How would you make Joker a sympathetic villain?

How would you make Joker a sympathetic villain?

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I wouldn't.

Rape him

make him Bruce's sidekick

>Non-edgy as possble and the story allows
>only kills when it's funny (like it always was intended to)
>less crazy, more mobster, but a crazy mobster
>has a more dramatic, tragic side (sad clown) that he hides
>make him actually funny

Make him a victim of rape.

Stop, Jim.

>only kills when it's funny (like it always was intended to)
He was a mass murderer in literally his first appearance

Make him sane for a day.

all of these and
>actually make him insane, not just CRAZY EEEVUHL ie show him being not entirely in control of his actions and occasionally disgusted at his mental condition

Why in gods name would we do that? Feels like every villain that reaches high popularity needs to become sympathetic so autists can self insert or something. Moreover, isn't his possible origin tragic enough in it of itself?

Read White Knight

>raping intensifies

FPBP
Not every villain has to be a sympathetic character, and Joker is fine the way he is.

so like Jack Nicholson played him?

Really?
Wasn't he a joke villain

First of all, use funny practical jokester silver age Joker, not edgelord Joker.
Second of all, have some edgelord anti-hero break his arms and legs, castrate him, beat him within an inch of his life, and slice/stitch his face into a permanent frown. Let that Joker recover, he'll still attempt villainy, but as the Joke. He staggers around like a pathetic cripple, and his disposition is that of a nervous child trying to use humor to hide his insecurities.

That's edgy

But not edgy enough for modern comics.

Make him team up with other villains who he's just as likely to doublecross at the last minute because it's even funnier than fucking over Batman.

Came here just to post that.

I opened this thread for the explicit purpose of making this exact post.

Hahaha, look at the silly joke villain

He only kills when it's funny! The joke is that he KILLED him!

Might've been self-defense though. There are two sides to every story.

Wow. You actually made me feel sorry for Joker.

Why do villains need to be sympathetic

Joker isn't a villain. He's just a man who never got the help he so sorely needs.

It would need it to be his first person perspective, play up the "broken madman lashing out" angle, maybe a shot in the mirror where he's "applying make up" with his horror at his face.

he has been sympathetic many times already...the face doesn't help kek

There's no reason for him to be. It's just not his character. Imagine if Azula was a sympathetic villain. She wouldn't be nearly as iconic or interesting.

Isn’t he already?

>Azula was a sympathetic villain

Azula wasn't the villain, Ozai was and if you weren't sympathetic to Azula's plight, then you are a coldhearted bastard.

Genuine mental illness.

>Joker
>sympathetic

this is the worst way to do Joker. He's Batman's main villain because he lives to fuck with Batman. This is why The Dark Knight made it obvious that his "sympathetic backstory" was just constant bullshitting.

The only people who like sadJoker have their dicks hard for The Killing Joke, which is probably the most overrated volume

She's a genuine, legitimate psychopath and would've been killed off if it wasn't a kid's show.

something something mad dog something something owner's responsibility something something still put it down

>Joker
>sympathetic

Thats the stupidest thing I've ever heard.

fpbp

>which is probably the most overrated volume

I'm glad I'm not the only one who thinks that.

Your life is the stupidest thing I've heard. Dumb tripfag.

Here's a better question

Can they ever pull Joker back from his current status as basically a war criminal?

Because as it stands, people are going to keep asking "Why doesn't SOMEONE kill him?" every time he shows up. He makes Batman look like an ineffectual goober and his continued existence can't be explained without breaking the fourth wall ("He sells too well to die") or some toplogical meta shit that makes him seem like he should be in the Phantom Zone ("He's a metaphysical embodiment of Gotham's darkness and he can never die/he'd just be replaced by something worse/you kill him you become him/You kill him he splits into a million pieces and each one grows until a full sized Joker/etc")

Even in Dark Knight he wasn't this bad. He threatened a hell of a bunch of people, but ultimately only ended up killing a handful of crooks, some dirty cops, and Rachel. Comics Joker would scoff at such a paltry bodycount.

But user, this chart tells me that makes him mediocre.

You suicide his actor.

Literally fucking how?

That chart is bs. According to it the fucking Emoji movie had an "elder god" villain character.

He was a good boy being manipulated by a bad bitch,

Except we see her on different occasions show emotion and genuinely wants to be loved.

>if you aren't sympathetic for a psychotic, selfish, murderous bitch you're coldhearted

you sound like a typical roastie

>Joker
>afraid of being shot
>Frank
>giving a speech before he shoots some criminal dipshit in the head

crossover issues are garbage

Except she is none of those things you dumb bastard.

Was Harley at Arkham in this?

It's already been done. Moore did a fantastic job, but I feel like the Joker is fairly easy to make sympathetic.

An actually hard one would be fucking Professor Pyg, who is LEAGUES worse than the Joker.

Bad people don't deserve to get put down because of some abstract notion of evil that implies a lack of humanity

They deserve to get put down when they do bad things, are unrepentant about it, and have no intention of ever voluntarily stopping

There is unironically zero reason for the joker to not get the death sentence, or just be snyder'd by batman. "Hurr if I kill this madman terrorizing gothan I BECOME the madman" L

Also Pyg is supposed to evoke the Joker anyway, as well as Mad Dog Hawkins.

Joker's bodycount is actually fairly low compared to IRL serial killers who didn't get the death penalty. He may even be under 100 kills in the new 52.

He's already plenty sympathetic
>Failed comedian resorts to crime to support pregnant wife
>wife dies in accident
>Forced to do heist or die
>Batman shows up
>Turned into clown monster
Joker's just as much a victim of Gotham as Batman is

>if you aren't sympathetic for a psychotic, selfish, murderous bitch you're coldhearted
>psychotic
She's gleeful as a child at the idea of her brother being murdered
>selfish
All she wants is personal power. She has no caring for anyone, including her father
>murderous
She desperately wants to kill both Iroh and Zuco, and nearly everyone else she comes across.

>or just be snyder'd by batman. "Hurr if I kill this madman terrorizing gothan I BECOME the madman" L
That isn't the reason Snyder gives. The reason Snyder gives is that Batman is superstitious about something worse coming in the Joker's wake. While I don't agree with Snyder's reasoning ("murder is wrong period" I think is a far more compelling and moral reason, and simper too) it does make a certain level of sense as far as vacuums of power are concerned.

Lies by the Joker.

He'll be plenty sympathetic after batman rapes him.
Maybe not so much a villain.

Azula is not interesting in the first place anyway.

>They deserve to get put down when they do bad things, are unrepentant about it, and have no intention of ever voluntarily stopping

Except we are talking about a child here who has only known what her father taught her.

She only does that to get love from the only person who shows some interest in her, her father.

>J-Joker isn't that bad, nobody would ever kill him
I think /x/ is more your speed joker

That's not what I'm saying really. The guy is a big deal but he's not killing thousands every week like people seem to believe.

>oker's bodycount is actually fairly low compared to IRL serial killers
Please be bait.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_serial_killers_by_number_of_victims
>He may even be under 100 kills in the new 52.
Please be motherfucking bait.
Literally his first appearance in Nu52

It's just the joker shitposting

Even Alan Moore thinks it's overrated. Any self-respecting artist admits their earlier work embarasses them, and The Killing Joke is pretty shite by Moore's standards.

>>Joker
>>afraid of being shot
I mean, yeah. He doesn't wanna die at the hands of somebody other than Batman, and really, how often does someone other than a Gotham cop train a gun on him?

back to tumblr, you unloved girl

Joker wakes up, sputtering and shocked.
Constantine and Lucifer talking over his head "might not be worth the trouble", etc.
"What was that?" Joker
"You were in hell. We brought you back" Lucifer
Joker reframes his world view. World is still funny, but he doesn't want anyone to go to hell.
"Why have you brought me back?"
"After killing you, Batman went mad. He's taken over Gotham with an iron fist. He and Harley Quinn are now at war. They use magic, kryptonite and sci fi blah blah to keep other heros away. You are our only hope!"
Joker tones down his joker venom, so instead of killing people, it just incapacitates them for an hour in uncontrollable laughter.

Shenanigans ensue!

>villains who just for power
>shit tier
I don't know, I think there's something badass about a guy who just woke up one day and decided "I'm gonna do whatever I want, and I'm not gonna let anyone or anything tell me no".

By killing his retarded fans that think he is a good character.

Let's not forget how much Punisher's gun hand is trembling there.

Yes.

It's not, it's his ki energy flowing

>people unironically watched the emoji movie

This basically means that Venom is a better villain than Carnage, which is bullshit.

Make him an anti-establishment antihero who is trying to reveal the hypocrisy of the system through practical jokes on a devastating scale.

Of course, in order to make him sympathetic at all, you have to do away with the 'random killing for fun' angle, which is probably impossible at this stage.

ALTERNATELY, make him truly, recognizably insane, but then you have to show his tragic past which drove him over the edge so that nothing matters anymore and whenever he is not laughing at the havoc he is causing, he is actually crying, like Garick.

Yeah... a 9-millimeter aspirin.

Honestly, was ever plot armor so abused as with this man? Can we please have a revelation at some point that the Joker and Batman are avatars of two chaos/order gods or something. It's the only thing that can justify their continued survival at this point.

"I-I just never thought - "
"YOU THOUGHT IT WAS BECAUSE YOU ARE JUST THAT GOOD? ARE YOU RETARDED?"

In that one he was until you remember he crippled, traumatized and possibly raped an innocent young woman just to make a point.

Which, admittedly, is how I think the Joker should be: the guy who does awful things to make either a point or a funny joke. His ultimate goal: Make Batman laugh at something terrible.

Even Alan Moore thinks that.

Disagree. It would be fitting that the most terrible person you can imagine deep inside them has something you can relate to, because that makes it even worse.

The whole point he was trying to make in 'The Killing Joke' was that "There, but for the grace of God, go I" - which, when you think about it, is actually correct; after all, Batman's response to his trauma isn't really any more sane.

...Funny how they never did anything with the Endless, and it turns out the Endless Batman has the strongest connection to isn't Death or Dream, but Delusion; like Norton I, his madness is what keeps him sane.

Disagree again! Carnage is just a spree killer who got power.

Venom is much more complicated. The symbiote and Eddie are like a really sick couple who both, ultimately, want to do good now that they are over their revengeboner for Spider-Man, but somehow always end up doing bad.

You misunderstand villains bro, they are supposed to be hated.

This implies Freeze is better than Riddler or Two-Face. A notion I strongly dislike.

Wrong pic...

>Godzilla is a better villain than the Joker
Skreeongkek

>My opinions are facts

No.

Dunk him in the Lazarus pit again

Who would you rather see get TKO'd, webbed up, and sent to prison? A misunderstood man who's entire life was ruined in one fell swooce, or a trailer trash asshole who kills people because it makes him feel good?

Anybody remember that thread where Joker was Bruce's friend and neither became what they ended up as? Something like that.

Something like the return of Bruce as Batman in Snyder's comic when Bloom was fucking up Gotham. That nice moment with Joker and Bruce on the bench. Joker really didn't want them to go back to the way things were.

"Who would you rather see go to prison" is not the only aspect of a villain, user.

I know, but it's pretty important. It's the thing that separates the Rhino from the Green Goblin.

>>only kills when it's funny
>>(like it always was intended to)
Nope, try again.

Actually, I kind of like the idea of a story where Harley goes to war with Batman after Batman "kills" the Joker (whether it was Batman, or whether the Joker is actually dead can be a fun twist).

Could give Harley a good story where she rallies together a bunch of Gotham's villains.

EXACTLY.
While I used the TKJ backstory as a basis for an idea I had for a draft (my dream is making films one day, and my extra dream is make a good batman movie lol) is that Joker is mentally ill as fuck but extra unhinged because of his own bitterness, his extreme nihilism + mental instability is a horrible combo.

Joker has moments in which his illness doesn’t let him function, such as hallucinations, hearing voices that bully him, mood swings, panic attacks, anxiety, etc.
I always found it extremely stupid to write a character “oh well he’s insane” and never show the debilitating side of mental illness. The Joker somehow doesn’t suffer any negative side effects of his supposed mental illnesses.

My idea is:
-he is very theatrical, artistic and refined. But the man also loves 30s and 40s cartoons, going as far as stealing actual old tapes for fun and because he is a fan.
- Joker is the type who maniacally drives extremely valuable cars he stole into crashing in the most ridiculous ways possible, calling these events of destruction “The comical side of life, ey Batsy?”

-Joker is so unstable that when he wants to do charitable things, he fucks them up horribly. Such as making orphans cry on stage because he Joker gased the audience when they booed at the orphans for not being good actors.

-Joker is petty and retaliates in disproportionate ways to the point of absurdity.

- he makes sure to murder in elaborate ways that you’d find ironic or just embarrassing.

- Is not a wife beater, but is still negligent and dismissive of Harley, only looking after himself. Is fond of her like a pet he forgets to tend to. Cannot love, too far gone for that to be remotely possible.

Read Killing Joke, it's the closest you're gonna get. I guess his cameo in Superheavy made you feel a bit of sympathy too.

Joker can be redeemed and join the Justice League like Lex, Captain Cold, Lobo, Killer Frost, and Doomsday.

you just described Brian Azzarello's Joker
kinda

i really curious if someone really made porn out of this idea

Are you fucking kidding me?
He is one of the most edgy non funny joker I've ever seen or read.