Your honest, non-circlejerky-in-any-direction opinion about this film?

Your honest, non-circlejerky-in-any-direction opinion about this film?

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comicbookdebate.com/2017/11/23/the-metaphysics-of-batman-v-superman/
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love it, fuck the theatrical ver. though

the pacing was really fast and I was surprised at how quickly it was over. the stakes never really felt high and the grudge never seemed believable because of how little time they spent interacting

it also wasn't very memorable and I didn't care for it in general
I haven't seen any of these DC movies since

The ultimate edition is a masterpiece

As crappy as it gets.

Manslaughter Batman that wants to kill because "if there's one percent chance he might be evil in the future, better kill him now", and a Superman who looks incredibly unhappy while doing his job. And then there's Lex.

Snyder went out of his way to make the characters not like themselves. JusticeLeague tried to fix everything, but it was too late.

I don't like Superman films having the same tone as The Passion of the Christ.

It's a mess and its version of Superman is depressing. There's a kernel of a good Batman movie in there and I actually love the sequence of Bruce trapped in the end fight of the last movie. Could have been a great motivation by itself to stop Superman if they didn't feel the need to pile on all that African conspiracy/Knightmare bullshit.

You dont seem to understand the implications of Superman being evil or even simply wanting to take over. It means we're doomed. One percent chance is unacceptable.

Had issues with the theatrical cut but liked some scenes.

Loved the ultimate version. As someone who loves Man of Steel I'm still not sure which one I'd rate higher, probs still MoS but I really loved BvS UE and hate that JL was a complete 180 so much. I know a lighter tone was intended but that movie was not the thematic follow up I had hoped for.

It's a collection of scenes with characters I couldn't give less of a shit about leading up to a pair of overblown fights.

It was shit with plot relying on everybody being retard. Alfred was its only saving grace.

it wouldn't be so bad if the way they showed it wasn't so dumb
>be Lex Luthor.
>be afraid (lol) that Superman can go around killing people if pushed too hard.
>my solution?
>push him to the absolute edge and and then create a bio monstrosity to stop him.
>Oh shit it backfired and now we have a planet destroying monster on the loose.
>Still Superman's fault

Batman doesn't kill even kill criminals, why now he wants to kill a good person on the chance he might become evil someday?

Are the Avengers trying to kill Thor? Why should Superman die, then?

The entire village getting slaughtered plot is a waste of time and has the added bonus of being completely nonsensical in the theatrical cut because it looks like people are accusing Superman of shooting people.

Luthor acts like a college student who became an athiest to spite his parents and just finished philosophy 101.

Luthor' s motivation for making the Doomsday troll was unclear since if Batman had killed Superman I'm not sure what the point was of making it.

Superman looks suicidal in 99% of his scenes and barely talks.

Neither Batman nor Superman were inspiring in this film.
Couldn't see too much, as it was all so dark and shadowy.
Batman wasn't much of a ninja, or a detective (Couldn't figure out that a guy who said "Bruce" when he comes to fight him might call out "Martha" as part of a psychological attack, thought that 1% danger should be considered an certainty) making him just a rich guy with expensive toys.
Batman's "your not brave, men are brave" feels a little hypocritical when he can take a bullet, point blank range to the back of the head. Which he did.
All in all, i thought it was a film for kids, that was trying to be clever and failed. Would have been fun, but the bar has been raised for a while now, and I expected more from a comicbook film.

1 percent is unacceptable? That's coward talk.

With comic book films or just adaptations of things I like in general, I only ask for one of two things: A good...no, a DECENT movie (my standards ain't astronomically high), or a movie that stays true to the source material. If you can do both, that's excellent. That's how you get something like Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles (1990), or Dredd (2012), films which I'll watch forever. But if you can only do one or the other, you end up with films like Logan, Speed Racer or the original Batman. And that's OK, too. I enjoyed all of those films. Great.

But if you do neither, you get garbage like Batman v. Superman.

Did not see/10

Loved it but it should had been named "dawn of justice" instead of BvS, since that fight clearly wasn't the climax

Why the hell are Gotham and Metropolis like 20 minutes away from each other? It seems odd that you can see the Batsignal from Metropolis.

>Manslaughter Batman that wants to kill because "if there's one percent chance he might be evil in the future, better kill him now"

THE CRIME ISSSSS... LIFE

It’s a piece of boring shit. Stop trying to meme the ultimate edition. The movie is straight garbage.

Its an ok movie that gets worse the more you think about it. I appreciate what Snyder was trying to do with Batman, Lex and Superman but he dropped the ball on the execution and subsequent DC films actually trod it further into the dirt. Justice League for obvious reasons, and Suicide Squad for raising the question of why Punished Batman was fine with killing mooks because of Robin's death, but let the actual fucking Joker live.

if they had any sense they'd have done
man steel 2 first, then dawn of justice. then maybe wonder woman followed by batman. then make justice league a two parter. ending it with death of superman. BUT NOOO, they just wanted to cash in on them sweeet mcu bux.
the retards in charge deserve the bullet

Meh.

Jolly Rancher/10

It's my favorite superhero movie. For all the reasons people hate it.

Pretty fucking bad.

Superman is unstoppable. Thats a big difference.

Also Marvel wont ever consider Thor being something else than a pure hearted hero.

>Also Marvel wont ever consider Thor being something else than a pure hearted hero.
Superman has a stronger moral code than Thor.

Why is Thor considered a pure-hearted hero (even though he never showed that), while Superman should die on the off chance of becoming a villain in the future?

It was just a mess. No character acted in a way that made any sense.
>Lex makes the most convoluted plan ever
>Batman is so committed to killing one guy her murders henchmen by the trainload, then becomes best friends in an instant
>Doesn't even reflect on all the murder he committed to prep for another murder
>Superman lets Lex fly off in a helicopter, doesn't try to save his mother, and lets an armed truck that was firing at Batman just drive off
This isn't even mentioning the side characters that have no purpose other than being pawns for Lex. Which is fine if Lex made any sense with his plans.

I honestly love it and agree with

Lex wasn't afraid of that though, Batman was. Lex was mad because a sizable group of people thought of Superman as a god.


Good job looking like a fucking idiot.

>Batman doesn't kill even kill criminals


He has in literally every other Batman movie that came after Adam West.

Yes it was, and Batman realized he was wrong for thinking that way and was literally acting out of fear.

This

>It was shit with plot relying on everybody being retard

Looks like someone didn't get it and fell for the memes.

>Luthor' s motivation for making the Doomsday troll was unclear since if Batman had killed Superman I'm not sure what the point was of making it.

To kill it with the kryptonite weapons he was pushing onto the government, thus making himself look like a hero.

oh sure "i'm trying to kill him for the LOLs" is so much better.
can you actually refute the other points?

>Couldn't figure out that a guy who said "Bruce" when he comes to fight him might call out "Martha" as part of a psychological attack

But that was literally his first reaction, hence why he starts choking Superman even harder when he says that name at first.

> thought that 1% danger should be considered an certainty

He was acting out of paranoid fear fueled by the death of a robin and by the end he realized he was wrong.


Are you this dumb all the time?

it was a mess. there were no reasonable motives for that fight to happen when a 10 seconds dialogue could have solved everything. The problem for me was not how supes was portayed but batman instead. shit was plain out of character.

best goddamn batman action scene ever though. that warehouse fight scene was the shit, if nolan's trilogy had that fights on that level the whole thing would've been 10x better.

Great comedy

Its been done in the comics before.

I love BvS, I'm glad the Ultimate cut got released with the Blu-ray, Doomsday fight was dope too especially the Nuke feat.

> Batman was fine with killing mooks because of Robin's death, but let the actual fucking Joker live.

Holy shit thats not why he was fine with killing people. He only starts killing people after the senate explosion because he now thinks that Superman's very presence is causing large scale terrorist attacks and partially blames himself since Luthor framed it as Wally (his former employee) doing it out of revenge.


He stops killing by the end of the movie. Less than 48 hours happens where Batman is killing.

You're retarded.

>Lex makes the most convoluted plan ever

No he doesnt


>Batman is so committed to killing one guy her murders henchmen by the trainload, then becomes best friends in an instant


He doesnt ever become best friends with him in BvS. he realizes he 100% misjudged Superman and then looks up to him after Superman sacrifices himself.

>Doesn't even reflect on all the murder he committed to prep for another murder

Which he realizes was wrong and was meant to be a plot point in Snyder's cut of JL. They show hints of with Batman's death wish.

>Superman lets Lex fly off in a helicopter, doesn't try to save his mother, and lets an armed truck that was firing at Batman just drive off


Because Lex had his mom hostage you retard, and even says if anything happens to him his men have orders to shoot. Also he said he doesnt even know where Clark's mom is. And Clark DOES try to save his mother by convincing Batman to help him. Also, in Superman's eyes, that armed truck was a perfectly legal group of Lexcorp employees protecting their legal shipment of mineral.


How are you this dumb? I'm serious. Do you just have no brain?

>Which is fine if Lex made any sense with his plans.

OH okay, you really don't have a brain.

The Ultimate Edition is a solid 7/10

Theatrical is a 5/10 at best.

Pretty much this. Can’t believe I cared so little throughout a movie with the selling point being Batman fighting Superman.

It made me unhappy.

We can go into detail about why, and how the characters weren't what I wanted, the story wasn't enjoyable to me, and so on, but it's repetitive.

It made me unhappy. Warner Bros. chooses to make products that make me unhappy. I won't pay for their products any more.

Its not FOR THE LOLS, its because he is jealous of Superman and his status in society. Like always. If you cant accept luthor hating Superman because of people praising him and taking his thunder, then you just cant accept Luthor as a character.


What other points did you even make?

>Superman who looks incredibly unhappy while doing his job

He never looks unhappy while doing his job. When he saves Lois in the beginning he is pretty chill about the whole thing. He looks unhappy when people praise him like a god and he doesnt know how to handle the situation or right after a senate explosion (which is 100% appropiate).

You have to realize this Superman has only been active for 2 years and is super controversial.

I mean just analyze the montage. In the flood scene he is upset because people put his symbol on their homes and not "HELP" or anything else. He just isn't sure how to take that kind of 100% reliance yet. On the ship and rocket scene he doesnt look unhappy at all, he looks concentrated on saving people. Why should he be smilling while in the middle of saving people? We never see what happens right after he saves these people which is when he usually smiles--oh wait yes we do. We see him at the end of saving people from a fire where he does indeed smile at a girl (after everyone else is out of the fire persumably) and then that gets immediately ruined by people once again praising him like a god.

>inb4 "why not just tell them he isnt a god?!?"

Do you really think that would convince anyone who has already made up their minds? Especially since it has been shown to us he has done interviews with the Daily Planet where he lays out his mission statement, which doesnt include being a god?

I guess you should never watch Bergman, Kubrick, or Fincher then.

not that you idiot
the whole rest of the post you picked on.

you didnt make any other points since the premise of your entire argument was wrong. What do you want me to address?


He was never trying to blame Superman for the creation of Doomsday.

His plan was to have Superman and Batman fight, resulting in either Superman's image being tarnished or him dying. If he didnt die than Doomsday would kill him. If Superman did die, then Doomsday would kill Batman and Lex would come in with his kryptonite weapons he was pushing onto the government and kill Doomsday himself--selling the narrative that Kryptoniates (and all their tech) is a menace to society that cant be trusted.

see

I genuinely strongly dislike it.
The music is irritating or forgettable, none of that MOS epic spot-on shit.
Pacing is bad, the religious symbolism comes off at being pretentions, pompous and obvious instead of sophisticated and well-thought of.
Batman kills, Superman is morally void which is a nonsense to the character in my opnion.
Worst Lois Lane, worst Lex Luthor, worst Doomsday even though it's his first appearance, shoe-horned Justice League.
The actual fight is forced, way too short and ill-conceived (why would Superman even breathe in that kryptonite when he could fly around it ?). The "Martha" safeword thing is bullshit.

Why did Loïs know to go get the spear ? Why does she spend the entire movie having to be saved (at least three times) ?

It should have been "The Dark Knight Returns", or at the very least "Man of Steel 2". It was neither, it was pretentious, convoluted, boring and exhausting to watch.
I wanted so hard to love this movie, fuck me.

>Batman kills

Like he has in every movie since Adam West. This is the first movie to actually call it out as being a negative, non-Batman thing to do though.


> Superman is morally void

He isn't though, he is doing moral things all throughout the movie and his whole struggle is wrestling with how to do the most possible good.

ah yes, i'll use a kryptonian based monster to kill Superman despite not knowing if i can control him until he is created, and then i'll kill it myself, even though Batman stole my kryptonite, Supes got his shit pushed in and i don't have anything that resembles a suit that could help me defeat him.
Flawless, 100% no plot holes at all.

lmao
>gotta watch the uncut blu-ray version!

>why would Superman even breathe in that kryptonite when he could fly around it

How are you this retarded? Its literally his first ever exposure to the stuff. He didn't even know it existed before that fight.

>The "Martha" safeword thing is bullshit.

But thats not what happens. When Superman first says Martha he starts choking him harder because he is freaked the fuck out that an alien knows the name of his mother. Its not until Lois comes (whom he was told about in his own dream) that he starts to listen.


>Why did Loïs know to go get the spear

Because she saw it was hurting Superman and knew that there was shit going down at the kryptonian crash site. She put two and two together.

>Why does she spend the entire movie having to be saved (at least three times) ?

That is largerly her role in most Superman media. At least in this one she was a major part of unravling the mystery.


It sounds like you arent very smart.

Knightmare scene was completely unnecessary. Luthor was great.

>Which he realizes was wrong and was meant to be a plot point in Snyder's cut of JL
So it doesn't happen

Because that doesn't exist

It sounds you are more concerned about insulting me than about admitting legitimate plot holes that destroyed the audience's suspension of disbelief for this movie.

It's a beautiful trainwreck consisted of awful decision after awful decision, but Snyder just fucks everything up with so much gusto it's an entertaining watch.

You compare it to Justice League where they're trying to play it safe, the entertainment's not the same. You're no longer seeing someone trying to get their specific view that is... quite unique to put it flatteringly, and really believing on what they're trying to do regardless of how it's received.

I dont remember anything about it, but I wasnt bored, so whatever that means.

I really, really liked it (love the UE version more). But this movie was doing too much. It really should have been 2 movies

>, i'll use a kryptonian based monster to kill Superman despite not knowing if i can control him until he is created,

Why would he give a shit if he could control it if he has the means to kill it whenever he wants? In the comics he never gave a shit if he could control Bizarro before creating many different Bizarros. In the comics the creator of Doomsday couldnt control Doomsday.


>even though Batman stole my kryptonite

you're retarded beyond belief. We know for a fact he has more kryptonite. We saw that giant ass rock of it his employee found in the ocean. We see how much Batman steals and we know it isnt as much as that rock he found. He also flat out says he has been developing kryptonite weapons.

>Supes got his shit pushed in and i don't have anything that resembles a suit that could help me defeat him.

Why would he need a suit? He has kryptonite missles and shit.


You got some pretty silly complaints. These arent plot holes, these are you wanting a different story. You wanted a story wherer he wears a mech suit instead of having kryptonite weapons. You wanted a story where Luthor controls Doomsday instead of having the means to kill him if he wants to.

I liked it a lot. Not as much as MoS, but I felt Batfleck is probably the best Batman we got, and I was satisfied with it for the most part. Though, what happened after the climatic Batman v Superman fight I didn't quite like. I felt Doomsday and the Death of Superman was wasted and happened too soon, and Luthor shouldn't have been arrested.

I feel like it's overhated, and it astonishes me that people seem to skip over basic elements in the film that are kinda obvious but I feel just require an extra second of thought to process mentality. It's not that hard to understand Luthor's motive, or why Batman calmed down after Superman felt humanized to him by realizing he wanted to save his mother.

I also liked Luthor, I felt he was different but acceptable. Though I would have wish they stuck with Cranston.

Overall I'd give it a 7 or 8 out of 10, depending on my mood.

>gets all of your points BTFO
>YOU'RE JUST BEING A BULLY!

LMAO

Sounds like you are more concerned with being a little bitch than backing up your flimsy arguments that got absolutely destroyed.

>these things I was 100% wrong about ruined my suspension of disbelief!

The problem is you.

Sure, but he still realized what he did was wrong by the end of BvS. You're complaint is that he didn't reflect at the part of the movie you wanted him to reflect at, which is silly. You dont get to dictate how long a character's arc is and less than 24 hours pass between him getting the kryptonite and confronting Superman.

It's shit but the Batman parts are great and Eisenberg would make a good Joker I think. Out of character murder batman is still really cool. Plus he actually does detective stuff and subterfuge.

Definitely not the worst superhero movie ever but it's up there.

>oops we found some red kryptonite
>oops we opened a portal to nazi or gommie superman
>oops we ran into one of the other trillion superman goes evil scenarios because that's the only "interesting" think we can think of to do with him

The ultimate edition is far superior to the theatrical cut. As for the plot itself, I found it simple to understand. It relies on people having known these characters outside of their movie counterparts. I think that's why a lot of people didn't get it, because not everyone has read TDKR or the Death of Superman.

It has it's flaws for sure, like Lois instinctively knowing to get the spear (WTF) and the fight between Bats and Supes was underwhelming (Your movie is literally named Batman Vs Superman and the main fight between the two characters is so lame and one-sided, fuck Batfags). One thing I really liked though was the use of themes, symbolism and allegory used throughout the film to visually tell the story, instead of mountains of exposition. It's more implicit than explicit.

I wish we could get an extended cut of Justice League, just so that Snyder's true vision can be complete.

>Why would he give a shit if he could control it if he has the means to kill it whenever he wants? In the comics he never gave a shit if he could control Bizarro before creating many different Bizarros. In the comics the creator of Doomsday couldnt control Doomsday.
Yes why would he give a shit if his planet is destroyed by Doomsday, tis a minor inconvenience at best.
Also are you bringing Comic canon to a movie that is igoring it? Doomsday was a alien remember, a honet to god alien, not a Zod infused with Lex DNA
We saw that giant ass rock of it his employee found in the ocean. He also flat out says he has been developing kryptonite weapons. We see how much Batman steals and we know it isnt as much as that rock he found.
Fixed the order for you, also that chunk he gets is the largest he has found, said it himself, he may have more but movie doesn't show, for all we know the remaining kryptonite he has are tiny fragments, other wise he would advanced with his plan sooner
>Why would he need a suit? He has kryptonite missles and shit.
You mean his most advanced weapon against him? Why on earth would he need it.
>Missiles
You mean the same Supes can dodge withe the efort it takes to lift pebble or shoot out of the sky?
even if used against Doomsday (who has the same poweres) there's no garentee he could do anything to stop him after.
>these are you wanting a different story.
Yeah, a good one.

>We saw that giant ass rock of it his employee found in the ocean. He also flat out says he has been developing kryptonite weapons. We see how much Batman steals and we know it isnt as much as that rock he found.
Opps, forgot to greentext that bit

>Yes why would he give a shit if his planet is destroyed by Doomsday, tis a minor inconvenience at best.


Your retarded, this is 100% null because he has the means to kill Doomsday whenever he wants.

You are just repeating the same point ive already disproven.

>Also are you bringing Comic canon to a movie that is igoring it? Doomsday was a alien remember, a honet to god alien, not a Zod infused with Lex DNA

Because this version of Doomsday is obviously a mix between the classic "Lex creates Bizarro" and "mad scientist on krypton creating Doomsday."

Are you such a literal thinker you cant understand why I brought up the two inspirations for movie Doomsday? Let me spell it out for you.

By showing that Lex didnt care if he could control Bizarro when he created him (same goes when he creates a lot of his own monsters) it shows that him acting recklessly isnt out of character.

By showing that the person who created Doomsday in the comics couldnt control Doomsday, I'm showing that again, they are staying true to the source material by having their version of Doomsday be uncontrollable by his creator.

But regardless, thats all moot because Lex had a way to kill Doomsday if he needed to.

> also that chunk he gets is the largest he has found, said it himself,

Yes, but that chunk was way larger than the portion he let Batman steal.

> for all we know the remaining kryptonite he has are tiny fragments, other wise he would advanced with his plan sooner

No, we see their initial haul of Kyrptonite and we see how much Batman steals. We know he has a huge chunk of it still. And he wouldnt have advanced his plans sooner because they rely on him getting access to the crashed kryptonian ship and giving Batman kryptonite.

This is honestly the dumbest argument you've made yet.

>You mean his most advanced weapon against him?

It doesnt even exist in the movie yet holy shit you're autistic, literally yelling about him having a weapon that doesnt exist.

>You mean the same Supes can dodge withe the efort it takes to lift pebble or shoot out of the sky?


They arent there to kill Superman, they are there to kill Doomsday, which we see take a missel to the face you fucking retard. His plan isnt to kill Superman with kryptonite.

>even if used against Doomsday (who has the same poweres) there's no garentee he could do anything to stop him after.


What does that even mean? We see him get killed with kryptonite. We see him not dodge missles. So kryptonite msisles would work.

>You are just repeating the same point ive already disproven.
Where? all i see is what if's
>But regardless, thats all moot because Lex had a way to kill Doomsday if he needed to.
Except not, and seeing you couldnt refute that point i'm a call bullshit. Missiles. Realy?
>Yes, but that chunk was way larger than the portion he let Batman steal.
No, we see their initial haul of Kyrptonite and we see how much Batman steals.
Provide image source of this claim.
>And he wouldnt have advanced his plans sooner because they rely on him getting access to the crashed kryptonian ship
that implies he already knew the ship has a restoration pool thing, despite having no access to it and discovering it when entering it, was that ever explained?
>It doesnt even exist in the movie yet holy shit you're autistic, literally yelling about him having a weapon that doesnt exist.
Name calling because you have no arguments aside how would he stand a chance against Doomsday? the being who was getting exponentially stronger by the second.
>We see him not dodge missles.
We see him get pitted against supes and firing a missile at both, what would hapen to a monster that is constantly adapting and always on the lookout for ways to survive when he sees the first kryptonite infused missile hits him?

>what would hapen to a monster that is constantly adapting and always on the lookout for ways to survive when the first kryptonite infused missile hits him?
my mistake again.

All of you bitches saying its bad should read this and then off yourselves
comicbookdebate.com/2017/11/23/the-metaphysics-of-batman-v-superman/

basically, all of this
I feel that, at its core, there was a good movie somewhere out there, but it was flooded with scenes awfull decisions, the african bullets plot and Pa Kent scene been the most dumb imho
thoug I think the UE cut is something about 6-7/10 I liked MoS and I wanted this movie to be good, fuck dammit
overall, I'm kinda of sad with the whole state of the DCEU, it seems WB shat their pants with the backlash of BvS and are trying to reproduce the safe action/comedy blockbuster type like JL failed to be

Boring and contrived.

Fight scenes between Batman and Superman were slow and plodding. Other than that great action sequences. Poor villains across the board.

JL is a better film, as is MoS, as is WW

>all the typos
shit, I promise not to drunk post again

>Your honest, non-circlejerky-in-any-direction opinion about this film?
Bad. I honestly and genially believe that they took a script for Man of Steel 2 where Metallo (or something like that) was a US contingency plan against Superman, and replaced it with Batman's story. It very clear that story is about Superman and Batman's part just does not fit.

>genuinely

Wish I never knew it existed

>The Martha scene is all kinds of retarded
>Lex "CUHRAZY DUDE LMAO" Luthor
>Affleck's Batman is awful
>The actual fight between the heroes is lame as hell

It wasnt bad, better than WW. I enjoyed MoS more. Wiating for DVD to watch JL. WW burned me out on DC movies.