Why do Superman fight scenes suck so much?

Something I observed during Man of Steel way back was how "boring", for lack of a better word, the fight scenes seemed. I guess part of it is that Superman doesn't know how to fight (which always puzzled me - other heroes, like Spider-Man and Flash, despite being ordinary civilians getting powers, always seemed to be more proficient from the get-go) but it still feels really fucking bad and it doesn't help that Snyder held back on all of the coolest kryptonian powers because they were too lame or some inane logic like that.

The thing is, this just isn't limited to Man of Steel only. Most action scenes involving Superman are often dull as shit and I keep wondering how would it be possible to fix that. Do you just need someone with a good understanding of how to structure an action scene like George Miller or Martin Campbell and a decent idea on how to creatively exploit Superman's powers? Or is it just fundamentally impossible.

For comparison look at something like the Avatar series, where characters like Aang and Korra are frequently borderline invincible yet the action scenes are always pretty cool. Hell, they even managed to structure a pretty good Superman-esque fight scene with Zaheer and Korra at the end of Book 3, even if everything else about it sucked.

You know, I totally disagree with you user. His action scenes are great and I liked the raw power that you could feel in the fight scenes. I don't think you get such a sense of that sheer physical power from any other character.

Though I think there could be some more clever uses of his powers in the movies.
>Whip up a cloud of dust/fly into the darkness.
>Show him using his supersenses while the other guy is left blind and flailing.

>Heat vison
>Freeze breath
>going through the earth and bursting up through the ground, so they dont see him coming
>Some dogfight style sky chases.

The only problem with his scenes is that Snyder really doesn't seem to know how to show damage on super strong people. They were smashing against each other and seemingly doing nothing to each other until the grab at the end.

>Do you just need someone with a good understanding of how to structure an action scene like George Miller or Martin Campbell and a decent idea on how to creatively exploit Superman's powers?
I think it's mostly this. The problem with Snyder's fights is that they're just slugfests. There's little good choreography or cleverness or even little details to make them interesting. You can do all those things even if the principal character supposedly doesn't know how to fight.

Which is kind of weird because Snyder was known for weird and inventive uses of the camera, and I'm not sure why he didn't use it in MoS or BvS.

This is why its so boring. You don't get whats going on, when its going to end, whats the characters are feeling or if they are hurt...
The batman fight vs thug in BvS was better since you can see batman having more and more trouble the longer the fight goes.

>I don't think you get such a sense of that sheer physical power from any other character.

Superman fight scenes were just typical punch guy punch brawls before animes built the popular visual lexicon we now expect for beyond human beings to use when fighting one another.

Why do you think people in the 90s thougth Goku could bitch slap Superman? Because the visuals were just so much more appealing and developed. When Superman punched someone it was just a punch. You were then told that punch contained the force a thousand suns or something. They'd use text to put in the sci-fi spin to supe up superman.

>I liked the raw power that you could feel in the fight scenes. I don't think you get such a sense of that sheer physical power from any other character.

I was impressed too, the first time I saw it (Faora and Nam-Ek kicking Superman's ass in Smallville) but the novelty of watching Superman's punches create sonic booms wore off real fast.

Yeah, I found it weird too. Take a look at something like Sucker Punch, which was bad but the fight scenes were batshit insane in a good way. Then take something like Man of Steel or Batman v. Superman, where the action almost feels sterilized. Even the much lauded warehouse fight scene with Batman was honestly kind of shit the first time I saw it, Batman felt more like a muscled brute than a skilled martial artist.

One of my favorite S&S Superman stories, and one the editirs apparently liked as well given it was reprinted in Superman #3, was Action Comics #5. The finale of the story, where Clark dives into a torrent of water, pulls Lois out of a car, swims out, dashes around the circumference of the flood, leaps to a cliff, and heaves a massive chunk of rock between the water and the city as a makeshift dam.

Shuster's pencils aren't very good, but Siegel does an incredible job describing the event and pacing the action. You need someone capable of that kind of direction.

Yeah for sure. The developments in CGI and such (inb4 shitposting) let you do a much more impressive superman on screen. comics have no excuse.

>Superman fight scenes were just typical punch guy punch brawls before animes built the popular visual lexicon we now expect for beyond human beings to use when fighting one another.
Those anime were based on Japanese comics, which inherited that from American animation and Golden Age comics.

It's just exaggerating the fundamentals.

>warehouse scene
>Bats didn't feel like a martial artist

Holy shit, have you ever seen a martial artist actually fight? There's at least two fighting styles in that scene and you're saying that he fought like a brute? The sheer ignorance and stupidity of people in this thread is crazy. At this point, I think that some people are only trying to be contrarian for the sake of it.

The warehouse scene showcased three things: Batman's combat abilities, use of tools and ability to adapt to all kinds of situations. You guys are used to over-the-top jumping and crazy kicks etc when Batman fighting showed the actual skills and strength involved in fighting. Matrix fights aren't really the norm in real life

>Holy shit, have you ever seen a martial artist actually fight?
user said "felt like," you moron. They're saying that, compared to Sucker Punch, it felt less deliberate and more like a slugfest, not that martial arts weren't on display.

>At this point, I think that some people are only trying to be contrarian for the sake of it.
The fucking irony.

Superman had great fight scenes in this little movie starring Kevin Spacey

Do you know how I know that you've never done a martial art in your life?

Batman v. Superman's warehouse scene was the definition of a one-note punchfest. Dudes flying twenty meters after getting barely kicked by Affleck struggling to raise one leg off the ground makes that fight scene laughable. There was no skill involved, I've seen more finesse and ability in a Steven Seagal action movie.

Batman literally lets a dude shoot him in the head and shrugs it off. There is zero skill and ability to adapt in that scene.

I think you mean a short action sequence.

>The only problem with his scenes is that Snyder really doesn't seem to know how to show damage on super strong people.

Create sonic booms and quakes that wreck the entire neighbourhood? I thought people hated "destruction porn"

>ITT people think video game martial arts would look good in film.

I don't see anyone claiming that.

He was talking about showing and having damage done to SUPER-STRONG PEOPLE, you nigger.

Invulnerability comes with super strength, otherwise you'd be a bloody pulp with first punch and it'd be R-rated gore.

If Superman is strong enough to snap Zod's neck then he should've been strong enough to give out some bruises and black eyes. Or even draw some blood. Or even choke out Zod.

There were multiple scenes like the plane, him flying through saving daily planet and him fighting lex's goons saving the family a bunch

And he made use of his hearing powers pretty well and flight

That's not how it works even in comics 99% of the time.

I don't mind Supes getting bruised or bleeding, happened in the DCAU all the time.

>I guess part of it is that Superman doesn't know how to fight

That's because he was never trained and never actually fought anybody before. MoS literally beats you over the head with that concept over and over again throughout the first half of the movie. It's mind-boggling that you completely missed that point.

As for Clark, it's actually impressive that he was able to stand his own against trained soldiers like Faora and Zod.

I didn't miss the point, you faggot, I wasn't even addressing that except in the context that it might have been part of the reason why the fight scenes sucked so much.

It was also stupid that Zod and company were somehow suddenly as powerful as Clark despite being on Earth for only a short period of time. He should've outclassed them, logically.

Only Zod was shown to approach Clark's power, you faggot, the other goons were still incapable of flight and still had to wear the helmet thing. Zod even says so much that he was genetically bred to be in control of his senses which explains why he got used to Earth's atmosphere so fast, but Clark is powerful because he's been growing up an Earth. There's even a scene in which Zod starts focusing his senses to do just that.

Furthermore, when Clark boards the Krip ship, he loses consciousness and becomes weak and after the Jor-El program takes over the ship and makes the atmosphere more like Earth's, Clark regains his powers almost immediately so it stands to reason that Krip physiology only takes but a moment to get used to the difference in atmospheres.

For a movie trying to be so realistic and gritty, they would have been smart to show more wear and tear on the kryptonians as the fight went on. DBZ has similar fights but even Goku gets bruised up and his lips bloodied, as it was in MoS it just felt like two action figures being smashed together with no effect.

The whole scene sucks conceptually for many other reasons though.

Man of Steel and Wonder Woman have the only good fight scenes in the DCEU. Fight me.

>Only Zod was shown to approach Clark's power

Yeah, which is why every other Kryptonian could match him in strength and speed, amirite?

>Furthermore, when Clark boards the Krip ship, he loses consciousness and becomes weak and after the Jor-El program takes over the ship and makes the atmosphere more like Earth's

God, that scene was dumb as shit. Every kryptonian on that ship should've had superpowers at that point but Hack Snyder can't into logical filmmaking.

If you notice superman's fights always just have him ram into something at high speed. In the movies he's not a good fighter but a controlled bullet running into things and uses eye lazers once in a while.
They could give him better fight scenes but all they know is to have him ram into shit.

>MoS Superman had raw power but lack the experience.You can see his open guard when fighting kryptonians
>JL Superman clearly knows how to throw punches and he land some powerfull punches.He has a closer guard and can land more punches with his super speed

user,Superman fought against beings closer to his power levels for the first time in his life,of course he is gonna suck.But you can see he got better in fight since you can see him delivering some good punches.

Don't expect Superman to fight like a human would,his fight style consists in using all of his powers in a way that fits in a combat.

>Yeah, which is why every other Kryptonian could match him in strength and speed, amirite?
Not an argument. As already explained, Zod and (most of) his cronies are trained soldiers. Clark is not. Zod even monologues as such during his fight with him.

>God, that scene was dumb as shit.
I agree that it was stupid, but it was consistent. Clark being Earth-raised can regain his strength in the Earth atmosphere quicker than the Krips who were forced to wear their breather/helmet thing.

It took years for Clarks powers to manifest on earthm and it was a painful fucking experience. Being immediatly subjected to them all at once woudl be pure agony.

No taste

My main problem with Superman's fights in these movies is that no one ever shows any signs of damage, even when they're taking blows that are supposed to concuss them. Faora takes a Maverick to the face that knocks her out for several minutes, an event that would imply serious injury in real life, and it didn't even smudge her eyeshadow. Superman and Zod punch the fuck out of each other, but they just go flying around without any signs of harm, like they're in a bouncy house, without even a hair getting knocked out of place. Superman blitzes Doomsday and punches him into space, then undergoes orbital reentry, then zips back again and punches him into an oil refinery that explodes, only for Doomsday to jump out and punch him halfway across the island, yet neither are remotely bothered by any of this until they bring out tactical nukes and kryptonite.

Give him a fucking bleeding lip or signs of pain/a concussion, or at least show him as out of breath.

Brainiac can penetrate Superman's skin with his fucking fingernails, yet Man of Necksnap can't get a bruise on Zod or make him woozy with a punch? Fuck off.

What issue is that from?

>Superman had low solar energy during this fight

Action Comic 866:Braniac Part 1,Part 2 and Part 3

Thanks, I wanted to check on the context of that page, because I suspected that there was more to it than what user was saying.