Howcome America doesn't like comics?

Howcome America doesn't like comics?

There's all these comic book-based characters making billions of dollars in theaters and in video games and selling toys... but comics themselves are chump change in comparison.

Why's that?

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There was a thread on it a few days but the reasons tended to group as so;

It's more socially acceptable to be seen reading manga as an adult when on the train or on a break at work. This is since there's more variety in types of manga as opposed to the main thing being, in theory, child-focused markets. There's less cultural stigma, although I guess there might be if you read kid's manga as an adult, but I don't know.

It's weekly editions rather than monthly so you get more content rather than possibly just forgetting about it. Granted, this is because the writers/artists have a shittier time than in the West, but that's partly why. There's also greater reader feedback and pressure to follow it, if your manga falls in the ratings you'll know quickly and be able/forced to respond quickly. In the West, you can have sales decline or old readers complain and possibly get away with it.

Lastly, you get more consistency. DC/Marvel will have new writers, new artists, and endless re-boots depending on the feeling of who's running what. You get that in manga with editors, but it's more before the plot happens rather than pretending it didn't happen or changing it. In manga, most of the time, you get a mangaka and assistants but otherwise it's the same guy planning the plot and cast. If you are enjoying either or both of them, you're not going to see much change, while comics will have Events and staff changes that lead to the plot being changed or characters being shifted around.

One problem that comic fans may say exists is poor treatment of mangaka and that there's less risks taken in Japan while in the US you can make the story darker, re-imagine the characters in cool new ways, introduce diversity or scrap really shit ideas even after they've happened, or some mixture of the above.

Americans don't/can't read.

Because it's easier and cheaper to just watch Captain America for 2 hours on the big screen than driving to an LCS every month to pick up a comic book.

>I guess there might be if you read kid's manga as an adult, but I don't know.
Literally only if you read the shitty ones. Kids make up less than 40% of One Piece's readers. It's like Superman back in the day, well liked children's material was seen as "for ALL the family" instead of for keeping the kids busy.

This is the main issue, our education is horrific and we've been socially and commercially engineered to not read. The internet started a minor bounce back, but it's regressing all over again.

This doesn't actually answer the question, which poses comics against their adaptations. Plus, your points in favor of manga aren't universally recognized by normies, so they're virtually moot.

>Why's that?
Where do you start reading about the character you care about? Which run or which universe? There are so many divergent timelines and many of the stories are written by dozens of writers over the years that finding the story you want to read about is going to be a challenge. A lot of people don't want to try and weave through that tangle.

>en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Category:Storylines_in_comics

>movies
>cost maybe $9 (depending on where you live)
>almost entirely self-contained
>2 hours of entertainment
>easily accessible

>comics
>costs range from $3 to $10
>almost always part of a grander story
>5/10 minutes of entertainment (more including ads)
>hard to get into

I blame comic shops and the distribution model.

Consider:
>Watch Iron-Man movie
>Decide to start reading Iron-Man comics
>Go to local LCS to find Iron-Man comics
>See a huge wall of trades to choose from
>The clerk tries to be helpful, but the only story he can recommend is Demon in a Bottle, which isn't a good jumping-on point
>He tells you that Marvel had a recent relaunch called Legacy, which was intended as a jumping-on point for new readers
>But it doesn't have Tony Stark in it, it has a little black girl called Riri as the protagonist. Tony's been gone for 2 years and might be coming back soon, but we're not sure
>Give up and ask what's the easiest way to get in to DC instead
>Go dead inside as the guy starts talking about 'retcons', 'Crisis', 'reboots', and 'hypercontinuity'
>Just decide to keep it to the movies and maybe the cartoons instead. They're easier to wrap my head around

I don't really like floppies because I feel like you get too little content too infrequently. Also I think the price point is a bit high.

Trades are better, but they're also pretty expensive and they often come out after I've moved on to other things.

Yessir!
Americans hate to read.
They also don't fully appreciate art

That's only true for an overexposed minority of comics.

This.

This.

Hell, many movie chains offer $5 days. For that same $5, you are guaranteed to get no more than a probably-not-good 15 minute timewaster -- which might even cover the same characters as the longer, more detailed, more crafted $5 movie.

This also needs to be stated: the large majority of industries live and die by quality and delivery. If you sell crappy products and annoy your customers with your delivery methods, you tend to die out.

Comics are one of the very few industries immune to that guideline. Instead, they can get away with being awful solely because of fanboys.

Used to be into comics as a kid and youth, but my interest kinda dwindled down over time, because I grew tired of the feeling of never getting the whole picture. Each issue I read of something would have tons of those little blurbs in a panel saying "see #176 of some other series you haven't collected yet" or somesuch. Then there's side stories, limited runs, reboots, different continuities or even new artists and writers coming in and changing things. It became a hassle to follow and collect.

Movie series like the Nolan trilogy or the MCU are fewer in number and easier to follow. There's not as much investment necessary to track everything down and get the whole picture, same for the investment necessary, both in time and money. Same for games like the Arkham series. It's simply easier to get an overview of what's good and what isn't and then get through it within a limited time span.

Another thing, I recently tried my hand at some Star Wars comics again and chose to follow a series called Doctor Aphra. I started with issue 1 and after getting accustomed to her being a spin off character from the old Vader comic line, I dove in. Lo and behold, after reaching issue 7, the cover tells me "Part 3 of 5 of The Screaming Citadel", with Doctor Aphra being in the middle of some quest with Luke Skywalker. The Fuck? I started researching what The Screaming Citadel plotline is about and came to this:

Part 1: The Screaming Citadel, Part I (Standalone)
Part 2: Star Wars 31: The Screaming Citadel
Part 3: Doctor Aphra 7: The Screaming Citadel
Part 4: Star Wars 32: The Screaming Citadel
Part 5: Doctor Aphra 8: The Screaming Citadel

The goddamn storyline was fragmented across a standalone issue and alternating issues of 2 separate comic lines. And then people wonder why interest in comics is waning compared to movies.

Too many ads, too expensive. Thats why i dont buy new ones. I also hate digital art the way it is right now, i prefer the 80s style. I only buy dollar bin retro comics.

>Howcome America doesn't like comics?

Lack of access. Price increases since the seventies along with a gradual move into direct market only sales have made comics legitimately hard to find unless you go to a dedicated store or buy collected editions, so the casual market that used to buy from spinner racks and newsstands just no longer exists.

americans can't read.

Manga is cheaper, has more pages, and is relatively has newer characters.

Too much of a cluster fuck to follow if you are not invested in the continuity

comics in the USA got big as a phenomenom market directly to kids. Americans like to label everything and the idea of "comics are for kids" has stuck in their minds since then.

The kid demographic is marked by a constant necessity for the shiniest toy they can get. By the late 80s the kid demographic moved from comics to games and the market has been shrinking ever since.

The adult demographic has gotten bigger, but it still nothing compared to what we lost when kids stopped reading comics.

that doesn't answer op's question at all. And if you want to talk about other markets, in france single volumes of asterix and obelix have over a million sales each.

This is the main reason. If kids could see comics at the grocery store again the big two would make big bucks.

>Socially acceptable to be reading manga.

This example is entirely predicated on the store clerk being a poor salesman.

what makes you think kids want to read comics?

Came here to say this. Plus price increases, who but a die-hard is going to buy a 28-page magazine for five dollars?

>what makes you think kids want to read comics?

We had comics at the grocery stores when I was a kid and I wanted to read them.

I've been getting really bored out of Marvel and DC in this decade though. They retconned and rebooted everything so much, that there are only a handful of characters that bear a resemblance to the comics I grew up with. Spidey is still more or less the same character, and so are the Green Lanterns (mostly...).

>when I was a kid
Here's your problem.

the 6-12 demographic has changed almost completely in the last 20 years. What kids consume now is videos on their cellphone and video games on their pc.

1. Americans don't read
2. Current big two comics aren't particularly good and/or accessible

Because it involves reading. I haven't read an actual book in like 5 or 6 years. I have so many books I want to read, but I don't want to do the reading part because fuck reading.

>It's more socially acceptable to be seen reading manga as an adult when on the train or on a break at work. This is since there's more variety in types of manga as opposed to the main thing being, in theory, child-focused markets. There's less cultural stigma, although I guess there might be if you read kid's manga as an adult, but I don't know.

[citation needed]

Reading 5 sentences a page is not reading. People do more reading on Facebook then they do from a comic.

We need more one shot comics and 2 issue story arcs. And they need to sell those in supermarkets and newstands. And not just for casuals, I'd be a great opportunity to give more obscure characters some exposure without having to commit to a monthly title

>doesn't read imagery
Feel bad for you, son.

>Reading 5 sentences a page is not reading.

That's the excuse non-readers make

Comic companies are shitty.

Comics are supposed to be fun disposable entertainment. They're supposed to be 99 cents and fun and yellow and pulpy and silly and passed around friends. They're not supposed to be $3.99 with an ad opposite every page and digital and decompressed and a shittier version of Hollywood movies.

Look at the type of entertainment you see on the internet. Bright, fun and disposable. That's what comics used to be. Now comics are only for comic nerds and the second you become a niche industry your days are numbered.

>It's more socially acceptable to be seen reading manga as an adult when on the train or on a break at work.
What world do you live in?

>reading modern day "decompressed" comics.

Fucker Claremont puts like 5 sentences in one fucking thought bubble about how Scott can't take off his glasses.

He meant "in Japan".

American comic companies don't make comics people want to read. They either write about superheroes that nobody cares about or Image comics that feel less like comic books and more like pitches to film and TV studios.

manga =/= comics

Not being able to pick them up at a grocery store doesn't help. When I was a lid in the UK I would get my Sonic Comic, Simpson comic and Beano at the Supermarket. A cheap 2000AD style anthology book where Batman is the main strip like Dredd should be given a try but those arseholes at Diamond would stop it

Motherfucker it's WAY less acceptable to be reading manga in public. With comics they'll think you're a loser, but with manga normalfags are going to assume you're reading hentai.

Also
>reading comics in public
>not bringjng them directly home and immediately bagging and boarding them once they've been read

If the Star Wars comics want a crossover just make it a mini and put an add saying its coming in the back of the other books. Then start the next issue saying "this takes place after such and such"

I don't treat comic adaptation's that seriously though. Even if they say its canon we all know it isn't

Why do companies like Lego and Nestlé even advertise in comics? The markets tiny. Seems like a waste of money

It depends on how much adspace in a comic costs.

The market for chocolate candy bars is tiny?

Here's what it would take for comics to be accessible to today's generation:

>You get a number of books for probably $15 a month in a lootcrate-esque package
>You'd have, for instance, "The Batman Box" that contains Batman, Detective, and a few other Bat-books, especially ones that don't sell otherwise. And you'd get enough comics that it would technically be discounted, plus a little pin or figurine or something
>Technically a better deal but LCS regulars won't go for it because it's tedious to order all the books, however collectors will order them because of the pin/figurine. But collectors will still come in obviously, so LCS's won't lose much business
>Do this for every character that's applicable, and then some like "The Antihero Package", which would have Deathstroke, Red Hood and the Outlaws, and then trash like Harley Quinn and Suicide Squad
>High school students who can't drive will still have access to comics, and so will college students/adults who are too lazy to drive
>Then just put ads for the various boxes all over youtube, reddit, etc. where today's interested normalfag parties would congregate

Oh, and you'd obviously have the option to buy the $30 Deluxe version, which contains the one thing no normalfag can resist: Funko Pops

Same reason Coca Cola and McDonalds keep spending money on as campaigns even though the pretty much the whole world already knows who them, brand awareness.

The Justice league box. wouldn't be a bad idea. The main title itself and the solos

>Comics are supposed to be fun disposable entertainment
Says you

>Young Animal Box
>Metal Box
>CW Box
>Dark Matter Box
>Miniseries-A-Month box that reprints some of the minis they've already done
I also feel like they could get away with having 3 versions of each one: Basic $15 (just comics and the monthly pin/figurine), Plus $30 (Basic with a funko pop), and Deluxe $45 (Plus but it comes with a TPB)

He’s comparing how manga is treated in Japan to how comics are in the U.S

If 10,000 people buy a book it's a best seller
if 10,000 see a movie it's utter garbage

this isn't newsworthy
you killed a thread for this nonsense

That's kind of like what we have in some European countries.

Which ones?

>normalfags are going to assume you're reading hentai
Doesn't help that Gantz throws boobs on every other page.

The author's other manga is not any better with nudity.

This

The clerk is shitty then. I don't even follow Iron Man and if someone wanted to jump on board with Iron Man I'd just hand them Extremis.

>Comics are supposed to be fun disposable entertainment.

Literally this argument was first used when novels came out, then movies, then TV, then videos games, and on and on.

A medium of entertainment isn't meant to be anything in particular; it's just a medium.

Because comics are mostly sold in specialty shops with sweaty gamer nerds and are expensive. Comics are a hobby, whereas movies, TV and video games can just be enjoyed casually and inexpensively.

You have to devote significant time and money into comics and deliberately go out to special places to buy them. Hence most comics readers are hardcore fans in their 20's and up.

If you could get really cheap digital subscriptions and there were significantly more options for people who don't care for capes, maybe they'd be more popular and you'd have adults reading them on their phones during lunch breaks or on vacation or old people reading in their lounge chairs like they do magazines and books.

TPBs have been selling really well since the movies got big, but mostly with kids, teens and young adults, so most publishers are trying to appeal more to that market while being careful not to piss off the LCSs (except Marvel)

Accessibility is the word. Comics are sold almost solely in specialty shops at no less than $3 an issue for 20 pages of reading, some of which is ads. That is not a good value, and comic shops aren't abundant enough for the average customer to feel like driving out to one. My nearest comic shop is over 20 minutes away by car.

Digital buying makes things a little better, but digital books are sold for the same price as physical, which creates even less value. And you don't see as abundant an amount of sales like you would for other digital services like Steam does for games.

This has, in turn, changed who comics are primarily written for: the adult hobbyists who are willing to travel the distance and pay the price. There aren't many cape comics written for the all ages audience anymore, mostly teen and up.

It's not like kids have lost interest in superheroes or the possibilities of comics. Look at that DC Superhero Girls thing. You sell them in places more accessible to kids and it sells over 100k.

Not to mention there's ALWAYS some Batman thing going on that's easy to get into, jesus.

To also reiterate: too expensive, too hard-to-get.

It's even worse you consider that comics are almost solely "seen" in their floppy form: if you consider how comics appear in TV, movies, cartoons, etc., it's exclusively in the physical floppy form. This wouldn't necessarily be a big deal if floppies were easy to buy online...but they're not. (Example exercise: try to buy the Batman #30 floppy online, perhaps from Amazon. Try not to spend an exorbitant amount of money due to shipping).

One option: market trade paperbacks more. This already kinda/sorta happens with, for instance, DC and their famous "graphic novels": Watchmen, TDKR, and so on. This works at least from the companies' perspectives, although comics still aren't "popular" from this avenue.

But the most obvious option is just to go with the already existing and overwhelming "marketing": make floppies a bigger deal, make them easy to put into people's hands, make them cheap. I mean, consider this: what if DC/Marvel teamed up with Amazon to give subscriptions to an ongoing series as an extra+cheap add-on? A similar thing is already done with small grocery-like products, so it could easily be done with comics.

Nah, this wouldn't work simply because it's too expensive -- it'll sell no better than the average Western anthology (a.k.a. like utter shit). Weekly Shonen Jump is cheap as FUCK: like the equivalent of $2 per week for ~200 pages of content (the English-language digital WSJ is literally 99 cents for ~200 pages).

Remember Island? 15 bucks for 100 pages of comics, of which half were usually literal gay furry pornography. Or MOME, where every single entry was abstract/experimental/avant-garde (i.e. as hideous and incomprehensible as possible). Who would want to buy that shit?

>Not getting your porn, Asterix, wild west comics, manga, capeshit, action comics, daily newspapers, gardening magazines etc from your next door super market or a kiosk

Sad.

If Marvel wants to attract MCU fans, why don't they try publishing graphic novels set in the MCU and sell them directly as trades, skipping publication in the floppy format altogether?

>Nah, this wouldn't work simply because it's too expensive
It would cost basically less than buying them at an LCS since you'd get probably 5 comics for $15

>of which half were usually literal gay furry pornography

Please if you're going to try have a discussion at least stick to facts, not memes.

because the movies are good and the comics are shit