BILLY BAT

So what did you guys think of this Flex Mentallo/Hotline Miami hybrid?

Other urls found in this thread:

kissmanga.com/Manga/Billy-Bat
kissmanga.com/Manga/Billy-Bat/1?id=39642
mangakakalot.com/chapter/metropolis/chapter_1
youtu.be/cMxU8QOffJM?t=130
twitter.com/NSFWRedditGif

I haven't read it lol
But Urasawa is the man. 20th Century Boys is my favorite comic

Hear you go. It's done:

kissmanga.com/Manga/Billy-Bat

I remember the "cartoon" scenes made me think about where the difference between manga and western comics really lie, since they still felt like 100% modern manga instead of how a Carl Barks-type comic or even early Tezuka cartoonish manga do.

It's like they have these deep underlying traits related to flow and staging that outweight the actual final influence the artwork has.

I hear this time Urasawa had another writer helping out with the writing so I'm tempted to read it; I like the premise well enough, but I'm simply not that willing to read yet another story that goes literally nowhere and ends with a escalating series of anticlimactic asspulls.

The man is great at setting and building up, but terrible at actually satisfying conclusions.

I love Urasawa for creating Manben and wish there was something similar for Western artists, though I honestly don't know who could handle being the host

It's on my plan to read list for like 3 months now

I remember hearing about that years ago, but I had forgotten about it. Can it be found subbed easily enough?

>It's like they have these deep underlying traits related to flow and staging that outweight the actual final influence the artwork has.

The keys are speed and volume.

Comics as a whole are much slower and "quieter" than they were back then. West and East had every other panel bristling with action and/or information to the more compressed style of storytelling. Sure, you might have an establishing shot or still frame, but those would usually have one character providing exposition as to what the current circumstances are or a narration box expositing what those involved are feeling or thinking.

Scene changes happen panel-to-panel instead of page-to-page. Backgrounds weren't all that important; instead, you filled pages with multiple characters and props at once to give a sense of breadth and to move things along even quicker.

Ideas and actions come and go, build up is left to the imagination and the gutters to fill out.

Compare this "issue" of Billy Bat:

kissmanga.com/Manga/Billy-Bat/1?id=39642

To Tezuka's Metropolis:

mangakakalot.com/chapter/metropolis/chapter_1

Old comics did not, to summarise, linger and were much more frugal when it came to close-ups and "personal" panels (no little movie moments where information can be conveyed through a complex facial expression). They were less quietly poignant and tended to express emotions in melodramatic declarations and sequences, but they were at the same time, much more expedient as a result. Ironically, modern sentiments would view this style as paradoxically "lazy" and lacking in feeling.

Ergo, in the old days, something either needed to be happening or someone needed to be chattering in each panel. The more of either or both, the better.

I need to go back and finish it. Quite a wild ride when it goes from Jesus to ninjas to Walt Disney to JFK assassination and beyond.

The begining in Japan is quite good, and the whole part in the 60's is kino. It's got the JFK assassination tied into the rise of DisneyLand through some Disney knock-off character. It hit all my buttons. But once you get into the 70's and 80's (really, once Kursu leaves the scene) it loses that perfect, twisted setting and just stops being so interesting. It stopped doing fun conspiracy-theory stuff and turned into Manga-wank, where comic books are so good they change the world. It's a shame, because I loved that early-middle bit.

I mostly agree, but you seem to be branding older comics as "unsophisticated" in comparison; there's a conscious and effective use of high narrative density in Barks' and Tezuka's work (to use the same examples as before) that works perfectly for the storytelling and characterization scope they were going for. What I mean is: I don't see their narrative styles as obtuse or even unevolved, just as a different approach altogether.

Ironically, I do see more creative merit and inventiveness in some of these early works than I do in most contemporary manga and mainstream comics. I recently re-read the first Phoenix book and there's so much more freeform creativity in there than in any given volume of say, My Hero Academia. There's even this part which is staged as a classic dramatic play, with every panel framed in the exact same way for several pages but managing to be funny, entertaining and dramatically effective at the same time.

Also, I straight out disagree about the lesser emphasis on environments; I get a better sense of space and setting in the oldies than I do from current works, which often (in the case of manga) are drawn by assistants in an obviously clashing style to boot

>I mostly agree, but you seem to be branding older comics as "unsophisticated" in comparison; there's a conscious and effective use of high narrative density in Barks' and Tezuka's work (to use the same examples as before) that works perfectly for the storytelling and characterization scope they were going for. What I mean is: I don't see their narrative styles as obtuse or even unevolved, just as a different approach altogether.

Oh no, no, no. I'm not saying that. I was just trying to say what you were trying to say in this and the second paragraph.

As for environments, that depends on the production. Tales such as the one your pic was posted from and the passionate artists attached were not quite the norm. Tools and time available, you understand.

Any more re/co/mmended mangos?

Yeah, for some reason they just can't emulate it right. Like, they can be amazing artists, but there's always something...off anytime they try to pull off more cartoonish stuff. Like, they were only able to grasp the surface area stuff and they can't resist adding their own flavors into the recipe.

Man, Metropolis was a fever dream. Everything was so fast paced and chaotic I could barely keep up with it. This was definitely Tezuka's more early, extreme works though, you can tell as the years go by that even he was starting to slow comics down with pacing, allowing the readers more time to breath.

Although it never got to the point of the Billy Bat issue. It seems like that was taking more inspiration from Watchmen than classic comics/manga.

I've heard this series has flaws compared to his other works, but I do want to read it. I think Monster is a bit overrated desu. It goes on too long

Can't wait for the Pluto anime

Japanese humor is deeply rooted in kabuki so the buffoonery is very loudly spoken and mechanically chereographed. It seems to exist on a completely different dimension than the more "serious" parts of any given production.

Western humor in that regard is a little softer in delivery. Even the loud zaniness doesn't go so far off the rest of the story's vocal scale. It's more organic and stitched closer to everything else. If a show's humor is loud then there's a chance that the rest of it is comparatively as loud. (contrast the relaxed absurdist rapport of Mike Tyson Mysteries and the raucous absurdist screeching of Rick and Morty, both on the same network and both operating comfortably under the tonal restrictions of their respective universes. A joke might gross you out or puzzle you from either camp, but it won't create any real sense of whiplash beyond what is expected of humor's innate subversiveness)

That said, once humor happens, that's when you see the big distinctions between the two styles. Take the ending of Swiss-Army Man. The lady here just reacts with a subdued "What the fuck?" to the farting jet ski fellow. If the same movie had been made in Japan, she would have made an exaggerated "EHHH?!" or "NANIIIIII?!!!!"

youtu.be/cMxU8QOffJM?t=130

That's the Je Ne Sais Quoi. The special cavity where discordant level of humor can leap into and roar.

Some have likened Invader Zim to anime. On a superficial level, they believe it's because of the art style and cyberpunk leanings, but in reality, they say such because the SHOUTING RANDOMNESS of the jokes contrasts so sharply with the overarching drone of hushful dread created by the color palette and music.

z>you seem to be branding older comics as "unsophisticated" in comparison
Well, they are.

They can be archaic at times, but overall I disagree. They're just as capable of most things modern comics can do, it's just at a much faster pace.

Pluto's my favorite personally. It's just so good, it got me to actualy read the original Tezuka comics, which were much better than I thought they wold be. They were gritty as fuck though, Astro Boy especially had so much death, pain, and suffering the likes of Matt Murdock can't even hold a candle to it.

I would love to see more Astro Boy adaptions from Urasawa, a lot of those stories have some potential for a modern retelling.

In some ways they were unsophisticated, and much of this wasn't deliberate. Black Jack can get REALLY bad at times, with 12 panel pages and panels that barely manage to squeeze even a head in.

Well it was for kids so you've got lots of raw creativity and delivery to match unhampered by the modern thought of "but will the ADULTS understand what's going on?"

Some people on Sup Forums really seem to be incapable of reading a comic right, now that you mention it.
>Where did that explosion come from?
>missed the guy on the panel before lobbing a grenade
>Everybody's a total asshole in this book!
>that is the premise, yes.

This is a great way to look at it. This decompression also explains why a modern age comic tends to take months to tell a story that a Silver-Age comic could tell in a singe issue.

Yeah, if you search for it. I think Daily Motion has it all, or at least up to the Junji Ito episode

Dammit, found them but there're no english subtitles for the episode on Urasawa himself

There's lots of authors that use a deliberate slow pace to enhance the story, but I honestly believe most of it is just stalling until ideas come about. It's a tough business

Posting best boy

I love how the series actually made me worry for a lot of the characters I enjoyed the soldier bits at the end

I wouldn't put it past them. It definitely seems like it with hacks like Bendis that have extremely redundant dialogue.

>I recently re-read the first Phoenix book and there's so much more freeform creativity in there than in any given volume of say, My Hero Academia.

This is dumb, these books are so different and are going for completely different things.

baka

Early Manga like Cyborg 009 are fun reads. They're more or less grittier cartoon comics.

Billy Bat sort of loses direction to my taste, wanders without plot and the ending is short of a complete copout, but damn, one remarkable aspect is that it sent chills down my spine on what might happen with Disney(or any idol for that matter) in fact, despite its flaws I think the aspect of how fiction can warp our mundane world should make it almost an obligatory read for the younger generation. I mean at somepoint the series kind of drops the plot and then Its an horror story that I couldnt help being terrified about.

Those last days with the Disney/Fox buzz made me shiver with fear when I saw so many people happy that Disney was now "unstoppable".

I binge read this shortly after I Am A Hero finished and lord almighty was I pissed off.

Junji Ito is Sup Forums-approved

Dungeon Meshi is /ck/ and /tg/ approved.

I mean, they can't be any worse than Timmy. Because screw that hack.

The shit with the concept of there formerly being near-infinite earths and now there's only one left because people kept resetting them over and over was legitimately fucking scary to me.

Well you're gonna be disappointed then

I still think Pluto and Monster were his best stuff. Billy Bat had way more mindfucks and a bunch of interesting plot threads, but it meandered at the end.

Anything by Takehiko Inoue. REAL is probably my favorite, it's about wheelchair basketball sort of but it's more about 2 guys dealing with physical disabilities and a third that put a girl in a wheelchair. Vagabond is great too, it's about Miyamoto Musashi.

Slam Dunk is easily my favorite shounen manga too. It starts off kinda bad because it seems like it's gonna be like every other shounen but this kid that started off only pretending to be interested in basketball for a girl ends up loving the game and she doesn't even come up as a romantic interest by the end of the manga.

I read Monster first and liked it a lot but thought it meandered around halfway. I liked 20th Century Boys and thought it had a similar problem. I tried reading Pluto and just got bored of it about 20-30 chapters in. Is this better?

Yes. You gotta remember that it's an adaption of an Astro Boy story, so it really starts to pick up once Astro/Atom comes into the picture. The chapters where they focus on the other robot's lives are just context for the bigger picture. It's there to give meaning to their lives and inevitable death and ties into the overall message of the story.

Holy shit, you weren't kidding.

Mickey Mouse monsters weren't even the screwiest part of Metropolis. It was like the guy was recording a rarebit nightmare after watching the Fritz Lang movie.

Seriously, the whole thing reads like a damn Jojo arc.

That wasn't even the only time a Disney character popped up in a Tezuka work.

MHA is the best cape comic out right now.

Daisuke Igarashi is a master, can't wait for Designs translation. It's a lot of short stories tho

Blade of the Immortal, Dorohedoro & Lone Wolf and Cub.

Were they reset or destroyed? I didnt get that.

The lackluster ending is a bit of a disappointment though.

Eh, I liked it. Astro giving the speech at the end was always meant how pointless the entire conflict was. The world is undeniably in a worse place because of it, all for the sake of a glorified dick-measuring contest. The very last scene with Teddy could've been better though.

It's really good, you have to be patient and enjoy random stories but they're good. Monster and 21th century boys were better, Pluto was better too but still it's a very good manga.

by definition if something was created by a japanese author and published in Japan, it's a manga. Japanese writer=manga. It's easy.

Pluto by the same writer, shorter than his other mangas but one of my favorites

That's not what he's implying at all. He's just showing off just how different certain comics are in general. Like, obviously a comic made in Japan is a manga, but there is a very clear and obvious difference between that and manga made decades ago. As pointed out, Billy Bat is closer to Watchman than it is classic manga. It may have a similar style, but the pacing, flow, and layout is still very "modern".