the kryptonian invasion? *Bruce Wayne* doesn't know that Kryptonians are so powerful it's scary and there's no reason to trust them fully?

*in unvierse

> but if we look at JUST the actions that Clark does when going public as Superman, even those are enough to see he's not all perfect or all powerful.

But that isn't true? He destroyed a terraforming machine, defeated an army of kryptonians, and saves tons of people on the daily. As far as the public is concerned, there is no upper limit to his strenght/meats/divine powers yet. He has been able to tackle everything that has been thrown at him. That is kind of the point of his death, is that it shows the whole world that he WAS mortal and DID have a limit.


>Moreover, I don't agree that we get the sense that the majority of people see Superman as a divine figure; that's just what's given focus but is not indicated to be the majorit

Again, where the fuck are you getting this from. Literally everyone in the movie that isnt Lois treats him either as an alien menace threat or a divine boon to the world. Like every single time we see the public react/respond to Superman its one of those things. The two crowds outside the senate building, the talking head montage, how everyone treated him like a god in the scenes of him saving people from disasters. And both Lex and Bats only ever talk about him in the same terms, until he humanizes himself in Batman's eyes. Its like you didnt even watch the movie.

>And I certainly think he could've done stuff to assuage it.

And he tries to, and Lex blows up the Senate because of it. Also he did it in the beginning of MoS when the very first thing he did was be interviewed and layout his mission statement to the people. On top of that its mentioned that the Daily Planet keeps pumping out good press for him. You really dont understand how public opinion works.

what are you even saying? How does any of that matter?

Reminder that when Man of Steel was being advertised everyone was legitimately, unironically hyped for a classic Superman movie, the world was ready to believe in Superman again, and if Zack Snyder had delivered that DC movies would be booming. But instead he went for pointless, brainless drama and darkness in a thoughtless imitation of Nolanbats for the shekels, which directly led us to the shithole we're in now. And when given the reins a second time he doubled down on his mistakes and made Superman a non-character in a movie he headlined, yet expected us to believe he was the Superman we loved despite not having any of the spirit, the deeds, or even the fucking dialogue he should have. It was just a paranoid madman pretending to be MillerBats being manipulated by an evil fusion of Steve Jobs, Donald Trump and the kid from Zombieland to start shit with a tragically mute dumbass from space.

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>tfw you can't form a response so instead you use shitty memes

you're braindead

>It'll be loved later on.
Cult classics of high-profile movies don't happen in the modern internet age. Maybe if it came out 10 years ago

Hyperbole

>and that the Steppenwolf thing was a historic hologram.
A thing most people wouldn't know about since that was originally posted on Youtube.

Difference is people who actually did go see BR 2049 actually liked it

>It'll be loved later on. The only question is whether normalfags or Sup Forums will turn first.
I love this argument so much.

Like, people are just banking on public opinion of the movie doing a 180 despite no evidence towards the contrary. It's a crapshoot.

I know you're running on autopilot and just repeating the same memes you've always been using, so let me explain it to you.
An user claims that Lex's motivation is to show that Superman can't be all good or all powerful, as those are mutally exclusive.
I and others are arguing this doesn't work even in universe, because Superman doesn't have the near universally high approval rating necessary to make Lex stand out as being a sole dissenter, and Superman's first public foray was incredibly pyrrhic, to the point that you have to actively ignore the thousands that died in his first act of "heroism" to even begin to argue that Superman, or anyone defending him, is even remotely justified in him claiming or being all a good OR all powerful.
This is compounded by the meta of audience not being won over by this "realstici flawed" version.
And since I know that's too long for you to read or understand, here's the tl;dr version for you to strawmand and move the goalposts on:
Superman's too big a fuck up in this universe for "God can't be all powerful and all good" to fly and Lex just has to look out his window to know that. Superman is neither."

>Reminder that when Man of Steel was being advertised everyone was legitimately, unironically hyped for a classic Superman movie
I'm rather proud to say that I was suspicious from the first promotional image of him scowling out at the view next to that bank vault.
Your first look at Superman shouldn't be a fucking Kubrick Stare.

I agree with you about everything except steppenwolf being a historic hologram. I agree that lex is simply a herald for the coming of apokalips' armies. I think lex was communicating with steppenwolf via hologram though. Steppenwolf reacts when the soldiers come in and the scene itself is called communion. I really hope lex was not cut from JL as reported

>who can't even understand that the dream is meant to be visual representation
Why do you immediately assume that the reason he complains is because he didn't understand it ?
He is complaining about the way the scene is paced and how it craps imagery on the viewer's eyes without explaining what it is or even bringing it up again. The first time I watched his shitty Knightmare I understood exactly what it was and I laughed at how desperately the DCEU was trying to rush the Darkseid conflict into this universe via trailer bait, and ripping off the Injustice set-up to boot.
It literally brings the movie to a screeching halt so they can promote you the next one in a way that was somehow more forced and stupid than anything Marvel did (and half the runtime of the MCU is dedicated to shilling the next product) and just have Batman shoot Parademons in a trenchcoat. It's like a commercial break for an action figure.

You give yourselves way too much credit for believing that just because you made sense of this trainwreck of a movie it immediately means that it's ackshually good.

Im a different user. Lex has to prove to himself more than anyone the good/powerful idea as being true. His ego doesnt leave room for any doubt surrounding the possibility of being wrong. He will ignore it or if its important enough to him he will solidify the belief in his own mind

But still fact

They sucked at telling the story. the dark knight returns animated movie has a better telling of this story.

Martha why did you say Martha....shit way of stopping a fight.

You misunderstand the definition of hyperbole

Both bvs and dkr show bruce having ptsd

I never really understood why people have a problem with all the dead people. Superman had to deal with a planetwrecking weapon and another kryptonian who was about as strong plus being a genetically engineered soldier with decades of combat experience. Are people really pissed off because superman wasn't able to casually fix the whole thing with no casualties? Cause that would be nonsensical.