Punisher

What the fuck, Sup Forums? It was actually good. once again, you are full of shit.

episodes 1, 5, 11, 12, and 13 were good. The rest were either mediocre or shit. Mostly shit.
Which doesn't even matter because if the whole season was 10/10 it would still be 8/8 gr8 'not muh frank' b8. I know why Disney gave the Punisher a redemption story and it's a bullshit copout. Whoever that man was at the end of the last episode he wasn't the brutal, broken thing that is Frank Castle.
OP is a fag.

Not enough Franking. but what Franking was there was alright.

>Not enough Franking. but what Franking was there was alright.

Every episode has at least one frank'd moment, and the choreography is daredevil S1 and even movie tier at times

I'm halfway thru and im amazed at how comfy the Driving duel/segment was, good camera work to put you inside the cars.

My only turnoff is no Frank narration and for that it becomes an 8/10 for me.

I actually enjoy the investigation aspect of the show. And that they try to make work higher authorities with the crazyness of frank.

I also like that all headeggs aren't evil.

So, was he just making money with drug for his own profit, or was he financing something bigger yet to discover?

It's only major problem is the one problem every single Marvel show has had. They only really had enough going on for 8 episodes, but they stretched it out to 13.

It was needlessly long but good. Best of the netflix marvel shows besides DD S1.

this prettty much. I might be in the minority thinking iron fist was the best paced.

DUDE LMAO IS NOT THE DRUG DEALERS, THEY ARE JUST POOR NON WHITES THEY CAN'T BE EVIL, LMAO IT CAN'T BE CORRUPT BUSINESSMEN AS WELL BECAUSE HALF OF THEM ARE POOR JEWS.

IS THE GOVERMENT DUDE AND BY GOVERMENT I MEAN WHITE PEOPLE AND BY WHITE PEOPLE I MEAN WHITE MALES AND BY WHITE MALES I MEAN REPUBLICANS.

What a piece of shit, is not a punisher series is a fucking ANTIFA show, comic punisher would kill that bitch.

This.
I liked it, wich is pretty ironic since I was laughing my ass off with some people trying to say that justice league was good, now the tables have turned, I guess

The former I think. They said his family was old, shady money.

>the Punisher a redemption story
I don't really think Frank was redeemed. I think it was about him coming to terms with what he is now. Hence the "I am home" line when he was fantasizing about Maria.

I think this is better than season 1 of daredevil

You're the cancer that's killing Marvel series.

>>Sup Forums

i disagree, what they explored in the 13 episodes was worthy of exploration.

In comparison, I found Defenders way too short.

>DUDE LMAO IS NOT THE DRUG DEALERS, THEY ARE JUST POOR NON WHITES THEY CAN'T BE EVIL, LMAO IT CAN'T BE CORRUPT BUSINESSMEN AS WELL BECAUSE HALF OF THEM ARE POOR JEWS.
Somethign the show doesn't tell at all.

>
IS THE GOVERMENT DUDE AND BY GOVERMENT I MEAN WHITE PEOPLE AND BY WHITE PEOPLE I MEAN WHITE MALES AND BY WHITE MALES I MEAN REPUBLICANS.
It(s literally one rogue agent and the other head are actually show to be decent.

you are more pricky than a SJW.

it's okay.. why does it all seem to be about government conspiracies, frank cuckolding micropenis, and gun control?

He wasn't redeemed per se (maybe only in the eyes of the CIA, who are giving him a free pass on all that went down for helping them take down Rawlins), but they left him in a position where he thinks he doesn't have a war anymore, contrasting with the previous episode in which he refused to go with Maria because the war he was fighting was "home." It'll be interesting to see how they bring him back into the shit.

All and all, I really liked the season. Jon Bernthal is a good Frank, and he franked the frank.

Profit + financing the Cerberus program itself (this is how it managed to be off the books entirely illegal).

I thought it was great. The entire arc season was about loss and every character and interaction served that purpose. I think it could've been better if Karen Page openly addressed Matt's death but that would mean spoiling the last season of Daredevil for any who haven't watched it.

It’s Punisher with its nuts cut off and a tip of the fedora to Democrats and feminism.

Not it's not. Not at all.

>>DUDE LMAO IS NOT THE DRUG DEALERS, THEY ARE JUST POOR NON WHITES
The series literally start with him killing the head of a mexican drug cartel.

You mean Defenders?

He was totally justified in his actions. There was no moral ambiguity and his decision to fore go dying and being with maria and instead embracing his war didn't have any negative consequences. Maybe redemption is the wrong term but the series really did make Frank a tragic hero. Not an anti-hero or an outright villain Villain Frank best Frank which misses the point of the Punisher.

Kill yourself brainlet, that's not what the show was about. The only individual who was openly referenced as having a political leaning was the left leaning anti-gun politician who lied to make himself sound heroic when he actually shoved a woman in front of him in order to escape.

>government conspiracies
Following on the plot thread from the last season.
>frank cuckolding micropenis
Everyone in that interaction trying (and failing) to deal with loss in different ways, which is the central theme of the season.
>gun control?
I agree on this one. Though, given the recent shootings the series probably would've been criticized on that front had it not mentioned the debate. I think they did well by not focusing on it in much detail and showing non-strawman counterarguments like Karen Page.

IMO the central character arc for Lewis Wilson is not that he's pro gun rights. Rather Lewis is dealing with a loss brought on from being unable to return to a normal life (probably associated with his trauma/PTSD). Like a loss of purpose or sense-of-belonging. This is why he was perfectly happy joining Anvil even though it had literally nothing to do with changing the way things are run or gun rights (it gave him a way to avoid his loss by not having to return to a normal life). After that fell through he joined the NRA dude because it gave him something to blame and a war to fight.

I'll take that as a compliment

I disagree he's still at war. The CIA just cleared him of the terrorists crimes but he's still a wanted man. He's gonna hang out with the vets and then when bad shit goes down the frankening will continue.

It's the second time Netflix bring the right for women to carry weapons for their safety (well maybe more), is this some sort of pattern?

>He doesn't know Marvel series on Netflix are doomed by Disney.

So far they have all been good.

It was a good show stretched too far, should have been 6 or 7 episodes instead of 13.
The whole thing with the bomber was pointless, episode 1 added nothing to the plot except for establishing where Frank was emotionally (which could have been easily integrated into the main plot), and the last episode was seriously them stretching the thing as far as they can.

I felt like the last two episodes were a little ambiguous the meaning of the maria scene.

Leading up to the maria scene I felt like it was trying to make the point that Frank wasn't killing these people out of a sense of heroism or justice. He was just so broken that he was incapable of allowing himself happiness or a normal life. The scene with maria, especially her talking about how he's losing more and more of himself seemed like the moment where he truly accepts this irredeemable thing he's become. At that point I very much felt like Frank wasn't no hero or villain, he's just sick. This is a similar interpretation to you guys saying he was embracing his war as 'home'. Either way, that all seems to flip on its head after he's saved and the way things play out in the last episode (letting himself be captured, not killing Billy (AKA Jigsaw), and speaking to the Vets).

I guess this just feels like maybe not the intended interpretation from a writing perspective (why have this big important metaphorical scene only to pull a 180 by the next episode). I'm wondering if maybe the maria scene it meant something else entirely. Like Frank 'letting go' of Maria so that he can begin to imagine a 'life after'.

Yes, sorry.

Well he never did find out who actually pulled the trigger on his family. I imagine if anything sets him on a warpath again it'll be some clue about that.

this is the problem with all of the netflix marvel shows though. Absolutely none of them should be 13 episodes when they're spinning the wheels for half of those episodes
>Oh hey we got doctor who. Oh no he got out. Oh hey we got him again. Oh no he got away!
Fuck off

I disagree, it allow for a several-acts structure. After having seen defenders, it confirms me 13 episodes is a good format.

It allows for it, but did those stories need it? Like I said, a lot of it made it feel like these shows were just spinning their wheels and going nowhere for episodes at a time. The only one that it seems like it was a good idea was with the second season of Daredevil, where we get the first half with the Punisher an the second with Elektra.
Defenders felt like it needed 13 episodes but the rest of these shows have these stories that feel so needlessly stretched out

Aside for Iron Fist which was poorly written (fucking Scott Buck) the Netflix Marvel series tend to be more focused on providing users character/story/plot information by exploring themes rather than just juxtaposing action and exposition. If you're not paying attention to the themes in the Netflix series' (eg. 'loss' in Punisher or 'abuse' in Jessica Jones) then you're basically not watching the same show as everyone else.

I mentioned Jessica Jones because just about every single character in the first season experienced form of abuse (and a lot of different types were showcased). In Punisher we get something similar where the theme is explored from lots of perspectives some good and some bad (though not to the same extreme as Jessica Jones as there are a few characters who do not directly experience some sort of loss in the series).

>It allows for it, but did those stories need it?
I'd say yes. I am no t sure how to put it right, but if you allow video game ideology, it make for a "middle boss" fight before fighting the "final boss". It allows to display more of the hero's capability and badassery before it clash against the final boss.

I think user means that their future seems a bit iffy at the moment, with disney withdrawing their IP from netflix, and starting their own streaming service

I hope thats not the case, I like what they've done so far.

>iron fist
>good
Literally worse than arrow in every way and that's a well proved fact.

>no Frank narration
Literally this. I missed some moments of frank plannig his strategy on the spot and manny gunfigths where too quiet with no music at all and it would suit a lot some thoughts here and there while doing so.

This is pretty much what Luke Cage did, and that was my favorite of these shows so definitely agree with you here, even if it is a very shonen anime way of telling a story

It was extremely bad not only in a way where I ca acknowledge other people liking it and it just not being for me but to the point where I worry about the state of someone for having enjoyed it

>Disney starting their own streaming platform, sure to have original content at some point
>MCU not acknowledging the Netflix shows
>netflix marvel shows getting progressively worse

I hope they last, but I'm not expecting them to keep making new episodes once Disney makes their exit from Netflix.

Iron Fist was good.

it's just a bunch of butthurt DChumps saying it's bad

Don’t force me to like this dogshit just cause it has the Punisher’s name on it, I’m a huge Punisher fan. It was mostly generic government conspiracy drama bullshit, and Frank was all wrong even though Jon Bernthal is a great Punisher

I don't think it's "necessary" exactly but I do think it's good storytelling and think the product is better with them than without.

In storytelling, a writer building up a story arc with revelations and plot twists has to provide the viewer with all of the information they need in order to understand the developments (and reconcile it as sensible instead of an ass-pull) but they must do so in such a way that the viewer doesn't anticipate the twist. This is actually really hard to do. If you try to do it without any subplots it will often feel like the story is going nowhere and you're wasting time on things irrelevant to the story (because they're literally disguised to appear irrelevant to the story on purpose).

One could make use of more subplots, exposition, and action (like in monster of the week shows or Agents of SHIELD) but each of these things detract from your main story. On the other hand one could spend the time focusing on character development and themes. If done properly then at first glance these will seem irrelevant to the story but on closer inspection they will serve the story (either providing information, adding impact to the story, or emphasizing different aspects of it). The Netflix series do the latter (though subplots do exist they're typically used for contrast + theme) and that makes them funner to pick apart and analyze.

>. It was mostly generic government conspiracy drama bullshit,
I thought it was an huge part of the Punisher comics. How many soldiers has he killed in the comics?

Jesus Christ, Lieberman, what the fuck have you been eating?

>Scott Buck detected.

I hope all the Inhumans backlash finally gets this guy banned from working on Marvel shows (and being a showrunner in general).

This show was great. It showed a lot of love and understanding of the character. The writers here managed to turn revenge porn for angry folks into something I'd call art. The show handled themes of loss and the trauma brought about by violence with utmost precision. I don't know what more you guys want, you can't make a show about a guy just shooting street thugs.

It's actually two Lieberman in a single costume.

The only other live action version of Punisher i've seen is the Thomas Jane version which was better in my opinion.

Then you don't get the character.

It was great, it was way more rooted in the drama aspect than I expected though, though there would be more action/shooting in general with how cheap and easy it is to do with guns these days.

I liked they were smart enough to keep Billy alive.

His female fans will depart quite rapidly though

>His female fans will depart quite rapidly though
Are you kidding? Female fan come for the prettyboy face, but they stay for the dark and tortured soul only them can understand.

They will come back tenfold.

I can't get the thought of Claude Frollo being Billy Russo out of my head.

The show only makes 2 mistakes.
1. being pretty goddamn boring at parts
2. Putting a face on the people who killed his family/ making him more like jason bourne than Frank castle

It's a good, tight 8-episode story stretched over 13 episodes.

see

>instead embracing his war didn't have any negative consequences
people will always now use him as an excuse for doing shit like shooting up people, that's a pretty fucking big consequence.

>Frank grinding Russos face into the glass
felt pride