How would you make a Batman Movie with the Riddler as the main antagonist? No, Jim Carrey was not a Riddler

How would you make a Batman Movie with the Riddler as the main antagonist? No, Jim Carrey was not a Riddler.

Daily reminder that we could have had Robin Williams who would have been the definitive Riddler, miles above Carrey's stupid shit, if WB hadn't screwed him over with Batman 89 and completely destroyed his trust.

Can I make adaptation of Batman Earth-One v2?

Is it wrong to basically make a fourth Nolan film? Mr. Reese seemed like a good set up for Riddler.

There can be miracles when you believe, user. You can do whatever you set your mind to.

It should have been a 3rd instead of the Big Guy and CIA

What happened?

Nah, theme-wise, Bane and Talia was fitting, as Nolan was ending his trilogy, which usually meant facing ghosts from the past and the future and such.
Could have been done better, of course.

WB wanted Nicholson as their first pick for the Joker but he was dragging his feet over it, so they went to Williams and offered it to him instead. Mind you, they had no intention of really giving it to him, they just wanted to make Nicholson jealous. It worked, and Williams was understandably pissed about it. This came back to bite WB in the ass years later when they wanted to cast him as the Riddler in Forever and he refused because he was still bitter about being used as bait for Nicholson.

I'm trying to imagine Williams as the Joker.

It's not going well. Even with his later-in-life dramatic villain chops

Nolan was a mistake from the beginning

You don't show him as this super cool badass for one. The whole draw of Eddie, at least to me, is that he's pathetic. He's smart and tries to come off as a sophisticated edgelord, but he's not nearly as intelligent as he thinks he is and falls apart pretty quickly under pressure. I'd want to see that side of the character instead of Jigsaw Lite like everyone else seems to want.

Don't be salty now. Even if DKR was a mess, the first two films were phenomenal.

I'd have Riddler working as a detective at the GCPD, under a false name, and "The Riddler" is an enigmatic terrorist trying to bring Gotham up to speed intellectually. In the third act, Bruce would exploit his vanity saying "No one will know it was you" and then he becomes this self centered asshole who gets drunk on the idea of being Gothams intellectual celebrity.

In SPITE of Nolan, not because of him

The problem with writing Riddler is that you have to be as smart as Batman to make riddles challenging enough for him.

I always wondered why we never had a Gotham City Sirens type of story with him, Scarecrow and the Mad Hatter. Ideally it should be written by Dini because he's the best at humanizing these villains, but still. Given the Riddler's role in that story plus the fact that he's always put in the same group as Scarecrow and the Hatter, it seems like something that should've happened already.

2>3>1
Just like mad max. Fight me, nigger

I would make it an adaptation of Run, Riddler, Run, Matt Wagner's The Riddle Factory and his TAS episodes

Two stories that have The Riddler in showmanship positions that fit his persona and provide unique challenges for Batman. In the 1st, he is hired by rich fascists to install a security system and is later caught up between Batman and those same people while setting his own schemes. In the 2nd, he gets his own public access TV show and threatens to expose Bruce Wayne's secrets.

The TAS origin provides an ideal starting point especially if the conflict is going to involve Riddler revolting against rich assholes. Riddler's Reform features him trying to sell himself as a brand, What Is Reality is there because technologically trapping Batman in a virtual world is something that's never been done in a movie, and it can be written to match the plot of Run Riddler Run since the fascists from that comic are trying to build a "city-within-a-city" safe haven for rich people, and you could easily make it a VR scenario gradually taken over and turned into Riddler's puzzle Wonderland that Batman needs to rescue people from.

I'd keep the other rogues out of it except allude to Penguin and Mad Hatter, because I like the idea of Jervis being duped into a Riddler scheme and because I think the only way to break his pedophiliac characterization is if he gets depicted in a movie without it.

One of the main problems Riddler's had when it comes to adaptations is that he's often treated as a poor man's Joker and that's the impression normies have of him. So I'd focus on the things Riddler fans like about him: he is a endearing wildcard and mood-swinging drama queen who, unlike Joker, is allowed to be unpredictable because his goal is not to murder thousands or spread chaos, he's an orderly egotist wanting to prove himself intellectually superior.

I'd probably try and hire some magicians or puzzle geeks to write him though since I'm terrible with riddles.

partially because Riddler often lacks a strong motivation as a villain.

Plus, Riddler often lacks a great deal of the physicality normally associated with Batman villains or to seem like a threat.

From a "Batman movie" standpoint, he'd be written off because a well done Riddler movie would be a mystery story where batman has to actuaslly be a detective and think about things for once instead of whipping out a gadget or punching it.

Frankly, I'd like uit.

He could have aced the role easily. Robin Williams was one hell of an actor.

Do him the way the Arkham games did him. Basically depict him as a Jigsaw-like character. Mass audiences would eat that up.

Robin Williams would make a poor Joker. He's actually funny.

You still need some sort of physical threat to Batman. Like have Riddler team up with Killer Croc, or find a way to control/direct Manbat.

Actually I think a possiblity could involve Riddler hiding/framing a bunch of other Gotham villains. Let batman fight them while he keeps getting further away.

Arkham Riddler is unironically my absolute favorite Riddler.

HAS YOUR PRIMITIVE BRAIN GIVEN UP AND ACCEPTED THAT I, THE RIDDLER, AM BETTER THAN YOU?

DIE, FATHER!
I MEAN... BATMAN.

>You still need some sort of physical threat to Batman.
You really don't, especially if Riddler is going to be the main villain of the story.
Even normies can appreciate the value of a villain who isn't necessarily a physical threat but still dangerous nonetheless if Heath Ledger's Joker was any indication.
And including Killer Croc or Man-Bat just to serve as muscle fodder is a disservice to both characters, just as it was to Bane in Batman & Robin (even more so because Croc and Man-Bat tend to be loners with personal tragedies that get emphasized when they take spotlight)

I like this idea

Tim Burton's Batman 3 still wasn't happening even if Robin Williams was on board.
Just ask Billy Dee Williams.

Follow the KISS rule.
Riddler kidnaps a bunch of important people. Mayor Hill, Gordon, a senator, maybe even Dent depending on when you want to tell the story. Riddler takes over a TV broadcast telling everyone who he is. He's sick to death of everyone sucking Bat's dick as the smartest guy in the world and the greatest detective. It is he the Riddler who is the greatest mind ever! And he's going to prove it by making Batman look like a drooling retard. He leaves some exceptionally hard coded riddle. The next day the richest place in Gotham is stripped bare. There's no evidence at all and no one knows who did it. Riddler comes on TV again. He gloats about how smart he is and brags about how he was the one who robbed the place. He leaves another clue that leaves Batman befuddled. Next day he reveals that he kidnapped all the important people and now Batman must play a game with him. He 's leaving each person in a death trap and Batman must both solve the riddle in time to find their location, then solve the death trap to save them. Batman saves everyone except the second hostage just to keep the stakes raised. Bats tracks him down with Nigma's gigantic ego being his undoing. Batman makes a bad pun before breaking his nose and sending him to Arkham.

Oh, and Alfred solves one of the riddles for Bruce when he's at the end of his rope with his shard British wit.

It's a little hard to keep things simple with Eddie. Most comic book villians can make a plan similar to the one you outlined.

Make him more like this.

Yeah, I'd really be banking on having great actors with that plot outline. But I'm no writer.

...

>autists think Robert Englund was a better Scarecrow than Riddler just because MUH FREDDY
Still one of my favorite versions of the character. His autism was still there, just more subtle (and funnier for it).

>I've never watched the show this is from, but he looks stupid so the character must be stupid
We got a retard here

That would he a movie with sort of a smaller scale and lower stakes than the usual superhero movie and sadly I don't see anyone doing that anytime soon, especially not with Batman.

But I'd make it a detective movie. The Riddler is on a crime spree, nothing as grandiose as anything that happened in the Noland movies, just something like him stealing valuable items from museums and private collectors in Gotham, and Batman investigating it. Some worldbuilding about the Gotham Underworld, some other villains in smaller roles, that sort of thing.

well thats disgusting

How do you make a suspenseful movie if the primary antagonist isn't threatening? I don't think Batman as a franchise is ready to dial things back down yet, especially not since TDK is still relatively refresh in everyone's memory

You can be both threatening and pathetic. This isn't the best example, but it's enough of an idea of what kind of antagonist that kind of character would be.

It's like Saw but with Batman using escape artistry to get past every level, eventually cleverly using detective skill and gadgetry to cheat the system and capture Riddler.

>Batman has to prove Riddler right by cheating to beat him
>wanting le sick Jigsaw Riddler
The Arkham games were a mistake and Snyder hammered it in.

He doesn't cheat to win the games, he cheats to capture Riddler. Riddler designed the stuff specifically so he wouldn't ever be in any danger. I actually completely forgot that it was similar to the Arkham versions and it only seemed like it by accident.

In the games, Batman only has to cheat because The Riddler does, he purposefully makes puzzles with no solutions or clues, or he rigs it so you die even if you get it right

Only in those games. In the actual canon, Riddler's compulsion necessitates that he needs to make fair riddles that actually have solutions. This is one of the most base things about the character.

Yeah, I didn't like that change to his character

Riddle me this riddle me that, Bazinga!

write a bunch of interesting and difficult riddles for Batman to solve? a mix of Poirot and Case Closed

Good God, No. that was one of the worst Riddlers ever

NEVER... After appear in Batman, deathstroke and Tellstale series, he has enough..
Use another BETTER character.

Calendar Man. Long Halloween adaptation when?

Riddler could only really work if you actually make Batman a detective in the film, which would be fantastic in a starter film (or a final film where Bruce is older).

Otherwise Eddie would need to change completely from his base character and would probably just turn into a discount Jigsaw.

I loved him in the Arkham games. He still had plenty of actual riddles to solve in every game. The death traps gave him something to do physically to the player, even if it changed the character a bit. You always had a way out, as well.

The Riddler as he is often portrayed probably would not work very well.
Tone down the riddles, and up the vengeance factor and have him be the villain in the shadows who is in plain sight kind of guy. The riddles would be more of an afterthought to taunt the police. Once Batman starts figuring the low level clues Riddler would up the difficulty with obvious answers that would be wrong, and not so obvious answers that would be right.
Big climax would come when Batman has figured out who Riddler really is, but finds the man virtually untouchable because of his political and business connections (and the small army that he is funding).
Batman manages to expose him, so Riddler activates his doomsday puzzle that would cripple every bit of computer controlled infrastructure. The solution to the puzzle is a triple threat of simple, difficult, and a "no one knows but Batman" question.

Can someone link me to the Flash thread, the archives are migrating their database so cant find it there

Someone get this hothead out of here.

1>3>2
Ledgers Joker bothered me to much to enjoy DK if Two-FAce was the main villian it would have been better.

I like that.

Good... Calendar Man as secondary villain, we need a better Main antagonist..

We'll never get a proper screen adaption of the Hamill Joker because of Ledger. I try not to let that make me retroactively like his performance less, but...

Since there's no way they'll ever in a million years do a traditional or comics accurate version of the Riddler...

They should just make it like Se7en. Some killer is killing people in really brutal, bizarre ways, and creating a huge complex puzzle solely to challenge Batman.

There would be a part where Batman gets lured into a death trap and has to escape, a part where Riddler toys with Batman by setting up a Dark Knight-esque challenge where he's supposed to save one of two people and the other dies but Batman manages to outsmart him and save both, a part where Batman gets too close to Riddler and initiates a chase, a part where certain deaths seem to not fit into the pattern and it turns out it was actually Zsasz doing unrelated killings, and then finally Riddler and Batman have a final chase in some dangerous place like on top of a tower or through a factory or some shit.

It'd be really cool to have a Batman movie that's not about big action set pieces and just about Batman solving a crime. No crazy scifi gadgets, no Batman effortlessly fighting like 50 guys at once, no Batplanes and high speed chases with explosions, just a guy with a grapnel gun, a belt of tools, a car and a deductive mind.

i would make a zero year movie split into 2 parts. part 1 ends when the joker jumped int eh vat of chemicals and the city blew up. part 2 is everytihng after that. jesse eisenberg or matthew gray gubler could work. woody harrelson too, but i dont think he is the right age