What did Snyder mean by "deconstruction"?

I heard him saying he wanted to deconstruct superman in an interview

Also what went wrong? why do fans and critics seem to hate Snyder's vision?
Did he fly too close to the sun?

Hand waving method of his lack of Superman knowledge

>what did Snyder mean by deconstruction

He meant he doesn't like Superman but he wants to make a movie, and he wants pass off him making not!Superman as him being smart.

>Also what went wrong?

He's a terrible filmmaker obsessed with all the wrong things about filmmaking.

>why do fans and critics seem to hate Snyder's vision?

Because his inhuman, Randian Superman is a terrible vision, terribly executed.

>What did Snyder mean by "deconstruction"?
Basically it just means "What if Superman existed in the real world?"
Not an idea without merit, but not really something you should build a n extended universe on. This sort of thing only really works in a more self contained story.

>Also what went wrong?
He is always more concerned with trying to be clever and not at all concerned with telling a good story.

all people that dislike snyder's vision are usually very uncreative and need to be hand held through the movie. they also don't appreciate amazing visuals.

snyder gave us a superman that struggles to become superman and a batman that struggled to become who he should be. low iq snyder haters are extremely impatient and just wanted a stereotypical blue boy scout and a cheap pop john williams musical rehash.

...

>"What if Superman existed in the real world?"
Waid already did that and it was fantastic until it ended terribly.

I really love these Zack Snyder kino pictures. Do you know where I can collect and download all of them including the ones that analyze MoS and BvS, and how deep they were?

See and this is where people for some reason invested themselves heavily in the narrative that Snyder did "something" Art Like.
Your emperor is naked pal, sorry.
He hates superheroes and it shows.

>Also what went wrong?
Snyder talks big but literally has no idea how to do anything

MAARRRTTHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

>The why of superheroes
Alright Snyderfags, what is the why of superheroes? What did Snyder's films tell that others before or since didn't?

>snyder gave us a superman that struggles to become superman and a batman that struggled to become who he should be.
So I'm not allowed to struggle to enjoy it?

It told us about how we need heroes for Hope. It also shows that Superman had to die to redeem humanity and redeem Batman.

I feel like deconstruction needs to have a goal. What if Superman existed in the real world is a good enough jumping off point, but I never really saw what his goal was? What premise was he trying to prove?

Is becoming a hero like Jor-El wants him to be the right decision or the wrong one like Jonathan Kent believed?
At the end of MoS Supes had to lay waste to Metropolis and deliberately take somebody's life, thus compromising his own morals. And the movie just seems to shrug that off, a few minutes later, without reaching any conclusions.

And BvS is so mired in symbolism and soliloquy that it forgets Clark for large stretches. In fact he's more of a plot device for Batman's character development than his own.

I won't blame Snyder for all that. Goyer is a really shitty writer and he's been the albatross around this franchise's neck ever since. Everything that came after him was trying to somehow fix his mess.

In 50 years these movies will be praised in high regard by the filmmakers of tomorrow.
Zack Snyder is literally the Leonard Cohan of film directors

>It told us about how we need heroes for Hope
Pretty much every good superhero movie tells the same thing. That's the entire premise of superheroes in general.

>It also shows that Superman had to die to redeem humanity and redeem Batman.
Why?

>What did Snyder mean by "deconstruction"
He meant this:
Superman::~Superman() {
// Deallocate the vison that was previously reserved
// for this string.
if (_vison)
delete[] _vison;
}

>this meme again

Oh wow a Jesus Metaphor how innovate and brilliant. Having a theme and idea alone still doesn't mean the movie was actually good or well executed but at least you can post pretentious shit like this on the internet.

A hamfisted attempt to recap Grant Morrison, except without Grant's intellect or drugs.
Done to death
next?

The amount of samefagging in this thread is heinous.

I've said this repeatably to Snyder fags and they've responded with "its actually an Apollo analogy, stupid cuck", as if that makes a difference. the point is I don't mind religious/mythical inspired themes in a movie, the problem is it's a cape flick. I'm a cape fan, I want to see cape stories based on comic books, not the bible or greek, roman, African snake god mythology or what the fuck ever. keep that out of cape flicks, unless it's permitted for that story, which in the case of Superman I don't think it's necessary.

you put it exactly in saying it feels as pretentious as the people defending it. imagine if they did this shit with Spider-Man in the Raimi film after he saved the train. like wow he's like our savior, cast out by society while being also selfless.... wow, 2deep4 me.....

...

such a memorable hero and good role model for young fans.

In 50 years, the last remaining Snyderfags will be in the old folks home or dead.

The thing that bothers me is there are tons of Superman stories full of fucking Jesus and messiah imagery, especially in the movies but no one looks at them as big brilliant pieces of art despite most being better than Man of Steel. At this point actually having that as a theme at all is annoying and boring to me, unless you have a really clever or inventive way of doing it, which Snyder did not.

Peepee jar.

The problem I have is that Snyder doesn't get super heroes. He doesn't understand Superman, or even Batman, so why would he be able to make a decent film about them?

>why do fans and critics seem to hate Snyder's vision?
Because he legitimately lacks the talent and the scriptwriters to realize it.
Also, the "1st year film student" level of symbolism doesn't help.

This. All the shit about how he "hates Superman" is retarded, the guy is just clearly a realism fag who got into comics in the mid 80's with TDKR and the Man of Steel. And I absolutely guarantee he's read more Superman comics than most of this board, he's just also a simpleton.

I actually do appreciate that they wanted to build this universe on movies that aspired to be a bit more than just generic genre shit like TDK, but Snyder and Goyer's reach was vastly longer than their grasp and they instead made something that was neither entertaining nor poignant.

Part of the point of comics like Watchmen is that you can't really do something serious and realistic with these kinds of characters without ruining what makes them good in the first place. With Superman it's a better idea to play it relatively straight.

The way to be deconstructive with Superman, in my opinion, is not to make him a morally challenged Christ figure, but instead demonstrate the hope he brings to a cynical world. Show how the world reacts to an ubermensch who loves and believes in them instead of one who is unsure of himself.

>deconstruct
means throw away.

I have nothing against Snyder superheroes. They would have been awesome in a film with half the budget and with original characters. And I've got to say: half the budget would have been easy looking at the final result.

It's all very sad. Superman didn't deserve this, and Snyder was capable of much more.

So is life.

Deconstruction is very tricky to play with. On one extreme, you have something like Neon Genesis Evangelion, where the creator was desperately trying to get across the idea that giant robot anime shows are inherently fucked up, that any child having the fate of the world placed on their shoulders is going to end up with crippling emotional problems, and that obsession with teenage girls is a very bad thing. It failed in that respect to an incredible degree. A lot of people consider it one of the greatest giant robot anime stories of all time, that the only problem with Shinji is that he's a pussy who should just get in the fucking robot, and that Rei and Asuka are both hot.

Watchmen was more about how anyone who would dress up in a costume to fight crime would have some serious personality flaws and how society would be changed by them and the introduction of a real person with super powers. People with great (normal) abilities tend to warp society around them; sometimes good, sometimes bad. Change normal to super and the impact would be even greater.

A lot of people, and I think this includes Goyer and Snyder, confuse deconstruction with saying "All of these elements of stories you like suck and here's why," but it doesn't have to be that way. You can deconstruct something without completely tearing it apart and reducing it to rubble. One of the things I give Snyder for is the idea that Lois Lane would easily be able to find out who Clark Kent / Superman is by following his actions. It's a lot easier to buy that than the idea that she interacts with Clark Kent and Superman on a regular basis but the glasses are just such a good disguise.

You can have a deconstruction that is still fun as well. Last Action Hero (Ahnold) was a deconstruction of the action movie genre, that realized "OK, a lot of this stuff is patently absurd, but it works!" I love martial arts movies, but one of my favorites deconstructs the genre: Big Trouble in Little China.

>snyder gave us a superman that struggles to become superman
You mean, tried really hard to make a gritty version of Raimi's Spider-Man?

>2deep4u

No, I understand it fine, and there are even some good Superman stories with many of these same elements. Hell, The Dark Knight Returns, which was liberally imitated in BvS had them. However, it was written by someone who got their meaning and did not only get awed by the pretty pictures. Snyder just puts his favorite panels into the movie, with no thought to what they represent.

In a different timeline, Zack Snyder would've been put in charge of a series of Daredevil movies. He'd have been perfect for all of the brooding and angst and heavy catholic overtones. He'd be hailed as the architect of the definitive silver screen take on the character.

Oh well.

Is liking a Zack Snyder movie the equivalent of buying comics based on artists you like? Because most of the time I don't give a fuck about what the story is because you can't really go wrong if the visuals are badass.

He attempted to make a "realistic" Superman, in that, what would things be like if Superman appeared in the real world.

So Clark would be more conflicted, people wouldn't trust him, etc. It's an interesting idea, unfortunately, neither Snyder nor Goyer are clever enough to follow through on such an idea. They were afraid to commit to that idea, but they also didn't want to do a full reconstruction, wherein you put the pieces back in a straight retelling, so its a kind of half-assed foundation that thinks its clever than it actually is.

That being said, Man of Steel is still a better Dragonball Z movie than Dragonball: Evolution.

>This. All the shit about how he "hates Superman" is retarded, the guy is just clearly a realism fag who got into comics in the mid 80's with TDKR and the Man of Steel.
It's strange that you'd make shit up when Snyder literally gave an interview saying what got him into comics and it wasn't those things. It was Heavy Metal.

deconstructions work just fine and make great stories if
a) they are deconstructing something the audience knows and understands, so the points don't get lost along the way
b) there's still an interesting/well made story being told in front of that deconstruction. the deconstruction should be in the background and the main story should still be consumable.

if these two things aren't done then it comes off as an unfunny parody at best or a generic shitty version of that genre it's trying to deconstruct at worst.

Really?
It always seemed to me that it was more he hates the concept, rather than not understanding it

He did say he loved TDKR and Watchmen too desu.

Snyder is a randian objectivist. He literally does not understand why someone would help others for no material reward.

>That being said, Man of Steel is still a better Dragonball Z movie than Dragonball: Evolution.

High School Musical is a better Dragonball Z movie than Dragonball: Evolution.

It's pretty telling why though. He's on record as saying he likes books like that not because they've got more sex and violence. Not because they have any deeper themes or because their storytelling is better crafted, just surface level edgelord shit.
Which makes his reading of TDKR suspect as hell especially.

THREADLY REMINDER THAT SNYDER WANTED TO SEE BATMAN GETTING PRISON BITCH FUCKED IN A MOVIE.

/ourguy/

He doesn't hate them at all, he's just very modernist about them. Pre-80's comics are silly and primitive, costumes don't make sense and have to be explained and have utility, things like no-kill rules are outdated, etc.

And there's nothing inherently wrong with that take, though I really dislike it. In fact, the MCU films are very modernist, as were the Nolan Batman movies. As much as people like to talk about the MCU movies being quippy or silly, they still are a pretty grounded take on the genre in terms of avoiding outlandish elements and making powers/costumes believable.

It's certainly possible to make a modernist Superman movie. There have been plenty of modernist takes on Superman in the comics that have worked fine. The problem with MoS are that it's very shallow and the modernizations of Superman aren't interesting or fleshed out enough.

I do think people want a modernist take on Superman. Wonder Woman was a very modernist superhero movie and people loved it. So though I would love a post-modern, reconstructionist, classically styled Superman movie, I don't think that's really what people want.