Why does this series piss off so many people?

Why does this series piss off so many people?

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He gets text heavy and pretty right wing later on.

Almost half of it is the author pissing and moaning.
It's especially bad when he resorts to typing up his thesis on religion in small print and passing it off as a "comic."

>Right Wing
That's putting it lightly.

The man had a psychotic breakdown, his wife left him, and he started mentally crumbling until he reached the point where he decided women were the source of evil. Dave's finally started to mellow the fuck back out, but there was a good decade where he could not get over his breakup and pitched a fit. Strangely it took a few years for it to really set in.

Dave Sim's misogyny is too weird for most of the US right wing DESU because it involves his own fusion of Judaism, Christianity, and Islam all. Chicks as sucking voids is pure early 20th century Austria, tho

Yeah, I don't think "right wing" is the right way to describe it. Plenty of people who don't agree with Dave's politics enjoy High Society/Church&State, etc. The politics aren't important. It's more that he started using the comic as a bitching platform, demonized the opposite sex wholly, and wasted everyone's time.

Aside from Chasing YHWH the last chunk of the comic is actually great, but it reads completely contrary to how Dave intended it. The last few times we see Jakka it feels like she's complex and has justified, complicated feelings. It doesn't read like she's some kind of horrible creature by virtue of being a woman. Cerebus' final moments read like the final, resounding statement of Cerebus always making the wrong choice and misunderstanding everything. It looks and reads like broken, awful creature being forgiven in the grace of God rather than the damnation his fool self thinks it is. Latter Days is like the ultimate case of Death of the Author, where it's wonderful if you ignore what Dave says it is.

How was Cerebus in Hell?

>Plenty of people who don't agree with Dave's politics enjoy High Society/Church&State
He didn't have those politics back then. Back then he wrote strong female characters who had agency and good stories. Some of those women worked to make their world a better place, because Dave hadn't decided yet that women are soul-sucking voids.

>pure early 20th century Austria, tho
What

>copy paste over dante's inferno

Dropped it at #0 and I own all the phone books.

Existing images pasted together with a long-since-disinterested Sim makes really bad jokes and references to ancient history and The Divine Comedy.

How do you think it is? You can go read it for free, but I wouldn't bother.

I dunno, I mean with Dave Sim's mental state at the time, I actually figured Jaka's presence was twice as significant as Rick's absence. Of course she's in hell.

Yeah, that was pretty retarded. Dore's art is so good that it feels like an insult to use them in a comic book like that.
On the other note, Cerebus is probably one of my favorite comic series and it has inspired my own work. Of course I'd never go full retard like Dave did but you can't deny how good the story and the characters were at the first half. Also, Last day is pretty kino.

I was talking about Dave's actual political inclinations, which were inherently part of those books given their sibject matter but not overbearing. The girl hate didnt start seeping in any meaningful capacity before...was it around 130? I can't remember anymore.

The bitterness was there by the time Deni split, and his editorial in...I think 71 made my skin crawl, but it took a while to really fester.

I saw some interview he conducted (by fucking fax of all things) from a while back and he read most of the questions the female reporter asked as some kind of attack, when it was all completely benign. It was honestly sad to read, and reinforced what you said: He was beyond misogyny and actually insane at this point.

Only Cerberus i know is the secret organization in the original trilogy of Mass Effect...
Damn, good times, not created by this shit.

Cerebus, not Cerberus.

Get educated.
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That's Dave's intent, yes, but the idea that all those people of such diverse character are damned but Rick alone isn't is just nonsense. Dave always made Rick out as this truly innocent soul...but it wasn't very effective. He just cane off more as a bit kindly and slightly infantile.

As far as I'm concerned, Rick's in hell. He did something awdul that Cerebus just didn't know about. It makes for a more fulfilling ending, really.

>demonized the opposite sex wholly
As somebody who actually read the Mothers and Daughters arc I have a question, why people keep saying that he was demonizing the "entire" female gender?
The main villains, the Cirinsts, are a group of supremacists using systematic schemes to establish a fascist regime, all while using their gender as a way to inflict gender separatism and female supremacy within the villages.

Yes, they're composed almost entirely of women, but during the story it's shown that not all women agree with the ways of the Cirinsts and in fact, a lot of female characters reject them.

I think most people say that it demonized women because of that "Male light, Female void" thing, even though it was "Female light, Male void" before and nobody said anything at all. What a bunch of hypocrites.

>I think most people say that it demonized women because of that "Male light, Female void" thing, even though it was "Female light, Male void" before and nobody said anything at all. What a bunch of hypocrites.
I'm just more comfortable seeing somebody demonize [group they belong to] instead of [group they don't belong to].

He set himself up as a false prophet. Of course he's in hell. Cerebus isn't because he was just dragged along for the ride.

Do you really not know what fucking cerberus is

Oh hey, would you like a story where a lesbian is forced to become straight and stay in the kitchen?
It's written by a woman, so you'll be okay with it.

Hey, I just remembered, isn't Cerebus transgender or something?

Yeah, sure, I'll put it on my backlog.

I'm just saying, if a woman had written Cerebus then I would rather have had "Male Light, Female Void" instead of "Female Light, Male Void".

Otto Weininger, "Sex and Character"

But then the Cirinsts would be a male supremacist group.
You know, DC's favorite straw villain group.

Hermaphrodite. It's supposed to be symbolic or something.

>Otto Weininger, "Sex and Character"
That has nothing to do with what you said earlier.

That's the early 20th century Austrian material.

But everyone refers to him as male.
Did he even told his girlfriends that he had both genitalia?

I'm not sure if Joanne knew, but Jaka definitely knew because of the time she suggested that they go to a hunting lodge as lesbians. (And Astoria's the one who told him in the first place.)

I don't give a shit about capeshit and I don't appreciate you attempting to steer the conversation in that direction. I'll just wait for you to apologize for calling people hypocrites because they don't see the world in the exact same way that you do, and then I'll be on my way and I won't bother you again.

Honestly, you're acting like a total Dave right now.

>attempting to steer the conversation
Huh? Like, that was a simple observation. Calm your tits down.

>because they don't see the world in the exact same way that you do
>Honestly, you're acting like a total Dave right now.
>I won't bother you again.
Oh wow, where did that come from?
Oh user, never change.

They most likely said nothing before it was reversed because there wasn't a big group of evil people who were all men and their evil comes from the pit of inherent male evil that some men simply reject.

Also Dave's ramblings became more and more about inherent female nature over time.

Or stuff like
But nah, it's just those *dirty hypocrites*.

He was going on for quite a while before people started calling him out, man. It's not simple fickleness.

Dead thread.
Thank you all guys for coming.
Kisses.

Favorite book?

Jaka's Story has the best individual moments, but Church & State has the best overall story.

We have a troll calling people hypocrites and insinuating that people who disagree with them haven't actually read the comic.

That's good fodder for an argument. We could easily reach 500 posts. All you have to do is try.

Minds. It fooled me into thinking Dave wasn't actually that crazy after Reads. Plus I liked the lettering. If Cerebus had actually ended at 200, it would have been at least a little bit better. Instead we got the complete retardation of Latter Days.

It insists upon itself.

But seriously speaking I don't think it works that well as a story. Not the phone books individually nor as a series as a whole.

Guys.

I can totally relate to having "your bar" for a few years where friends hang out and having that bar suddenly close on you.

This one post on one comic board really made me think.

What is Chasing YHWY even about? Skipped right over that shit, asked Gerhard about it at a signing, he stopped caring long before.

The Void God is good. YHWH is evil. Stuff happens to Konigsberg. Cerebus reads the Bible.
Expand all this to about 100 text pages and you've got Chasing YHWH.
There's probably something I'm forgetting but honestly it's all a blur to me.

>women were the source of evil

It’s not like he was wrong...

All I remember is a movie still from The Seventh Seal and a tranny Woody Allen.

Female circumcision.
Reading from the Torah.
Not much else.

If anything, it doesn't trigger them enough....

Fuck, the central plot for the 2/3rd of the series is that a deranged feminazi death kult that openly ape the most fascist elements of Islam (the leadership caste outright dress up in burkas) are taking over the world. And that the "moderate" members of the sect are even worse in that they want to use turn the world into Hub City (IE let everything turn to shit in order to force Armageddon to happen quicker).

And in the end, not only do the feminazis win but that REAL FUNDAMENTALIST ISLAM is coming to make the feminazi hell seem like Utopia when it happens.

Cerebus collects a run of comic/texts (the "Reads" of the Cerebus universe) which tell the truth about religion. In the process, he overthrows the feminazis only to have his new female sidekick simply replace them with an even more degenerate feminist dictatorship, effectively fullfilling Astoria's dream of turning the world into Hub City (except Cerebus is properly neutralized so he doesn't fuck it up)

The Judge's message is that everything dies.

In theory, this makes you realize that you need to make the world a better place now or at least, that all your scheming and plotting will be for nothing and that you should enjoy life now before it's over (which was the red pill Astoria took in M&D).

because most people have no taste
plus they get mad at all the small print stuff. I Guess people should just stop after rick's story and just imagine Cerebus and Jaka end up happily ever after.
(last day is pure comic book kino)

It's a decent book if you just want a cheap laugh.

Basically Sims photo-shopping Cerebus into drawings of hell inspired by the Divine Comedy/Inferno with Cerebus or the people in the pictures making quipping jokes.

It's kind of refreshing and does a great deal to humanize Sims, in that it's the sort of book that indicates that Sims has finally gotten over his mental breakdown issues that mired Cerebus. If you want deep deep lore shit, you'll hate it but if you want to something that will make you crack up laughing it's worth checking out.

the Judge gave useful information to someone like Adam but to cerebus its just background noise. He just wanted gold and power.
Either way at some point in the future someone blows up the earth and all life ends anyway.
(also seemingly Cerebus's son does eventually create the Sphinx and pre-pharonic egyptians worship him)
kind of reminds me of Dune. I wonder if Dave was a fan. All motherly female military force fighting another more attractive female military force is some what similar to the stuff in Dune.

IIRC Sim physically can't draw anymore

would you wear this in public?

I'm 100% certain that if the comics press didn't boil it down to
>Dave Sim is a misogynist
then everyone would have just read the last 40% of Cerebus and either really liked it, or shrugged, or really liked part of it and then shrugged.

Because there's nothing sexist in the actual work.

Dave said sexist stuff in interviews and letters pages, but the work itself is always quite nuanced.

BUT the problem with the last third or so of Cerebus is that it's so self-indulgent that it's nearly incomprehensible. It's like Dave literally came down with schizophrenia, and if you're read any Glamourpuss then you know that he's never recovered. It's genuinely autistic, weird, and has an aesthetic that's often impossible for anyone besides the author to appreciate.

The whole
>Male light, Female void
thing would just go over normies heads, or else they'd just rationalize it in some nonchalant way along the lines of "Well this is what the characters are saying, but the characters, and the narrator, are fallible."

Instead the readers were faced with a nearly incomprehensible text, and the comics press swooped in to tell them:
>"Yeah pretty weird, right? Let me tell you what's going on: Dave Sim is a misogynist. You see that Void and Light stuff? Just hold onto that little slogan whenever someone asks you about Dave Sim, so you can be sure to tell them how sexist he is."

It's probably the greatest accomplishment in the history of the medium. I say that even though I disliked most of the final third of the work. But all and all Cerebus is so fucking impressive it's ridiculous.

It's so good that the creator literally turned 1000 of the final 1500 pages into ornate autistic scribbling, and it's STILL overall the best comic in history

i have the dictator one. If you dont mind wearing a shirt with a cartoon character on it, its hardly offensive.

>Because there's nothing sexist in the actual work.
Rick and Cerebus preach to each other that women are worthless and that rational men should cut off all contact with women. Cerebus reads Genesis and realizes what it actually says is that the feminine spirit is inherently both malicious and stupid. It's in the comic.

its the characters. Its not like Cerebus is shown to be a really rational character otherwise

The narrative works under the assumption that Cerebus is right and rational when following the ways of Rick.

I can't believe i'm going to risk derailing this thread but...

You know when Astoria is on trial and she and Cerebus start having visions of their past lives and the different iterations of their archetypal struggle throughout the ages? Anyone else have visions of that during the Trump/Clinton debates?

I'm getting hot topic vibes

>implies cereberus didn't go off the deepend

shouldnt you be posting /incels/

Wore the left one once at a con. No one gave a shit. I don't know what I was expecting really.

Dunno, couldn’t muster any enthusiasm after the fat guy on the moon went full WORDSWORDSWORDS for fifty damn pages or however much too much it was.

But that was the best part.

You are a strange user, user.

It's fifty damn pagers (or however much it was) of an omniscient character telling Cerebus "You're a piece of shit and your life is going nowhere", which is something that Cerebus needed to hear.

>Cerebus's son does eventually create the Sphinx
IIRC he "transitions" into a sphinx