Artist as a Movie Director

Been getting a bit more into comics once again, mostly French ones, and I've noticed (or did not notice) how little credit artists get for setting up the entire mise-en-scene and how they angle their drawings. In many ways they can make mainstream and not-so-mainstream movies look as particularly lazy setups. I think that's most of what I wanted to say. I don't thin k "direction" of the comic gets enough praise or notice, not even here.

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panelxpanel.com
m.youtube.com/#/channel/UCYJAToPH5GSGShP7Yoc3jsA
davidbordwell.net/blog/category/comic-strips-and-cartoons/
twitter.com/SFWRedditGifs

Very little of Sup Forums have ever cared about the actual art of comics and even fewer here do now.

This is mostly a place for complaining about cape comics.

Maybe we will see a new dawn for Sup Forums and Sup Forums if a capeshit board gets created.

The 2000's ruined a lot of comics by popularizing " widescreen comics" in The Authority and Ultimates. Bland summer blockbuster became the visual goal.

Nah it's not necessary
The amount of people who do care about the artform is absolutely minuscule compared to the amount for film, literature or even video games

Look at Sup Forums, battle shonen doesn't crowd out the rest of manga nearly as bad as capes do western comics, yet they still have maybe one thread a day that actually has smart people in it

Intelligent discussion on art is simply really hard to find on the internet and especially for comics, so we really just have to settle for getting lucky with a bunch of the smart people being online at the same time maybe once or twice a week

I think that in time, wading through lazy shit on Sup Forums to find a few moments of discussion unburdened by selfcensorship prevalent on social media isn't worth the effort. But then again this is the way I get my literary and comic recommendations.

I agree. The only way to get decent discussion is with a curated group, but I'm not the type of person who is good at meeting people or making new friends, so I sit on here or post lame crap on Twitter to get the bare minimum of social interaction I require to live.

Best hope is finding an old-type forum with a dedicated crew of people who know their stuff but it always falls apart quickly due to egos. Or just keep a correspondence. Personally, I'm gravitating towards self-reliance and use internet only as means of getting media artefacts I consume.

It doesn't get mentioned much because it's massively lacking in mainstream (e.g. big 3) comics.

It's an issue that has a lot of reasons and explanations embedded in it. IMHO, it's because mainstream comics lean on this "pinup" style of art too often: art that looks nice, very occasionally nice enough to want to hang on a wall, but ultimately doesn't have any narrative impact in itself.

Both artists and editors are to blame. Artists because they've been trained and rewarded (via conventions, et al.) that this is the style of drawing that "works". Editors because they frequently step on artists' toes and demand that panels be more pinup-py: the logo needs to be shown, or the main character needs to be clearly visible and not in motion, or you can't have an out-of-context panel where the main character is doing something really violent, etc. etc.

For many editors, they dream of every page or every panel being "worthy" of being a cover. And the historically low narrative quality of most covers should show you why that's an awful idea to implement in actual storytelling.

Interesting, wasn't too aware of this. I'm pretty skeptical about artists who do this being particularly capable of transcending it and doing something like in the opening pic.

Eh, I think that if you got the technical skill, you can nurture the talent, it's just that most modern artists have been artistically crippled.

Just go to a concept art website like artstation, you will see tons of very competent artists with zero clue how to create anything memorable. That is, tons of competent craftsmen. They can render a meticulously detailed Ogre that is worth a perfunctory glance at best.

>very little of Sup Forums ever cared about one of the biggest most important aspects of comic books

Art/style and Writing are the two sole reasons anyone reads comics.

Even then you can overlook a story that has poor/mediocre writing if the art is at least good.

>consuming media

Nigga that's pleb, you have to let it consume you.

A good artist knows how to make a good panel set up, to the point where it's so complex it cannot even be adapted to widescreen without looking awful - though not necessarily always better

However very few people outside other artists are capable of recognizing this. It will just fly over their heads. These kinds of details are something other artists appreciate. Kinda like Fusion Jazz - music for musicians.

Panel setup does seem to be close to movie skillset.

Yeah, agreed. Artists these days seem to have forgotten the fucking basics of artistry, even in something as basic as character design. What happened to a unique profile? Nope, gotta make it more detailed and movie-like instead!

I don't mean to be an asshole but the picture you posted has terrible mise-en-scene. It's literally only the action on the page.

But also, this board is full of characterfags. I don't hate on that, I have no problem with that, but most of the comics released by the big two have absolutely no merit.

People praise Tom King. I'm not discussing him, but IMO while he's better than many capewriters he's still absolute shit. And, he's not an artist.

Currently, it seems Sup Forums prefers to talk about writers and plots instead of the real worth of comics: the art.

Since many american artists don't do their own art, and with the release schedule being so breakneck, they have no time to truly work together, the writer and artist.

You wont see the complex paneling and connections between writing and art like you see in Born Again because dudes are working with three artists at a time to get 5 issues done.

I didn't specify the page in question has a particularly well done mise-en-scene, but I think that angles and choreography are top notch. That being said, Donjon has some of the best landscapes, urban or rural, in the medium.

>That being said, Donjon has some of the best landscapes, urban or rural, in the medium.
I can name probably 50 artists I like better but because they do cape shit and are american I'm sure you'll tell me their landscapes aren't good.

But more importantly why do you think mise-en-scene is landscapes? It's scene construction. Placing an object in the foreground, or placing side characters perfectly to bring attention to a part of the page or scene.

Generally it's used in film/stage discussion because it's more obvious and important in a non-interrupted shot. A character standing in the corner of the frame, shuffling before a character enters from behind or beside them. Including a bomb in a shot that will later explode and be a major plot point, or something like that.

Landscape can be part of it but generally it isn't. From what I can see from the landscapes it's more setting setters (ie, wideshots to show a long journey).

OP sounds like you're looking for Panel x Panel and Strip Panel Naked

panelxpanel.com

m.youtube.com/#/channel/UCYJAToPH5GSGShP7Yoc3jsA

davidbordwell.net/blog/category/comic-strips-and-cartoons/

David Bordwell wrote a fucking amazing analysis of Archie, if you haven't heard of Bordwell he and his wife literally wrote the book on how we talk about film form.

This.

Maybe I'm biased, but Hass has great insight into that stuff.

Shit at the very least he starts on a conversation on form and not simply plot.

I wish someone would write a book on Mike Mignola's layouts, he never uses zany panels - just squares and rectangles but goddamn does he understand pacing. I can't get enough of those little focus panels on an eye or a face or a statue or flower

I never understood why america has such an obsessive relationship with writers and plots.

Its like you treat art as this thing you need but would discard if you could have comics without them.

With Mignola I often feel a draught of poses, he has too many (and too few) signature postures that he uses to showcase his characters and has very little knack for creating a good action sequence. Good at exploration though, as you have noticed.

But Donjon is capeshit.

>mise-en-scene is landscapes? It's scene construction. Placing an object in the foreground, or placing side characters perfectly to bring attention to a part of the page or scene.


So it's the same thing in comics.

user, that's called composition in graphic art. I wonder if you did intentionally, but good point, good thread.

>pedoshit

done right.

He's definitely not reowned for action sequences in a traditional, cool manner.

They tend to all involve flying through the air and crashing through the floor - but wisely he tends to parallel his action sequences either with ominous narration or punctuated with humor and anti-climax.

Ever since a group of artists split off from Marvel and formed their own competing company, Marvel and DC have had a financial incentive to downplay the role and importance of artists in making comics. I can't speak for the rest of the world, but that's how it is in America.

ANd those who do will just claim manga artists are better because speedlines.

Because thats where the money is.

It's pretty dishonest to portray manga as a subfolder of comics industry characterized solely by speedlines. If anything, manga art is vastly more diverse than American comics, which is not that big of a feat.

Reading Skullman and holy shit, it is really good at action, The artists also does really great at adapting the way of Shotaro Ishinomori Action

Also, the designs are fucking amazing in action.

fucking love this page.

And the way he uses those sleek panels that Ishinomori used, is fucking amazing.

All this for just talking. If it was in america, it would just be some bendis copying the same panels. But here Shimamoto uses the setting, the light to set the mood of their discussion.

Will look it up, to this day my favourite work regarding action would be Shigurui though old masters from Tezuka onwards often capture a feeling akin to motion in Tintin comics.

If you do, read the original Skullman first.

Love these vertical panels, kinda shame they are rarely used anymore.