Alright Sup Forums, let's talk DC powerlevels. Specifically, the fucker in pic related...

Alright Sup Forums, let's talk DC powerlevels. Specifically, the fucker in pic related. Just how much power is he packing and how high does he rank on the threat scale compared to other cosmic villains?

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How long till he dies

>when the villain has unique speech font and bubble to signify their power

5th dimensional imp, like Mxyzptlk.

Omnipotent, but usually with some exploitable weakness.

Come to think of it, I wouldn't be shocked if Barbatos turns out to actually be some twisted version of Bat-Mite.

>When the villain has been manipulating everything from behind the scenes and has been winning from the very beginning.

That's the coolest shit

>Just how much power is he packing
Almost none considering even when he "kills" people in this run it doesn't seem to be for real and they just go back to being alive again. As far as I can tell all he's been able to do is inflict waking nightmares on everyone, which makes him like a cosmic version of Scarecrow. Pretty weak desu.

>Alright Sup Forums, let's talk DC powerlevels
>>>/cbr/

I mean, he is the undisputed ruler of his "Dark Multiverse", but the place is a constantly dieing hellscapes that changes and shifts on a whim, so that isn't saying much at all.

He seems to be more powerful in the dreaming/dark multiverse, since he's supposedly been pushed back before with Nth Metal.

>fighting one of the endless in what appears to be his own realm

isnt that supposed to be some form of impossible? I was under the impression that dream is untouchable in his own realm unless he's bound under some stipulation/ruling or otherwise has fucked up/let part of his power be taken from him.

His powers have to be Dream/Nightmare influenced, basically a walking mental manipulator

it's the only reason why Dream himself would get involved

inb4 the whole event is just a literal nightmare and there are no consequences to this event

Exactly this is why after a douzen of issues he still didn't achieve his goal.

Hal will save the day

>isnt that supposed to be some form of impossible?
That's exactly how the first Dream was killed, by the Kindly Ones entering his realm and destroying shit until he died.
>unless he's bound under some stipulation/ruling or otherwise has fucked up/let part of his power be taken from him.
That's an awful lot of exceptions you tacked on at the end there.
First Dream left his realm for like a minute to keep a promise about a boon and that apparently was enough for them to get the upper hand and kill him, although he wasn't doing that great before leaving either, he just had them stalemated.

Dream admitted that Lucifer was far more powerful than him, it's possible. Specially since Barbatos isn't from the multiverse.

Wasn't the entirety of Sandman just an elaborate suicide plot?

In terms of villains who can create, alter, and destroy entire universes, I would rank them thusly:

Empty Hand > Anti-Monitor > Barbatos > Mandrakk > Mister Mind (butterfly form) > Alex Luthor Junior

I don't think it was a conscious decision, no. It's more like if you ever watched the Buffy the Vampire Slayer TV series and they had that one episode where Spike explains to Buffy how he was able to kill Slayers in the past (an extremely rare accomplishment for a vampire to achieve). His explanation is that they seemed to want to die on a subconscious level and he could tell they weren't trying as hard as they could to pay attention and get the upper hand in the fight.

>Come to think of it, I wouldn't be shocked if Barbatos turns out to actually be some twisted version of Bat-Mite.

I would fucking love this reveal, oh god

As far as I am concern Metal is about canon as Marville.

This ranking seems pretty accurate. Of course, given that the Hypercrisis is only escalating as time goes on, I don't doubt that we're going to be seeing bigger threats sooner or later.

Higher than Bitchseid.

Isnt Barbatos a piece of Darkseid's anti life?

ye, what gives?

Then he gets sucker-punched by Manhattan

didnt he literally ask his sister to take him at the end?

Like he passes the gem to the boy so the boy will become himself. Then he goes out, grants the boon, "dies" and when death shows up he has to convince her to take him. (Actually, by that understanding, it really shouldnt be possible to kill any of the endless unless death is fine with taking them. She's shown the ability to not come to collect people, when they make that guy immortal that dream drinks with every century or whatever.)

We knew there'd be no consequences from the start.

Are there ever?

He calls her because his time has come, not just because he wants to die, if that were the case, he could just call her any time.
Also, Hob's a special case. Death simply not coming doesn't prevent people from dying, she comes to collect their souls - there was this issue with the boy at the boarding school tormented by spirits of the dead students.

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>he is the undisputed ruler of his "Dark Multiverse",
Has this really been confirmed ?
Because I thought the Dark Multiverse was just an evil reflection of the main universe, like a shadow of the multiverse, and Hyper-Adaptor/Barbatos was a creature living inside of it but not actually ruling over it. The Dark Multiverse seems to predate Barbatos.

I think it's stated several times that Barbatos is the "God" of the Dark Multiverse, though I don't think they clarify as to whether or not this means he's it's "ruler" or just the most powerful entity dwelling within it.

From what I understand Barbatos is the Hyper-Adapter who followed Bruce Wayne after Final Crisis and only began to target him when Batman fell through time.
So he's not a creation from the Dark Multiverse and he couldn't have been born there.
It doesn't seem like he could have created the Dark Multiverse either because, from what they explain, the Dark Multiverse has always been a part of the DC cosmology at the shadow of the Multiverse. They depict it as what you get when you flip the map backwards. Barbatos doesn't seem powerful enough to create and rule over an entire Multiverse (which begs the question of whether someone else did or it simply manifested into existence on it's own).

So it seems like it's more likely the latter, that he is the most powerful entity dwelling within it.

>Omnipotent
>weakness
Pick one, and go back to elementary school.

Batman should really become the Joker

that little girl from Lucifer vol 2 >

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Is that Harley Quinn? Literally sudoku yourself.

Its kinda funny that now one can confuse Delirium with Harley

Anti Monitor literally is one half of Mandrakk, and that's before he was mutated into the end of all things.

I think Dr Fate can be towards the bottom at this

...holy shit...
is.. that the source of Harley's inexplicable powers?

The Dark Multiverse seems like it just came into existence to counter the general "Positive" energies of the Prime Multiverse. Though if someone/something DID create it, they would likely be on a level more akin to the Presence than anything else.

>Tony Daniel drawing anything Sandman
This should be some sort of offense punishable by death.

lol

Wait Dream is getting involved?

All powerful doesn't mean all knowing. Give all the power in the world to an idiot and you just have someone powerful you can show into doing horrible things.

Considering the premise of the Dark Multiverse is that it has all the aspects of the main Multiverse but with ass backwards and shitty storylines that cause them to collapse, wouldn't it mean that there is an counterpart to the Presence in that world ?

Daniel's at the end of the first issue, and he appears as Batman reads his grandpa's journal

Where's Prime and Manhattan?

Flashpoint.

>The Emppty Hand and The Endless
>That low

Shouldn't that be Lucifer then?

COIE's influence is felt to this day.

Most likely. But that "counterpart" would probably be so twisted and warped that we almost certainly wouldn't recognize it as anything short of Pure Evil.

Luckier may be a *massive* dick, but he isn't the kind of being to destroy whole universes over and over again and torment their inhabitants in ways that make 40k seem like a vacation home.

>Remember when the actor for Zorro was so good that it made you want to see the movie again and drag your parents out Bruce? IT WAS ME BRUCE, I WAS THAT ACTOR

No way in hell is Barbatos above Mandrakk.

Lucifer did massacre a shit load of "people," in the middle of that series, but I don't know if "unfinished creations" really count as people.
Hmm, those unfinished creations are similar to the stories-that-went-bad in the dark multiverse

The new League of Legends hero Zoe also reminds me of Delirium.
>Short manic pixie dream girl, giddy and excitable but pretty all-knowing
>Reality-bender
>Colorful hair and outfit

So do they say "I'm right here" all at once or does it awkwardly go down the line?

Ha, that would piss people off, but not to the extent of the "Killer Frost is Death" meme.
Who would Desire channel through? Ivy?

The Presence should be lower. Empty Hand should be higher and where is the Overmonitor? This is a shit list.

It seems more like they spoke in a very quick sequence as it went, with each one immediately following up after the other, no breaks in the chain, and none of them interrupting each other as they did so. At least, that's how I read it.

shouldn't superman gold be higher?

Mandrakk shits all over Barbatos.

How ended that anyway? Was it Destiny or not?

Hasn't happened yet. I do still think that the scene takes place in his garden, but doubt that she's actually a "sister"

Me too. Having a character like Killer Frost being suddenly this relevant seems like trying to make your OC the most important character ever.

lucifer and michael have explicitly been stated to be second only to the presence in multiple comics and runs
also the endless should be higher as characters like mandrakk are still within characters like destruction and deaths realm so should be lower, as you cannot kill any of the endless, as they ARE sentient concepts
5D imps shouldnt really be on there as theyre limited only by real life human imagination and are just for fun

The presence is omnipotent inside of the story. The monitors study the story from the outside. Meta beings that embody concepts like the author, the blank page, the reader, dc editorial, the end of the story, should naturally be above the presence.

>Elaine, literally God's successor and equal, below archangels and Endless
>Superman Thought Robot and Empty Hand below anything at all, considering what they embody
>Superman Prime that low
>Destiny being on a power-level chart at all
>powerlevel faggotry in general
Whoever made this needs to be necked.

Lucifer is a dick but he's not that powerful or that much of a monster.
He's a fallen angel, not a literal embodiment of evil to oppose The Presence/God being an embodiment of good.
From what I recall, even in the Bible, The Devil is nowhere near God's level and he is more or less the ruler of Hell because he was banished there first. He is closer to being an opposite to Jesus, literary-wise.
I could be wrong though.

Maybe that counterpart is evil itself but it's not so much of a God as it is a collective of whispers in the darkness that push for evil to grow.
I don't remember if there is such a thing described in the Christian mythology but if we are to assume that the Dark Multiverse has counterparts for everyone (as it's apparently the case), maybe it exists but cannot affect the main Multiverse (as we assume The Presence does not affect the Dark Multiverse), and the only reason Barbatos was able to amass the Dark Knights was because he was not created in there.

lucifer in vertigo/DC literally all of creation from michaels power
lucifer = gods will
michael = gods power
lucifer is never shown as being truly evil outside of a few showings in an etrigan comic here and there, hes usually just completely uninterested in everything

>lucifer in vertigo/DC literally all of creation from michaels power

The power behind the Dark Multiverse being a twisted force rather than a more 'direct' entity like the Presence definitely sounds interesting. And it would fit with what (admittedly little) we know of the place.

According to Snyder the creation myth of the dark multiverse will be explained in the next issue of metal

So far we know that the dark matter realm is much "Older and vaster" than the normal multiverse.

>According to Snyder the creation myth of the dark multiverse will be explained in the next issue of metal
Oh boy, I can't wait. Dark Multiverse stuff is always a great read.

>we know that the dark matter realm is much "Older and vaster" than the normal multiverse
But isn't it supposed to be around the same age as the normal multiverse ?
Why would a thing that is supposed to be a twisted reflection of another thing be much older and vaster than the thing it's supposed to be reflecting in the first place ?

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I guess that the worlds bubble up and vanish when they are imagined by their normal multiverse counterparts, but the ocean of dark matter has been there for longer.

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True.
Maybe the existence of a dark matter multiverse isn't necessarily restricted to the DC cosmology, but it applies to all realms of fiction or non-fiction, before Batman or Superman or DC comics even existed.
Maybe there are Dark Multiverses with bad ends for characters like Sherlock Holmes, or Tarzan, or The Shadow, that have never been explored or revealed. Or maybe they have and that explains all the crappy spin-offs and bad end stories out there.
There are tons of fiction out there that deal with mirror worlds or bad endings.
Maybe the Dark Multiverse is just one of many stillborn failures across all realms of fiction or non-fiction (because Earth-33 is part of the DCU)

I'm just brainstorming but that's one way I can see the concept of a Dark Multiverse being older than the DCU.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Dark Multiverse is an unchanging constant for every piece of fiction/non-fiction, and that realities just end up there whenever their dimensional walls become too weak, or something drags them there.

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The Presence is basically dead after Lucifer cut him in too pieces after his heel turn in vol 2 (which is canon even know u fags wanna ignore it)


well Barbatos is the dragon in the mirror so probably

Ellaine Belloc is the new presence and the writer confirmed via twitter that was not the real presence.

He won't, but should.

>Christian mythology

>mfw dc fag
>mfw hundreds of threads on Sup Forums discussing dc related shit with a few cartoon threads sprinkled in

Well I mean, the first issue of Doomsday Clock dropped recently, so it's to be expected honestly.

>Why would a thing that is supposed to be a twisted reflection of another thing be much older and vaster than the thing it's supposed to be reflecting in the first place ?
It never rebooted. There was no CoIE or Zero Hour, or Flashpoint.

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Holy Shit. This is terrible.

Muh dick

true enough but still i feel like whenever there's a thread discussing comics there's an about 80% chance of it being dc related
is marvel really just pumping out shit at this point?

He’s a DC event level threat so he’s basically as powerful as the story needs him to be until the heroes find a way to win

>is marvel really just pumping out shit at this point?
Yes, this isn't even a question. Hell, the SCP thread (before it was tragically deleted), focused primarily on a cross between the SCPverse and DC. I don't think Marvel was so much as given even a passing *mention* through that entire thread. They have truly fallen lower than any other comic company in history.