Why would they even choose this literal who to play the first villain in what should have been their biggest franchise?

Why would they even choose this literal who to play the first villain in what should have been their biggest franchise?

Other urls found in this thread:

vulture.com/2017/09/dc-wonder-woman-movie-strategy-universe.html
twitter.com/AnonBabble

Kys you hyper-casual

because WB has idiots in charge?

this isn’t exactly something shocking

So they didn't blow their load on Darkseid immediately.

They probably shouldn't be using Darkseid at all, at this point it's just going to get 'Thanos rip off' complaints from reviewers and normies.

Now they are not even going to use Darkseid anymore

So it was all for nothing.

Why can't DC make anything original?
>Wonder Woman: ripoff of Thor mythological gods stuff mixed with WWII self-sacrificing pilot stuff from Captain America (made it WWI so the ripoff was less obvious)
>Darkseid: cheap ripoff of Thanos
>Aquaman: cheap ripoff of Namor, with Atlantean royal blood and everything
>Green Arrow: bargain basement Hawkeye ripoff
>Cheetah: offbrand Tigra copycat
>Batman: lame version of Daredevil
>Flash: Quicksilver did it better already
>Deathstroke: less funny ripoff of Deadpool
>Justice League: let's throw all our heroes together, Avengers ripoff

!(gr8 b8 m8)

Who would suggest. Most normies only know Batman villians and the character needs to be tied to someone like Darkseid. Also they can't use Darkseid because then it harder to top him for a sequel. Darkseid will be held on for mo ies like Marvel did with Thanos.

He's not wrong, Steppenwolf hasn't fucking mattered at all

Most justice league villains are literally who's to movie goers.

They should have just brought out the big guns I'm, they already spurted early at almost every turn in this cinematic universe.
>Superman is tragically forced to forced to break his no killing rule.... in his first battle ever.
>Batman fights Superman in the second movie in the universe.
>Also Batman's lost a Robin offscreen and has been killing people for years offscreen even when his code is an integral part of his character.
>The other league members are introduced in a slideshow.
>Superman dies in his second movie
>Suicide squad is a bunch of rogue gallery characters who get a movie before their heroes do.
>Superman isn't even dead for two movies, but they still have the nerve to only put him on screen for seven minutes in the fucking justice league movie.
But no we can't rush into darkseid, let's use this guy normies have never even heard of.

>literal who

user you realize Darkseid is a fucking literal who to the mass market.

The only supes/JL villein not a who is Lex and Zod. And even those two don't mean shit on the worldwide stage.

Comic wise you fucks will pay to see anything long as it has cape shit so your opinion doesn't matter.

>Superman is tragically forced to forced to break his no killing rule
I don't think Superman has a no-kill phobia like Batman does and this isn't comics where we need these villains to stay alive.

Most importantly why didn't they bring in Darkseid at the end?
I'm not talking post credits.
>Steppenwolf fails
>Parademons surround him
>Darkseid emerges from a boomtube and proclaims nobody fails him twice
>Obliterates Steppenwolf, showing actual impact and power scale since the league had to fight him together
>Darkseid fucks off, allowing them a moment of victory but setting up a legitimate long term threat

Sure, to the mass market. But among general nerd culture everyone knows who Darkseid is. I can totally imagine Big Bang Theory mentioning him at some point.

Cape movies these days are like a negotiation between the core audience and the wider public - you're supposed to make a movie that appeals to both, accurate enough for capefans and streamlined enough for general audiences.

Steppenwolf is a shit character who appeals to fucking nobody. Why the fuck would you dedicate your flagship movie to a C-list underling? This would be like if TWS was about Batroc the Leaper and nobody fucking else.

>Obliterates Steppenwolf, showing actual impact and power scale since the league had to fight him together
Superman one-shots Steppenwolf. Superman demolished the League.

>This would be like if TWS was about Batroc the Leaper and nobody fucking else.
But that would be amazing and something I would want.

Not a phobia, but in 70 or so years Superman has killed on maybe two or three occasions, and it was always treated as a huge deal. After killing Zod and co, IIRC, he went into space exile for years.

Compare this to say, Captain America, who doesn't like killing either but does it when necessary, like a good soldier.

Sure, Superman killing Zod is okay, but the second movie should have been some version of TDKR then, with Superman fucking distraught and questioning everything he did, not gallivanting like nothing happened.

What's with the giant eyebrow on his head?

They should've used Granny Goodness. Not even joking. She's instantly memorable, and has enough charisma on concept alone to keep the audiences' attention. Plus, she's Darkseid's most trusted and competent general, so her defeat would actually make it plausible that Darkseid would bother coming to Earth himself.

Why did they use the most boring Apokolips general? That just baffles me. ANY of the other notable ones would've done. Desaad, Kalibak, the aforementioned Granny, maybe even Kanto, ... Fuck, why not be kinda slick about it and have Barda be the main antagonist of this movie? But no, you went with the guy that even Fourth World nuts don't give a shit about. Snyder, you fucking hack.

Could Granny Goodness work?

Sexually, yes.

They should have used brianiac.

...

The original pitch for Justice League was a two-parter, Steppenwolf setting up Darkseid. Then they slashed it to one movie and Snyder & WB are incompetent so they didn't change the villain.

Unironically this

SWORD-EL, NO!

Use multiple honestly.

Granny, Desaad and Kalibak team up and go to Earth to wreck shit. You're still not blowing your Darkseid load but you have a more interesting and unique villain cast and the fans are happy.

I'm an X-fag and I shit on Fox all the time for some truly baffling decisions (like giving up on continuity somewhere around DoFP) but they're fucking wizards compared to WB.

>But among general nerd culture everyone knows who Darkseid is

Characters name dropped on big bang rarely, if ever grow up a massive enough following to be remembered or build off of. The closest we've seen from that is maybe Flash. And even then I'd argue that has more to do with the boner comic staff has for Barry being the Jesus of DC.

Average joe blow and xao xung know jack shit about the comic characters as a whole. This means a competent director could pick out or hell create a new villein out of anyone and make it work so long as they actually have some talent.

Nerds only exist to be guaranteed purchases. Appeasing you means diddly because DC/WB know our dumbasses will buy tickets no matter what. Transformers is proof of this as the fanbase is shit on there but the movies sell like hot cakes because the worldwide markets love the move lore and take.

tl:dr Nerds don't matter to CEOs.

You misunderstand my post, Tintin-user.

"TBBT might mention Darkseid" is a proxy that Darkseid is well-known within nerd circles. That's it. I wasn't implying they'd make a cult following, but you can't tell me if you asked 10 random people at a comic-con that at least 7 wouldn't know who Darkseid is.

Steppenwolf I'd wager would be 2, maybe 3.

Mass market is absolutely more important than the core audience, but the best-reviewed and liked movies blend both together, leaving everyone at least somewhat satisfied.

Who is Steppenwolf for? Not the comic audience who doesn't care about a C-list Fourth World nobody. Not the casuals who would just see some God of War-looking generic-ass villain. Who is the market they're trying to reach?

Also, in my experience casuals do like it if something "matters" in the comics, because then you get hype transfer.

"Who's Thanos?"
"Oh man, he's this badass alien overlord who wants absolute power and destroys planets and shit, he's dangerous and a huge threat."
"Sounds cool, thanks."

"Who's Steppenwolf?"
"He's, um, the uncle of this better villain that you haven't seen, and he's just, kind of, a general serving under him."
"Oh."

You see my point.

Does he even have any well regarded stories?

No but to be fair that's true for a lot of comic book characters.

Ok, I see where you're coming from now. But still find it illrelvent.

You're right, SW is 100% shit IF the main selling point of the movie is the heroes coming together to fight the ultimate big bad.But he isn't.

The focus the movie took instead was to have the heroes coming together period and show what kind of threats are their Tuesday.

If you want to build your Trilogy up you don't blow your load on the first film. Look at Avengers, its first antagonist were made up copyright friendly characters but the audience as a whole didn't give a shit because the selling point was on the combined forces against overwhelming odds angle. They didn't jump straight to Kang, Thanos, or not Galactus.

Another movie to look at is the first fox-men. Focus is on the team rather than the villein. End result though thanks to good performances and star choices is Magneto becoming solidly number one for casuals.

Let me ask, where would you have gone after DS was used? Injustice gang? Space?

Now THAT is a normie response.

Steppenwolf has always been a lesser general, whose entire thing is "uncle wary of Darkseid."

Thats a terrible idea. Please dont write films.

Played by Ron Perlman

I plainly wouldn't use Darkseid in the first movie period.

My preferred option would be like what the DCAU did, a White Martian invasion. This brings out all the characters in a reasonable manner, and introduces GL and Martian Manhunter in a way that makes sense.

Second movie should explicitly be lower-scale, but it would depend on what the preceding movies did. Something like the Secret Society could be great, but it doesn't work if none of them are introduced beforehand, then you get a mass of weightless characters (see X-Men: The Last Stand). Maybe a time travel plot with Vandal Savage? Or Prometheus.

Third movie would then bring in Darkseid and the Fourth World, as a suitably epic conclusion.

What are the chances of us getting anti-monitor anytime in the future?

>OY VEY MY PRECIOUS SILVA

What's for sure is they're not building up to it Thanos style

vulture.com/2017/09/dc-wonder-woman-movie-strategy-universe.html

Still keeping the universe but movies are basically going to be standalone

Fuck sake really?

>I don't think Superman has a no-kill phobia
t.has never read a superman comic
If anything he's almost just as anal about it. Literally his send off from the golden age was about him stripping himself of his powers and 'killing' himself all just because he murdered one dude who pretty clearly deserved it

yeah but muh synergy origin story.
>this is what the DC universe was rebooted for

Personally, I'd rather Wonder Woman impale ME.

Times change.

Adult spirituality.
t. Armond White

But he has horns. Like the devil. That's deep.

Silver Age, you mean.

Golden Age Superman generally avoided killing, but still killed several times even in big iconic storylines (like CoIEs).

The other most infamous super-man kill has it fucking him up to the point that he goes into self exile and that was when he executed three people who had literally committed near universal genocide.
Right sorry, was obviously talking about Whatever Happened To The Man Of Tomorrow

With the right casting definitely

>Marvel has 1 McGuffin in their movies
>Let's have 3 in ours

Though, you say Zod is one people know. They only know him because of a movie. The trick is it has to be a good movie.

because casuals wouldn't understand Starro.

Because Zack Snyder is a fucking hack and WB is literally retarded. They should've shot that shit down faster than a Stacy rejecting a robot asking for a date.

It's funny how DCEUfags keep on acting like everyone who hates Steppenwolf being the villain are massive casuals, when even the biggest DC fans, who have been reading DC for YEARS now, even hardcore New Gods fans, have NEVER given a shit about Steppenwolf. It's just a bizarre choice and it basically just boils down to, "Well, we kinda wanted our own Loki to prep for an invasion by Darkseid." And there's so many things wrong with even that. Why start with the New Gods now? Why not use Granny Goodness and the Female Furies?

They should've started with Brainiac.

His backstory is directly connected with Superman's, who has been the connecting thread of these movies. His involvement in Krypton's destruction can be easily retconned.

He's an even bigger and more visually interesting threat than an army of parademons, and he could pose a more personal conflict for Clark, who is still hung up on not knowing his home planet, and the fact that he's an alien without a place to belong.

He's a big evil guy with horns and a beard.
He's the devil.
This movie was directed by Zack Snyder

got a problem with something boyo?

It's a crown

Somewhat casual DC reader here

Literally have never heard of Steppenwolf. If they wanted it to be Darksied related they should have used Granny or Kalibak (who isn't really all that more popular but I at least sorta know who they are)

or better yet would have been perfect

Yeah, Steppenwolf, Granny and Kalibak should've been introduced WITH Darkseid, as sort of minor bosses or supporting characters.

>Somewhat casual DC reader here
>Literally have never heard of Steppenwolf
Don't worry about it. Even hardcore DC fans have either barely heard of him or don't even remotely give a shit about him. He's literally one of the least important New Gods.

>If they wanted it to be Darksied related they should have used Granny or Kalibak (who isn't really all that more popular but I at least sorta know who they are)
Both are also superior characters too. Steppenwolf has always been pretty forgettable but Granny Goodness is oozing with personality and Kalibak's great because he's an incredibly strong guy who's also stupid as fuck. In fact, the two working together with the Female Furies could've been entertaining.

Brainiac would've been a good choice but I feel like he should be saved for a Superman movie. Starro should've been the villain for sure, if not at least the White Martians, introducing J'onn that way, like the cartoon.

To be fair if they ever make another man of steel I feel like they are saving him for it

Because he's the only Scout Apokalypse has.

Because they don't have a fucking clue what they are doing.

>introducing J'onn

It's like he, Zack Snyder, Deborah Snyder, and WB executives are like the perfect ingredients for the shit stew that is the DCEU.

why does no one ever consider mantis

Steppenwolf is one of the most unremarkable parts of the New Gods mythos. I've never met a single DC fan, even a hardcore one, who ever claimed to care about him.
The only people that I've ever seen argue for Steppenwolf's character is DCEUfags who are absolutely desperate to defend this movie like this guy.

Brainiac seems like a no-brainer choice, pun intended. Especially because of the Injustice 2 popularity.
And I while I don't think Granny Goodness would fit the DCEU, in an ideal world where DC movies aren't dour looking piles of shit, she would be the idea enemy to set up Darkseid.
And Justice League having a dominant female villain would invite comparisons to Hela, and a character as absurd yet powerful like Granny would look even better because Hela is a boring character in a movie that forgets she exists most of the time.

Sadly, we don't live in an ideal world, we live in a world where Zack Snyder probably chose Steppenwolf because his edgy teenage mindset saw a DC villain with devil horns and thought that was instantly JL material.

>Wally was erased from existence for five years for THIS

I'be said this before, Starro would've been fucking great, but I can see how it might have clashed with the tone of the world they were building. Which isn't necessarily a bad thing, I know.

>Who is Steppenwolf why not Darseid?
They didn't want to blow their load
> Granny and Kalibak should've been introduced
>Why did they use the most boring Apokolips general? That just baffles me. ANY of the other notable ones would've done. Desaad, Kalibak, the aforementioned Granny, maybe even Kanto,
The people would bitch Zack ruined them Steppenwolf a safe bet.
>But he has horns. Like the devil. That's deep.
He has a horned helmet
>user you realize Darkseid is a fucking literal who to the mass market.
My Co workers knew who he was

>They didn't want to blow their load
In a universe where Superman killing is in the first movie, him dying is in the second, and we do a Suicide squad as the third, nobody buys the "the wanted to take their time" reasoning.

Seriously. Fuck the DCEU's fucking tone. I feel like 90% of all the weird, crazy, awesome shit that purveys the DCU wouldn't fit in the cinematic universe they've established. I mean, how do you adapt a character as silly, yet still sinister and intimidating as Granny Goodness in a universe that's already so dull, so 'realistic', so mopey? We just need a reboot by this point.

>a fucking literal who to the mass market.
Normies don't know shit about New Gods but they definitely have a passing idea of who Darkseid is.

Exactly.
I have no desire to see the New Gods in the DCEU. I do not want to see Jack Kirby's fantastic, colorful and larger-than-life mythos represented in a cinematic universe that rejects every opportunity to embrace those things.
I'd rather have no New Gods in a movie than sit through shitty adaptations of them.

You don't have to care about Steppenwolf but you should know who he is if you had any passing familiarity with the fourth world property.

I have no doubt Snyder would have done Darkseid, left to his own devices

Johns or Whedon probably changed it at gunpoint

Steppenwolf doesn't even die

Right? It's a shame because I feel like George Miller would be absolutely perfect for a New Gods movie but by the time we get a reboot and a proper DC cinematic universe, if we ever do, he'll be dead by then probably.

The DCEU is the farthest thing from being "realistic"

I mean, I can see why they do it. It can be interesting to see a weird and crazy villain in a realistic setting. Especially when studios see it works.

Then again, once you have a half transformer cyborg, all that goes out the window.

Knowing =/= caring.
Steppenwolf was always a literal who and not even a good one.

I feel like Braniac should be the final boss but I don't know a whole lot about comic books. I'm trying to change that, though.

None of you guys actually give a shit about Kirby's New Gods tho. You buy into your own bullshit about who the New Gods are supposed to be but it's all cagur assumptions based on secondhand information.

Like I said before, you don't have to care about Steppenwolf but if you don't know who he is then you never read a comoc about the new gods.

>None of you guys actually give a shit about Kirby's New Gods tho.
Nigga, please. Fuck off with your pro-DCEU bullshit. I'm a huge fan of the New Gods, have always been. Don't try to tell me shit.

Just need to change the design a little and it would unironically fit right into the DCEU.

Go Stranger Things with him, turn him into an otherworldly semi-solid Lovecraftian horror thing.

"Justice League vs. mind-controlling Cthulhu" would differentiate it from Avengers in a great way.

This. I personally don't "get" The New Gods or their popularity at all, but it is completely retarded that they've decided to shoehorn the part of DC that's probably the least fitting to the theme and atmosphere they're going for instead of picking literally anything else.
If they felt that NG should be in DCEU, they should have just made a separate movie focused on only(or at least mostly) them first, with a distinctively different atmosphere than the rest of films. Hell, that would actually be a great way to underline and distinguish their foreignness

>They should've used Granny Goodness.
Oh shit that would be glorious, is dannny devito still available?

Then you should've know who Steppenwolf is.

Its funny because for almost all of these examples, dc has done them first

But I did know who Steppenwolf was. I just didn't give a flying fuck about him.

People who know and care about the New Gods know who Steppenwolf is, and they don't give a shit about him.

As explicitly stated in the thread.

DCEUfags confuse knowing for caring.
That's why when ever someone says their godking Snyder didn't do a good job establishing characters or endearing them to the audience, they say
>Everyone knows who this character is already! They don't need a solo! Oceans Eleven!

Do you want SNyder's version of GG? Doomsday is a cave troll, we got two Men of Murder, a skelly WW and a Lex Luthor who's less convincing for the role than he was as Mark Zuckerberg. I don't even know how Snyder would've made a grim uninteresting version of Granny but he would've found a way.

The funniest part about it all is that they don't even read the comics 90% of the time, don't actually give a shit about the characters outside of the movies, don't understand the characters at all, etc.

They just fuel into the, "It's for the fans!" rhetoric that directors and executives use when their movies fucking tank.

I'm a marvel fanboy and this bait made me laugh.
>Deathstroke: less funny ripoff of Deadpool
Top Kek
However the only true ripoff on the list you mentioned is aquaman and namor.
Namor was introduced a year or two before aquaman

>It's funny how DCEUfags keep on acting like everyone who hates Steppenwolf being the villain are massive casuals, when even the biggest DC fans, who have been reading DC for YEARS now, even hardcore New Gods fans, have NEVER given a shit about Steppenwolf.

This. If they wanted to use a Darkseid underling people actually gave a shit about, it'd have been Kalibak or Granny Goodness.

And in other news, water is wet. You know what he meant.

Guilty as charged. I do know who Darkseid, Kalibak, Desaad, Granny Goodness and the Furies, Big Barda, Mr Miracle, High Father and Orion are because of all the other DC media and few comic storylines I've seen.

Any one of those other names would have generated more hype for this movie than the fucking nobody Steppenwolf.

>If they felt that NG should be in DCEU, they should have just made a separate movie focused on only(or at least mostly) them first, with a distinctively different atmosphere than the rest of films. Hell, that would actually be a great way to underline and distinguish their foreignness
This is exactly what I wanted, actually.

Steppenwolf is pretty much Virman Vundabar tier, without the outright Nazi uniform to make hit slightly memorable.