Toffee killed Moon's mom

>Toffee killed Moon's mom
>so at the start of the series he was strong enough to kill an adult Butterfly
>then he spent a season gaining even more magic to the point it was fucking magic on a cosmic scale
>then Star dies and comes back with a Butterfly form which somehow gives her enough power to instantly kill Toffee
Is this considered good writing by starfags?

It's a bit more complicated than that, for instance Toffee had a monster army when he killed Star's grandma. While he did have access to what seems like all magic once he corrupted it, Star's natural aptitude for raw magic, which has been shown consistently throughout the series, allowed her to dig deep enough to find the remaining magic and rebirth it. What she actually did while in the magic world isn't clear until one of the more recent episodes where it's shown that Star actually had to completely reform magic in her form. That might be why she's so powerful in her butterfly form.
Then again I do agree with your obvious bait to some extent, it was a bit of an asspull, but I've had so many cartoons through deus ex machinas at me, this one didn't seem too bad. It at least had a little build up

We don't really know the exact circumstances behind him killing the previous queen. He could've backstabbed her, or ambushed her, or hacked her to bits with an axe while "Hip to be Square" played, who knows

He's clearly not fucking dead. What are you, retarded?

>Toffee had a monster army when he killed Star's grandma
Mooks have never mattered in Star and never will.
>Star's natural aptitude for raw magic, which has been shown consistently throughout the series, allowed her to dig deep enough to find the remaining magic and rebirth it
Yeah Star is more powerful than the Magic High Commission and she's able to undo in seconds what took Toffee months. Great writing.

so why is eclipsa running around? contract (freedom if enemy is dead) and all that jazz.

toffee enacted vegeta's namek plan (immortal, eventually wear out frieza)?

>smart villain get outsmarted by old wise wizard using the main character as a secret weapon
Just like Star wars, lord of the rings,king arthur,Harry potter etc

He made sure to weaken the crystals before so his near death would be enough to free her.

He kills star's grandma.
Moon makes a deal with eclipsa.
Moon castrate toffee in front of its army, everyone runs in fear, disabling all military power he had.
For decades, he does nothing(probably scheming?)until knocks at Ludo's door.
Long ass plan includes getting himself killed to merge with the wand.
He actually never killed star, he just trapped her in whatever astral plane the magic of the wand is stored.
All of the above just to recover his finger, I'm still not sure what was his end game, it was probably his favorite finger?

>He is the lich but worse
>somehow this is good writing
Why he was only for season finale time?
Why not build a character/make him even more interesting?

>Yeah Star is more powerful than the Magic High Commission and she's able to undo in seconds what took Toffee months
Well yeah, they literally say she's one of the most powerful magic users since Eclipsa, who's most basic magic spells were shown to be easily capable of damaging if not outright killing Toffee even when used by someone like Moon.

Toffee's death was anti-climactic as fuck, but Star being able to kill him isn't really that inconsistent with what's already been established.

What happened with the Lich

It was implied that they will explore his relationship with eclipsa.

i'm tired so here's this,you even said it so gonna say it again and sorry if i sound repetitive.
Having an unhealing wound on the general of an army where he and others like him,practically immortal crocodiles who made for the not hidden ace that made normal monster feel safe and sure of their victory in a war as long as history, would destroy any power or influence so to get the finger was to get an army and finally turn mewmanity into beautifull vibrant red paint for the reborn monster kingdom
>the fastest way to depose a ruler is to destroy their credibility
-Marco Diaz

To use a Dungeons and Dragons analogy, Toffee made a 3.5 trick build using an obscure third-party splat only for Star to switch the game to 5th edition.

Nothing, Lich is just a bland character without development because he is " force of nature lel, he always existed".

can't beat em? change the game.

The difference is in all those cases the heroes victory was built on previous plot threads and had a certain bitterness to it. Star just pulled a powerup out of her ass and everything's fine.

He was still alive before Ludo dropped the pillar on him, do you really think that killed him? And as for Eclipsa, she made the contract with Moon, not Toffee, so how would it know he was dead if it didn't work off of what Moon believed.

>Star to switch the game to 5th edition
So Star was the true villain all along.

Well they did hint that Star was stronger than her mother and had untapped potential from the Baby episode.

A Butterfly is not a super-powered being. It's evident that all Mewnians are as mortal as Earthlings.

Despite that, it might have been an assassination.

>bad guy is built up as an unstoppable force
>good guy pulls through and saves the day
>Is this considered good writing by "...."?

Luke didn't become God and slay the Emperor, he was saved because his father regained his humanity.
Harry didn't become God and defeat Voldemort. Neville killed the last Horcrux, Draco's mom lied about Harry being dead, the wand rebelled against Voldemort and so on.
Gollum saved middle earth.

Star became a God because plot and defeated a villain that all the most powerful magic users in the world were unable to defeat.

Apparently it is to Starfags considering how many of them are defending it.

>hurr durr how does the protagonist, who has been shown to be just as strong as one of the strongest characters in the series, defeat the villain?

Why are you a dumbass, lad?

its outright stated that star is better with magic than both her mother and grandmother were at her age so it shouldnt be that surprising that she would be more powerful than them in super butterfly form. I don't know if I would go as far as to call it good writing but we are talking about a magical girl cartoon on disney here and at the very least its consistent with what's been shown.

>Toffee killed Moon's mom
>so at the start of the series he was strong enough to kill an adult Butterfly
There are magic users other than Moon's mom, and they could potentially one-shot or, much more commonly, imprison him with a spell.
>then he spent a season gaining even more magic to the point it was fucking magic on a cosmic scale
He was corrupting the Realm of Magic and had absorbed magic from specific individuals in a fight.
Nothing suggest he was a magic user when he killed Moon's mom. Uncle Lump is a Johansen barbarian, not a Butterfly, by the way.
>then Star dies and comes back with a Butterfly form which somehow gives her enough power to instantly kill Toffee
Star didn't exactly die, as she ended up in the Realm of Magic, instead of the afterlife, thanks to the Whispering Spell.
She killed Toffee through applying the spell Moon tried -- or more simply was able to blow him away because he was goop rather than his regular body, didn't use magic to protect himself from magic attacks & had presumably left the RoM.
Hitting a small rock with a really big rock should break it.

>Star became a God because plot and defeated a villain that all the most powerful magic users in the world were unable to defeat.
There's like 2 (Elipsa, Glossaryck) magic users the show hasn't presented Star as definitely being more powerful than.
And she "became God" in the same way he did: 'Get in where the magic is with the Whispering Spell and use it.'

>toffee contaminated the entire plain of magic
>star creates a guardian for the plain of magic and manages to convert all of the magic contained within it from toffee's power to her power
>this allows her to destroy toffee
seems fine to me

>"he had access to all magic"
Pretty much the instant he reforms himself he doesn't have magic anymore, apart from his regeneration.

Star being able to melt him to where he couldn't recover isn't THAT huge a powerup.

It's a children's cartoon. Why are you looking for some kind of deep lore or meaning?

Yes, that is what I hope to find

>Implying children's cartoons can't be deep.

>magic has been established to take time to learn and make
>mc has been making up spells randomly left and right from the start
>with horrible to mixed results due to trial and error
>mc had been told they are a prodigy
>has been told thier power level equal to another powerful user
>mc has been taught to use their potential to its fullest, and has done so under extreme stress before even being taught
>mc figures out bbeg trick
>bbeg leaves in james bond villian fashion
>mc in a callback to a previous lesson, dips into the deepest pool of magic left untouched
>people STILL think this wasnt buildt up AT ALL

igg shigg diggity

Not every cartoon is Steven Universe level.

t. SU and ATfags whose MCs are still giant powerless cucks who cry about their problems.

Now that’s some wrong opinion, it makes me laugh

Nobody thought Toffee's defeat was good writing. It was a complete waste of an amazing villain.

Hey, Comet. Do you like huey lewis and the news?

...

I think Toffees death was rigged. He was too sure of himself when dying. His monster temple headquarters was the place where Eclipsa raised her child. One of his septarian people is guarding Eclipsas daughter. And he somehow knows all spells from Eclipsas forbidden chapter.

He wanted to be whole to finger Eclipsa

??

kek

this is good.

>so at the start of the series he was strong enough to kill an adult Butterfly
Mewmans aren't fucking Kryptonians.
All it would have took was one good swing from that sickle of his.

>then he spent a season gaining even more magic to the point it was fucking magic on a cosmic scale
The Whispering Spell dropped his soul into the Realm of Magic. He wasn't causing havoc across the universe by casting grand-scale magic, he simply tainted it at its source and let the poison flow.

>then Star dies and comes back with a Butterfly form which somehow gives her enough power to instantly kill Toffee
Star also blew herself up with the Whispering Spell, and also got dropped into the Realm of Magic. She then "drowned" in the corrupted magic and somehow ended up even deeper down the rabbit hole, where according to Glossarcyk nobody else had ever been before.
Star essentially Dipped Down deeper than anyone ever had, reversing Toffee's corruption to restore the Realm of Magic in her own image, and used her brief access to the source of all magic in the universe to fucking obliterate him. Which still didn't kill him outright.

>Is this considered good writing by starfags?
Considering the entire scene was basically the payoff for the entire past season of suffering and the reward for Star's personal growth and development resulting from that, and was resolved not through an asspull but simply through Star finally understanding the lesson Glossarcyk tried to teach her in the season's first episode, it was a pretty cool scene yeah.
Toffeefag tears make it all the sweeter.

I do wish there was an episode-long battle with Toffee. I do wish he got a massive Megazord form made out of corrupted magic in the real world, Oropo style. I do wish we got a proper climax after all the build-up. But noooooooo...

A "real" battle would have ended the same way.
Star stopped fighting monsters in Season 1 because they stopped being a credible threat to her.
Toffee was more a plotter than a fighter. He wasn't dumb enough to try to actually fight a Butterfly again. He tried to scheme his way to certain victory and he basically did win, he just fell victim to the classic flaw of pride and gloating, leaving Star to drown in despair in the sea of magic instead of snuffing her out when he literally had her in his grasp. And he was foolish enough to believe Glossarcyk would actually die when he killed him, and that he didn't "have a side."

>I do wish we got a proper climax after all the build-up
How was it not a proper climax? Pretty much every plotline the show had going besides the romance stuff was resolved.

>personal growth and development
pulling magical forms out of your ass in a pinch is development now?

>How was it not a proper climax?
A 5-second energy blast vs. a proper battle with choreography and creativity.

Christ, is that so hard to understand? I don't want my plate to only have one bean on it when I was expecting a full dish after being told how great a restaurant is for months.

Well, it's still better than Marvel comics that consider cutting your hair, becoming a lesbian and covering your body personal development.

>pulling magical forms out of your ass
So are you shitting on a show you don't watch or are you just retarded?

Star didn't kill Toffee. She blasted him into a half melted mess. Then Ludo killed him. Which was hilarious.

This isn't Dragon Ball Z, my dude
Star vs is a character-driven comedy-drama. The climactic scene was Moon and Marco's reaction to Star's death, juxtaposed with Star's confrontation with Glossarcyk and epiphany about Dipping Down.
Achieving her Butterfly form was the validation of her personal transformation from the spastic kid we knew in Season 1 to the young woman trying to carry her kingdom on her shoulders she's become in Season 3.

TL;DR if you've watched past Season 1 and still think this is an action show you're sorely mistaken.

From what little was described of it in "Moon the Undaunted" we know that Toffee murdered Moon's mother at the peace negotiation with the monster king. So backstabbing her is by far the most likely scenario.

Toffee being alive before Ludo pushed over the pillar to crush him doesn't mean Toffee wasn't already DYING. His regeneration was no longer working and he and he was falling apart.

Star gained that power the same way Toffee gained his: directly entering the source of magic and personally altering it to suit her needs.

He'll be back

Shaman King rules man.
More times you """""die"""""" stronger you become.

Who was fourth edition, then?

Is that exactly what Star always does?

The golden butterfly form is an asspull I agree, as even Moon cant do that.

Pretty much. Tom and Marco had a conversation all about that in Mr. Candle Cares.

>Toffee was strong enough to kill an adult butterfly
>He gets almost completely obliterated and sucked into a destroyed magic wand, to the point that he needs to use the most pathetic character in the show as a vessel
>His presence in the magic has drained all the magic from the world, Toffee gains nothing, there's just no magic now.
>Star uses the last little bit of magic he missed and her own innate magical talent to create a fuckload of magic and use that to defeat him

How the fuck does that not make sense? Toffee wasn't trying to make himself stronger, he was trying to destroy all magic so no one would be able to oppose him.

Well Moon didn't create all of the universe's magic. Did you miss that part? Where Star is literally the mother of magic now? All magic in the universe post Toffee's defeat stems from her.

You know star isn't allowed to be portrayed in any kind of negative light

Ok thats just stupid.

>All magic in the universe post Toffee's defeat stems from her.
She purified the magic realm - she didn't recreate it.

Pretty much the same thing. The unicorn in season 3 even said as much.

Was the wand a plot device to prevent Star from being OP?

The golden form is just her complete Mewberty state like Moon, the purple one was just the initial one

>Pretty much the same thing
No it's not

>Show says so vs some random fucking user says so

Gee, which one should I believe?

And Sup Forums actually thinks star isn't a mary sue

Toffee was such a waste of fucking time.

>Mysterious greater evil villain takes over
>Constant theme of "you have no idea how dangerous he is" floating around him
>Toffee has incredible knowledge in the art of magic beyond any other nemesis
>Hints at a connection between Moon and Toffee
>Toffee can regenerate in ways that seem unique to him
>Tapestry shows a badass showdown between Moon and Toffee in a war

>Toffee's past with Moon is revealed
>Just an evil general who is a lizard
>Loses really fast and just leaves
>He knows magic because background studying

>>Toffee's past with Moon is revealed
>>Just an evil general who is a lizard
>>Loses really fast and just leaves
>>He knows magic because background studying
All of that is result of poor writing rather than poor characterizaion

How can you seriously think Toffee is completely done after last episode

It actually makes sense that she could undo it instantly because it was literally magic, and what Toffee was trying to avoid. All it took was the desire for magic to be completely restored and the ability to make that happen through dipping down.

The entire Toffee plot is him realizing Mewmans are ridiculously OP and can do literally anything as long as they have magic on their side, and so thus trying to remove that as a factor from behind the scenes. It's literally the nature of magic to do things that are otherwise impossible, so it makes sense that restoring magic could happen nearly instantly, as opposed to corrupting it: I don't remember hearing about a cooldown period or overtaxing of magic that'd mean anything would take longer, but we don't know how corruption works.

I dunno, maybe it's just me but I thought the ending made total sense given the plotline and the nature of magic itself.

This, toffee will be revived

It's been noted several times that Star is fucking weird. Probably helps that she seems to have recreated the source of all magic from the ground up, and may or may not be the new god of magic or some freaky shit like that.

Who said I do? But so much of him was build up on how he became what he is and his connection to the royal family. Now that we realize it's nothing interesting, it feels like a waste.

She got literal learning problems in both magic and school.

...ok?

Show has her knowing goddess tier magic and her political activism is portraying her sympathetically

Star isn't a mary but I do think there's a dissonance where the show is a little to sympathetic to Star's behavior and tries to present her as being justified.
Star can be a selfish sperg sometime but the show excuses it by pointing out she's supposed to be a queen and has a lot of societal and parental pressure and that Star is merely going avainst a stagnant high society.

>Show has her knowing goddess tier magic
That she can't control,she simply spam those magics and most of the dame cause just as much damage to her side, also she don't know the most basic speels like telekinesis, something that was mentioned to be extremely easy to magic users many times.

yes
they are dumb

>school
irrelevant since she left earth and her grades never mattered anyway. she still made friends with a lot of people
>magic
and yet she ended up controlling god form after getting drunk with ponies
what a great and compelling character

>Where Star is literally the mother of magic now?
How the fuck is the show having any sort of threat with star being literally god tier.
That monster bash episode would have ended if she had used her god form that now she controls at will but she didnt use it.

>and yet she ended up controlling god form
Like every single princess before her did naturally?

Is like saying that a kriptonian character is a mary sue because he learned how to fly after months.

>Show has her knowing goddess tier magic
One blast that she literally said she doesn't know how she did=!knowing goddess tier magic. Also, with your logic she should have stomped Mina but Mina just shat all over her until she left.

> and her political activism is portraying her sympathetically
Yeah, sympathetically, but not with instant gratification. If she was a truly that perfect, the problems would have actually been fixed over night like she thought they would but it clearly showed things will need work

That is a point of the show.
Star is a Chad princess who does what she wants and succeed every-time while loosers around her are trying to do something right.

Queen Moon has been studying magic for decades and still sucks. She learns it as a discipline putting actual effort in it.
Star can't solve some basic math equation even under threat of colliding her timeline. She doesn't put effort in something but just wait until shit goes really bad and then pull some deus ex machina from her ass. Moon has been training many years to Deep Down, Star learns it in a few minutes just because.

Toffee makes plans and looses. Star doesn't make plans. She does random shit and always win at the end. Making plans is for loosers, why do you need to think about what the hell are you doing when you can just pull some deus ex machina from your ass and win anyway?

Jackie makes actual effort to create an ideal relationship with Marco. She uses her intellect and empathy to understand her and Marco's emotions. She seeks balance between sincerity and efforts to cheer Marco or reduce emotional damage to him. Jackie talks openly even if the talk is hard and she takes responsibility for hard decisions.
Star... well... doesn't understand her feelings and doesn't even trying to do it, she just attacks people and property with dark magic in envious autistic rage. She flees when Marco tries to talk with her about feelings and she lies to him later. I don't even mention using poor boys for rebound and she doesn't care about their feelings.
Guess who was wrecked and who will succeed at the end?

>Queen Moon has been studying magic for decades and still sucks.
Where did you get the idea she sucks?
>but just wait until shit goes really bad and then pull some deus ex machina from her ass
Wouldn't that mean she actually solved the problem?
>Toffee makes plans and looses. Star doesn't make plans. She does random shit and always win at the end
Star completely fell into Toffee's trap at the end of S1 and set it in motion for S2 (blowing up the wand did not actually make things go well at all). And Toffee's plan fell apart because of Glossaryck being the main impetus. I mean the entire point of his teachings is to make use of Star's vast potential which we learned from Baby, is as large as Eclipsa's. If you want to get mad at that, go ahead but it was supported by the narrative, they make a blatant comparison between the two for a reason

>Star... well... doesn't understand her feelings and doesn't even trying to do it
Yeah see all of that is a bad thing. None of what you said about Star's emotions has even remotely been portrayed as good or positive. In fact, downright unhealthy. At no point is Star getting rewarded for that right now at all. Not a single thing is really going right for her

So if you cannot just straight up kill a lizard, can they at least turn the lizard into something that can be killed and then kill it?

Like turn it into a potato or a pinata?

Yeah, why not do a pull a page out of Dracula and just stake his heart?

As long as we've on the topic of strange writing...

Why didn't Star want Tom to know about her sleep portaling? Why would that matter?

Where are all these complaints when every last shonen anime in all of history does this over and over again?

Because she trusts marco more
Because she's still in love with him

I'm pretty sure if you drop a large enough rock on top of him, he is not going to get back up and be a threat to anyone.

There are a lot of ways to stop someone who heals a lot.

That's because basic level magic bored her and she just skipped to the advanced stuff.

And then after realizing that a telekinesis spell was actually kinda something she should have, Star just made up her own since she no longer had the book to learn Levitato from.