It starts with the fact that DC and Marvel universes, from conception, are fundamentally different. DC characters are more grandiose, while Marvel characters were always based is pseudoscience (however contrived). There's nothing "epic" about Marvel heroes, there all people with glaring flaws and live in a universe that reflects that. Also they were created with a shared universe in mind (minus Golden Age), unlike DC where you have a whole bunch of solo characters thrown together in a universe.
That's why DC characters work so well in tv and especially in cartoons, because they fit those mediums better. Marvel can work in live action tv and movies because their brand works there.
This explains why outside of Batman, DC is having a hard time making their characters work without radically changing them in live action.
>Something something gods trying to be humans something something humans trying to be gods
How to spot a casual?
Brandon Bennett
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Mason Turner
The Marvel characters where created in a flawed world where they werent the old school cape and tights characters.
Its easier for the MCU to make fun Marvel movies than DC to make serious movies. It doesnt fit Superman, Flash etc. And when they try to do light-heated stuff, it's incredibly corny (Green Lantern).
Jason Richardson
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Christian James
>There's nothing "epic" about Marvel heroes
You DC fans are bitter and pathetic.
Donner Superman Nolan Batman
They both were successful
Stop trying to admit recent DC movies are SHIT when you wont even look back before Snyder to see that DC movies can work.
Robert Thomas
I said besides Batman. Also there was plenty of liberty taken with Batman in that movie (placed in a hyper-real scenario)
Ethan Watson
>This explains why outside of Batman, DC is having a hard time making their characters work without radically changing them in live action.
Did you even read it
Jordan Scott
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Jaxson Scott
Do you even read comics?
Your argument isn't relevant since the 80's.
Benjamin Martinez
>DC characters can't work in live action >That's why DC characters work so well in TV >also, my point doesn't hold up for Batman, either
...what is the point you're trying to make, OP?
John Robinson
It was never relevant.
Elijah Thompson
>DC: 6 oscars >Marvel: 5
Colton Harris
>You DC fans are bitter and pathetic.
Im not solely a DC fan. Im saying the Marvel characters werent created to be grandiose or idealistic. They were flawed people. Captain America and Spiderman straddle the line between that DC and Marvel feeling.
Andrew Perez
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Jackson James
Let's count the ways you're wrong:
>Superman 77 >Batman 89 and Returns >Nolan Trilogy >Wonder Woman Okay, that's a start. Even if you didn't like all of those movies, it's proof that it's not a fault of the characters.
Now moving on... >DC characters are more grandiose On average? Sure. But Thor is pretty fucking grandiose. Suicide Squad, meanwhile, isn't grandiose at all, and that movie was still shit.
>That's why DC characters work so well in TV Nice contradiction there. TV is inherently less grandiose than movies. Like, by definition.
>unlike DC where you have a whole bunch of solo characters thrown together in a universe That was true maybe 60 years ago. But DC has existed as a shared universe for decades.
Why are you trying so hard to make excuses, when the truth is that the current management at WB is fucking incapable of telling quality stories consistently? Wonder Woman showed that it can work, but they fucked up every part of Justice League and BvS. Just face the fact that your favorite company right now is really really bad at making movies.
Joshua Lee
not surprising seeing as they can't work in comics
Daniel Smith
There have been a number of decently received live action DC properties with everybody from Superman and Batman to Shazam to the Human fucking Target. Your argument is wrong.
Easton Anderson
Captain was literally less flawed than superman
Also batman was always pretty flawed
Eli Cruz
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Michael Barnes
I know, but it became even less true since the 80's.
The Avengers live like celebrities, they don't have jobs, they try to kill their friends everytime they disagree on something. I know literally no one who lives like this.
Connor Price
It's true. Hancock is a better DC movie than most DC movies.
Joseph Parker
>Flawed people >Captain America His only flaw is his nepotist nature, and he was never called out on that.
John Ortiz
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Cooper Moore
>tfw OP is so casual that he believe superman to be flawless
Newsflash 4u buddy, Superman is not Clark real personality.
Carson Powell
>Im saying the Marvel characters werent created to be grandiose or idealistic. But that's wrong. Take a good long look at Cosmic Marvel.
James Gonzalez
How is Hal Jordan a "god trying to be human"?
How is Thor a "human trying to be god"?
David Rogers
>Your argument isn't relevant since the 80's. Actually it IS relevant, since most of the characters up for live-action adaptations were created before the 80s, meaning my point is proven.
Iron Man, Hulk, Ant-Man etc. have all worked well in live action, while DC is attempting to translate capes and tights characters like Flash, Green Lantern that look incredibly corny if done as is and radically different if changes are made.
Angel Young
>finally replies in his own thread >doesn't address any of the posts telling him he's wrong Wonder Woman worked in live action. Superman has worked in live action multiple times. Batman works most of the time. Green Lantern failed because of a bad script.
There's absolutely nothing about these characters that suggests they can't work on the big screen.
Owen Ross
How long ago was that again? Try doing that now. People arent interested in that kind of superheroics anymore, which is why Marvel has done so well. No more secret identies (outside of Spiderman), no more newspaper love interests, no more stuck in Metropolitan settings only.
Joshua Richardson
>>doesn't address any of the posts telling him he's wrong
It's typical of how OP operates
Justin Lopez
>Iron Man, Hulk, Ant-Man etc. have all worked well in live action, while DC is attempting to translate capes and tights characters like Flash, Green Lantern that look incredibly corny if done as is and radically different if changes are made. But Iron Man, Thor and Ant-Man are all very different from their comics counterparts.
Blake Jones
>Suicide Squad, meanwhile, isn't grandiose at all, and that movie was still shit.
all the villains in the movie were created essentially as the equivalent of cartoon characters. They have an over-the-top flair that works really well for cartoon settings (why all DC's offerings have been so good) while trying to translate into live action is difficult. Flash's villains, Green Lantern, all that shit would look extremely shitty in live action.
Mason Torres
>But DC has existed as a shared universe for decades.
There shared universe still isnt fully developed and explained. How does Wonder Woman's mythology coexist alongside Shazam's, or the New Gods? and there's so many questions along those lines. Its hard to build a shared universe like that and why we often always see Superman or Batman taking precedent in these settings (see JLU and whatever)
Xavier Gutierrez
I love to btfo DCucks just like anyone else but OP is wrong in so many lvls, MCU is nothing like Marvel mainstream universe.
Noah Davis
How does Thor's mythology coexist with Hercules or Mephisto?
Jayden Smith
The spirit and intent behind the characters were maintained tho. Iron Man is more humorous, but he isnt a radical departure.
Cameron Richardson
>no more secret identities >except when there are secret identities
>no more newspaper love interests >except somehow this is different than Pepper Potts
>no more stuck in Metropolitan settings only >except for when they do
>"Marvel doesn't change the characters" >It does though >"But it's okay when Marvel does it." Nice argument.
Isaac Lewis
>It starts with the fact that DC and Marvel universes, from conception, are fundamentally different Oh fuck off with this shit. This is only really *kind* of true with DC's biggest and most iconic heroes. And even those could easily have movies made about them. All they need is producers who believe in the concept, capable directors and writers who have passion for the characters, a talented sfx studio, and a magnetic cast.
Despite what Marvelfags will tell you, there really isn't any reason why Marvel movies can work but DC ones can't when the two universes are cut from the same cloth practically.
Cameron Ward
The DCEU hasn't been working because it wasn't planned well and their movies are shit, it's that simple
Jaxson Thomas
It worked with wonder woman, dude you're making too many excuses at this point.
Charles Fisher
>I don't know anything about comics because I've never read one This is literally no different to how the Marvel Universe works. We've literally seen heaven and hell in the MU, but also Valhalla and Asgard and Olympus. Oh, but also there is no God sometimes. But when there is a god, he might look like Jack Kirby.
Hudson Williams
The only one that's true for is Harley. The rest have been changed drastically to a point that the movie was barely hitting the broad strokes for some or outright reinventing them.
For example, Deadshot is a character that has far outgrown his orginal origin and there's nothing cartoony about it. They actually softened him a great deal because Harley would have been dead if he'd been given that offer in the comics.
Kevin Cooper
way to prove OP's point
Luis Bennett
No is because they hired Snyder, it could work even without plans if it got a competent director since start.
Julian Brooks
But user, you don't understand.
It's okay when Marvel does it. That's the difference between Marvel and DC.
Henry Morris
Burton Batman Donner Superman Carter Wonder Woman West Batman Nolan Batman All the WW2 serials
Nathan Hill
But Batman is also heavily symbolic, and based on a sort of grandiose too. He isnt ever just "there". It's always Batman, and what Batman means in a given context, if you can follow the gist of what Im saying.
>Captain was literally less flawed than superman
Not really. Plus that's why I said he and Spiderman straddle that DC/Marvel line. They are inherently Marvel characters with DC looks and statures. It's why Spiderman has maintained popularity from eras where Superman and Batman were THE forefront of comics, and has now outpaced them in terms of popularity.
Liam Sanchez
>It starts with the fact that DC and Marvel universes, from conception, are fundamentally different. DC characters are more grandiose, while Marvel characters were always based is pseudoscience (however contrived). Nigga Superman practically invented/popularized half of the sci-fi concepts.
John Long
That scene alone is better than civil war and Avengers 2 combined.
Tyler Nelson
Spider-Man sells half of what Batman sells.
Brayden Gutierrez
competent Directors know to stay away from DC because they know the characters are shit and can't work in live action
Parker Martin
>It's why Spiderman has maintained popularity from eras where Superman and Batman were THE forefront of comics, and has now outpaced them in terms of popularity.
What?Batman comics sold 3 times more than spiderman, also unlike spiderman batman got nightwing,batgirl and other sucessful side comics on his universe
TDKR made way more money than Spiderman homecoming and Arkham series is more popular than any spiderman game.
Logan Harris
He is the kind of guy that thinks that "Superman flies because he is an alien" is fantasy, but "Captain Marvel flies because she has alien DNA" is science.
There's no reasoning with them. Just bias.
Aiden Brooks
Why are you so hellbent on this idea of "Marvel Characters" and "DC characters"?
Joseph King
Kek, fucking this.
Like, Marvel and DC are 90% the same concepts but executed slightly differently and Marvelfags will tell you that DC just doesn't work somehow for some reason, one way or another, be it in comics or movies.
Ryan Sanchez
Christopher Nolan
Jayden Moore
>bringing up comic book sales
Thomas Bailey
DC god is a dog.
Oliver Scott
I don't know how can anyone think that Superman's powers are not based in sci-fi. Sure it is pretty ridicolous and some things don't make a lot of sense, but they do have an explanation.
Evan Myers
Movies?Cartoons?Games?TV series?
Spiderman only sell more toys for 6 year olds because batman was not made for babies.
Aaron Roberts
>TDKR made way more money than Spiderman homecoming and Arkham series is more popular than any spiderman game. And Homecoming made way more money than Justice League and more than BvS.
What's your point?
Kayden Morgan
Wonder Woman's Gods are the source for Capt. Marvel's powers
New Gods are decent of the long dead Old Gods, whom were the Scandinavian Gods that died during Ragnorok. All of those Gods were created by Dream.
Cameron Russell
made movies that were far removed from Batman comics because he knew the character was shit
Matthew Johnson
Marvel god is a tranny
Ryder Moore
His movies were more loyal tot he source than homecoming where peter is not a nerd, want to bang a black tumblrfag, is friends with a fat asian, is bullied by a 5'3 latino, study in some queers school etc
Jonathan Green
>because batman was not made for babies
LOL Batman has cartoon series like every other year. He's constantly put out for kids merchandising and whatnot.
Spiderman outsells Superman, Batman and the Avengers COMBINED. He's by far the most popular hero globally now.
Aiden Edwards
And Batman is technically Bill Finger plagerising a bunch of stories
But who cares, right?
Sebastian Clark
>posting outdated shit Friendly reminder that DC Superhero girls selling more than all marvel combined
Logan Rogers
there are literally 4 live action DC shows currently on the air (I guess you could kinda count lucifer too) I don't watch them but I assume they "work" well enough. fuck off OP. plus the 1978 Superman movie is literally the only actually good comic book movie anyway
Easton Ramirez
DC and Marvel are separate companies mainly because Marvel refused to take them because they're smart enough to know the characters are shit
So Wonder Woman has nothing to do with Captain Marvel in ANY WAY
Parker Ross
>movies Homecoming brought in more than both JL and BVS. >cartoons USM and JLA have pretty similar viewership numbers >games Batman wins this one obviously.
William Bennett
Just like Peter is a young golden age superman, just like X-men is a doom patrol rip off
Yeah no one cares bud.
Liam Parker
Because they are cut from the same cloth but are inherently two different universes, which explains their current success (or lack theroef) in translating to other mediums. Marvel is working because of how their characters were conceived.
Oliver Walker
now go ahead and post that article that is also outdated and includes words like "expect" and "hope" since there are no actual numbers for how little it actually brought in
Luis Murphy
>But who cares, right? OP cares. He made this thread.
Carson Diaz
>[citation needed]
Joshua Cooper
>Just like Peter is a young golden age superman Err... no... he's not.
Bill Finger actually plagerized from other pulps and comics to create Batman, while Bob Kane was basically ripping off Superman
Christopher Young
>literally saying about 1bil franchise >no numbers xD Disney will not pay you anymore.
Isaiah Lewis
>there are literally 4 live action DC shows currently on the air (I guess you could kinda count lucifer too) and Gotham, iZombie, and Preacher
Wyatt Rogers
OP, stop.
You are wrong, simple as that.
According to your theory, Wonder Woman should be a failure and Iron Fist should be a success.
Charles Peterson
Hiring Snyder was a fundamental flaw in the plan though.
Sebastian Nelson
>Peter is a young golden age superman LITERALLY what did he mean by this?
Carson Rogers
and your proof is?
Ryder Collins
>I can't use google retard
Liam Diaz
Inherently less so than cosmic DC. Out there? yes. Godly and mythological like DC? no.
Josiah Ortiz
well maybe you should learn and then come back when you have actual proof
Isaac Garcia
OP, do you read comics? Which comics are you reading right now? Which are your favorite stories of all time?
Isaiah Foster
Why do you come to the comics board to discuss about movies? It's clear you don't even read comics yourself.
Connor Flores
Again is selling more toys, Batman cartoons,movies and Games are making money money
Adam Martinez
>no u Pathetic. Go back to your shitty sjwverse, faggot
Camden Fisher
Green Lantern is a outdated concept and would look like complete shit on screen. A magic ring that creates constructs?
Joseph Williams
DC works. DC trying to be Marvel does not.
Nathan Rogers
Except for the Multiversal stuuff and the New Gods, Marvel's cosmic stuff is way more grandoise. Lol
Blake Allen
>be DC >have better universe >have better and iconic characters >have better and iconic stories >losing cinematic race to literally quipfest
Joshua Wood
Meanwhile a bunch of gems that destroy reality being used by an alien who wants to marry the anthropomorphic representation of Death is a realistic concept?
Marvel always had the problem of the casual, but it got so much worse since the MCU.
Josiah Ward
>Batman movies >making money money
Aaron Powell
>being mad at the one person who actually posted a source Damn you're really buttblasted about your lack of proof