THE GREAT DEBATE

THE GREAT DEBATE

I know Carol, but who is the other guy?

Who would ever pick Goku?

Weebs in a weebsite.

I want Goku to win this one.

I guess it entirely depends on whether or not Carol can absorb and reflect Goku's ki, and what her upper limit is before she burns out. Binary was pretty fucking powerful. Blow-for-blow, I think Goku outclasses base Carol by several tiers. If he figured out that using his ki moves made her stronger and then didn't use them, then he would win hands down.

Then again, Goku has a history of helping is opponents so they give a better fight.

Base Carol form or Carol Dyko form? This is important.

>If he figured out that using his ki moves made her stronger and then didn't use them, then he would win hands down.
>Then again, Goku has a history of helping is opponents so they give a better fight.
On the one hand, if he thinks his ki attacks just aren't working, like with the androids, then he would just stop using them. On the other hand, if he thinks that the ki attacks make her stronger, he might try to overfeed her like he did with Yakon in the Buu saga.

It'd basically be the Bergamo fight again

Goku basically already beat Carol.

Is it about who could beat who in a fight? I thought it was who was a better character.
I guess if you're a Goku fan those are the same thing.

Always Goku with you lot, and never Vegeta, Freeza, or Beerus. Pick someone else for once.

>gokufags get BTFO in every goku vs superman threads so they downgrade to try to feel better

What's funny is that he still loses.

Nah Goku would beat Carol. Carol isn't on the same level as Superman.

>He doesn’t know about Ultra Instinct

Superfag can’t beat what he literally can’t hit.

>Carol KOed Sentry
>Sentry is Marvel Superman
>Superman beat Goku
Therefore Carol beats Goku. Am I doing this Death Battle garbage right?

If you're counting the entire character history for both, then Goku wins.

Why do you guys never pick Queen Salior Moon for these VS battles? She is more powerful.

It doesn't matter how much you can dodge because if your body can't keep up then it's meaningless. Plus if you make it so the attack is undodgeable then it will also be useless.

Bob let other heroes best him all the time user. That is like asking how Thanos loses with all of the gems, because he wants to.

Android 18 already spanked Carol on Deathbattle. Goku is many levels above 18 in terms of strength, speed, fighting skill, durability, etc. Carol is doomed.

Ultra Instinct is auto-dodge and since Goku literally expends no energy doing that, it allows him to calculate the best way to strike his opponent. He literally adapted to Jiren's strength and speed. He can do the same with Superman.

Carol has the power of feminism on her side.

>Supernigger is this mad that his Mary Sue isn’t the strongest

He's not dodging near-speed force punches. He's simply not that fast. It's like how spider-man can't dodge the flash even with spidey sense.

And it's not like Clark has to be overt in how he attacks Goku. Goku still doesn't have a way around the heat-vision plus x-ray vision combo or the classic lobotomy through your eyes.

Simply making eye contact with Superman is an instant win for Superman.

He hasn’t mastered this “form” yet, and he tends to get exhausted after triggering it. Plus, we don’t have any calculable feats for this new ability. Don’t match him against Supes until we know what he can actually do.

>Queen Sailor Moon

Blocks your path

Isn’t that unwinnable, since they can’t really hurt each other?

What part of literal auto-dodge don’t you understand?

So she'll lose then make excuses as to why the patriarchy conspired against her?

goku is many many times faster than the speed of light

I mean, it's Goku. Purely in terms of who'd win in a fight, Goku wins.
I still don't give a shit about Goku.

bet she can't beat gohan calvo

The part where he can't physically move as fast as Superman.

Being able to enter a psuedo-precognitive zen state means dick all when you can't keep up. It's not Gold Experience Requiem.

So you’re tired of making my dad can beat your dad threads, and instead it’s my dad can beat your aunt no likes?

>He's not dodging near-speed force punches. He's simply not that fast. It's like how spider-man can't dodge the flash even with spidey sense.

Yes he is dodging them and UI isn’t Spidey sense. Peter still has to send signals from his brain to his muscles to move, Goku doesn’t.

Basically yeah.

Remember the reason they do this is because there is literally nothing appealing to shonen outside fighting. It's like wrestling but with cartoons. You take away Hulk Hogan/Goku's ability to beat everyone and you're left with nothing.

Do not hate the weeb. Pity him.

>Goku still doesn't have a way around the heat-vision plus x-ray vision combo or the classic lobotomy through your eyes.

Actually....

It’s not about speed. If it’s coming at Goku, he will dodge/counter it no matter what.

I wonder where they will go from here, they just put themselves in a corner.

>Goku doesn't have to send signals from his brain for his muscles to move

So do his muscles have little neural nets in them now?

I'm pretty sure by "dodging without thinking" they're referring to super optimized reflexive action like every other zen state power up in ficiton (and the one in FOTNS which Ultra instrinct steals from). They're referring to conscious thought vs instinctual thought. Hence Ultra Instrinct.

Even if his biceps now somehow have their own integrated sense network that still means they're limited by how fast they can move independent of Goku's neurons.

>Dodges a bunch of lasers (or are they just missing? I mean he had to physically hit that last one...)

That's not what people mean by the x-ray/heat vision combo.

Goku's eyes take in light right? And his insides are squishy because a heart virus killed him.

Suddenly imagine those photons cooking his brain from the inside out.

user Kefla still cut his hair with a beam, UI doesn't make him any faster, it dodges things he would've been able to dodge anyways, but now he doesn't have to focus on it.

Well, Goku is able to move so fast that a guy who can literally put time on pause (Hit) couldn’t stop him, so he’s pretty close to speed force levels of fuckery. His big problem is that his best forms (SSBlue with Kiaoken and Ultra Instinct) tired him out very quickly; Superman doesn’t tire quickly. Also, we don’t know how strong Goku is at this point. What good is being able to defend against everything if he can’t really hurt Supes?

>Put themselves in a corner

Come on. This is DBZ. There's going to be Ultra Instinct mk 2 3 4 and 5 before its over with each Instinct getting fractionally faster than the last.

>HIt's time stop
Didn't they say that you can break out of it if your ki is strong enough? Sounds like a spell with a WIS check.

>Trying this hard

Stop thinking too hard about it. It’s an ability even literal gods have trouble mastering. It allows him to dodge and counter that’s it.

Also nice job pulling some bullshit power combo Superman would be very unlikely to use on a sparring opponent out of your ass to justify winning. I’ll do the same and have Goku go Kaioken x20 SSB Ultra Instinct which will make Goku too fast for Superman to track him.

I don’t know who suffers from more autism Supermanfags or DBZfags.

I guess Supermanfags since they’re defending a shitty Mary Sue.

>Didn't they say that you can break out of it if your ki is strong enough? Sounds like a spell with a WIS check

Probably in the manga, I think in the anime he literally just became faster than Hit’s Time-Skip.

Supermanfags for sure if only for the amount of shit they come up with for these threads.

I would put my money on Goku. Simply because if Goku is not holding back, he could just go Ultra Instinct and beat Carol to death.

His Kamehameha's momentum alone is able to escape a black hole. He could just kill her by using that move he used to kill King Piccolo.

Even if Carol could survive a beating from Goku, she cannot survive the force of a black hole.

Why am I even debating this? I know this thread is bait...

goku is faster than light, it's a shit argument that he can't physically in time, cause they're both well past physical law

That's not even close to how UI works. It's your body reacting entierly on instict, however if your body physically cannot move fast enough to react in time to something, automatic reaction won't help you.

Ah, but it's not normal instinct. It's not even super instinct.

I would raise my fucking arms up for Goku to spirit bomb that cunt

Is it super instinct 2?

Same

>Why am I even debating this?
Because it's fun.

Who wins? Plastic Man or Bugs Bunny?

This. Kefla was able to graze him during Ultra Instinct and she's much slower than Superman.

superman doesn't even beat goku though

Clearly goku because his comic is still ongoing and carol's was cancelled.

SSB Goku already outclasses Superman. SSG Goku's punches are capable of killing galaxies and eventually the universe. SSB Goku even more so.

18 killed Carol.

...

Dragon Ball should have ended after the original series was done so it wouldn't turn into power level garbage. It ended perfectly

>tfw Sup Forumsfags can't defeat Altair...

Superman rapes Goku every time. For every great feat that Goku has. Supes has one that's a million times better.

Comics should had ended decades ago so it wouldn't turn into an endless cycles of reboots and reuse story arcs.

...

>t-the numbers are even bigger now guys
>this time for sure

>Goku still gets beaten
>N-Next time for sure!

The absolute state of DBZfags

>babies first story magic character

Fucking Zatanna was doing similar stuff in Seven Soldiers

>goku blasting the chick in the face.

It's what he does. Fun fact he's never penetrated ChiChi he's simply blasted her face with so much baby juice she got pregnant

Also, I hate Super's incessant obsession with replay animations.

I can’t wait for Toryama to have a character say something like “wow Goku moves so fast he’s almost as fast as light now!” or “he reacts in a nanosecond!”. Something that triggers the fans and caps everyone’s speed levels.

user, Akira made Super for one reason. It's in the fucking name. He read all of this shit on line and decided to end it.

Goku stomps Superman. DBZ Goku would not. Super Saiyan God, not even with the blue hair, beats superman. Ultra Instinct,as others have said, basically makes him flash with spidey sense.

>He read all that shit online and decided to end it

It must be fascinating to live in your world.

Jiren broke Hit freezing him in time with nothing but ki.

>bases character off of superman
>stops making character who's only "development" was to get stronger and stronger, becoming a planet busting cosmic entity level power.
>Superman continues to get stronger
>Dude finds put Superman Prime is kicking his characters ass in every forum online. A character he only ever made stronger.
>Makes a new movie, Goku is now a God.
>Announces a show to release after another movie. It's called "Super".

user, I honestly wish I lived in a world without faggots like you. That name wasn't a coincidence.

I don't even know what stories you can tell with cape heroes anymore.
Are they gonna fight each other this time? Or are they gonna fight a robot?
Will they fight perhaps an alien next, or a vampire guy?
Will we get character moments that have been done 200,000 times before? WHAT IS THE MYSTERIOUS SECRET BEHIND X OBJECT? WHO WILL TEAM UP WITH WHO? WHAT BORING THING WILL HAPPEN NEXT?

Man, fuck Carol Danvers. Fuck that cunt into oblivion.

What a shitty person. No heroes at Marvel, only cunts, assholes and pricks.

>He still loses to Superman

Name a current DC comic and tell us and why its story is supposed to be worse than Dragon Ball.

Zatanna is weak af mang, even when given deus ex machina powers.
The only thing you need to stop her is to choke her on a big dick.

Superman becoming Lord of Apokalips is pretty fun. Justice League is rather mediocre but the microverse arc and Prometheus arc were fun.

It's miles better than anything in shonen, that's for damn sure.

Identity Crisis
Flashpoint
Future End
We Are Robin
Robin War
Teen Titans
Superman Rebirth
Wonder Woman
Metal
Green Lantern the Relic arc.
Batman: War of Jokes and Riddles

>Identity Crisis
>Flashpoint
>Futures End
>Relic Arc

These are current?

>Superman Rebirth
>Bad

It was great. Jon's a great character for Lois and Clark to play off. What are you talking about?

>and tell us why

I forgot to include the
>Inb4 "BUT DRAGON BALL FIGHTS ROBOTS TOO"
I recognize that both are children's media, and they both basically have the same artistic merit (very little) but Toriyama is a very good character designer and artist and I personally enjoy his work
I recently read an issue of Metal, uhhh, it was boring. All they did was talk about ancient tribes and shit, I think the Joker showed up (can't have a comic without the Joker) and everyone was running around doing things. I forgot what the art looked like, I did read Darkseid War and the art in that was very good. But Metal was confusing and boring, I can't understand how people would be engaged in it.
I can, however, understand how people would be engaged in Dragon Ball Super. Fights are fun. That's it. It does more for me than people endlessly talking about ancient mystical metals and how that ties into fucking batman for the millionth time.

>Identity Crisis
>2004

So what you're telling me is that you don't actually read a lot of comics and just keep up with them through memes and wiki summaries?

>Both basically have the same artistic merit

No.

Superman is a cultural factotum with many writers using him to many different things. When Goku is forgotten Superman will still be having adventures. The average Superman comic slaps the average shonen comic silly in terms of story telling and the top tier Superman stories BTFO shonen.

>very good character designer

He can only draw a handful of different characters. Just look how his Dragon Warrior stuff and how its copy paste from his DBZ portfolio.

>Metal was confusing and boring

How? I had no problem following what was happening. What possibly confused you?

>Fights are fun

Maybe when you're 12. After that you start to want some character and content to your stories.

Because retconning Superman's Post-Flashpoint history and merging it with Superman's Pre-Flashpoint history totally isn't a colossal confusing mess. Nevermind the fact that it ages Clark and Lois significantly since they now have a 10 year old biological son. Or how Superwoman acquire her powers when Superman never exploded and reduced to a charred corpse.

You should know why it you actually read them.

Identity Crisis is always worth mention when talking about shit.

>Totally confusing mess

Fucking how? Everything with Superman (and several other characters after Rebirth) is on sliding timescale canon. It's not hard to figure out what is and isn't canon. It's not like it matters anyway for the stories. You don't need to know anything outside the books for the Hamilton arc to work.

>Superman never exploded

He did. It's also why we have Kenan.

>Ages Clark and Lois significantly

How is that a bad thing?

Oh god, you're one of those people who think the amount of people talking through Superman's mouth is a good thing.
See I also watch and read other things, I don't look for tryhard musings about the nature of heroism in Dragon Ball. I don't really take it that seriously, it's for fun fights and endearing characters.
Uhh, Superman is a product. Sorry you think he's some big inspiratiom, but I'd wager that most of the time, people read Superman comics very passively and just to stay up to date. It's like bird watching.
The crazy thing is, DBZ is probably the most like capeshit out of any anime/manga out there

>People talking through Superman's mouth is a good thing

Different authors providing different takes on a character is considered a good thing. It means the character can be applied in a variety of ways. Think Robin Hood or King Arthur or any mythological god.

>Fun fights and endearing characters

I'm sorry user Dragon Ball was a few decades back. We're talking about Super.

>Sorry you think he's some big inspiration

He has literally saved people from suicide and helped stop the KKK. The Superman comic-and just the Superman comic-is the third most sold comic of all time.

>He did. It's also why we have Kenan.
Artificial created Kryptonian powers via a fusion of magic and science.

>How is that a bad thing?
Assuming that Clark and Lois got married in their mid-20s to early-30s and the fact that they have a 10 year old son, Clark and Lois would be in their late-30s to early 40s. Too old.

When has Carol ever been a good character?

>Sentry
>On the same level as Superman.

...HAHAHA

Oh I'm sorry I didn't think to realize how many people bought Superman comics. How inspiring!
I used Dragon Ball to refer to the series as a whole. I do think there are fun fights and endearing characters in that series!
I don't give one smelly shit about the mythological implications of Superman though. Thats just bullshit people dredge up to make the character seem more important than a copyrighted logo that gets passed around to myriad hacks and manchildren like a fleshlight. Sure you can squeeze out one new angle of the same story here and there, but now it's like trying to press moisture out of a saltine.
The cool thing about this is that we're both now looking for reasons to shit on whatever we're arguing against. You're going to hate Dragon Ball more, I'm going to hate Superman more. In fact, I don't even hate Superman. Some user mentioned him being the Lord of Apokolips? That sounds kind of fun, actually. I could see myself reading that, sure, but every single issue? Fuck no, jesus christ.

Agree, but Carol isn't even on the same tier as a Saiyan... Sad they tried putting her at the same table as Wonder Woman. Tried and failed.

>Sup Forums tries to defend Goku again
Goku can't handle western comic's top heroes. Goku can't handle MANGA top heroes! He is out classed by most, but you nostalgia fags will go full reddit and memey "lol, Toriyama said so XD" Trying to defend this C tier power house. But hey, he can beat Carol Danvers. So there's your consolation prize.

these characters were moving faster than light back in dragonball when they were kids
tien did a solar flare, goku ran to the side of the ring, put on sunglasses, and ran back to where he was originally standing before the wave of light got to his eyes

The fact you equate this auto-dodge bull crap to something that matters. Oh lookie! Goku got stronger than before. Again. For the 10th time.

He can still die from a blaster shot, so it's all the same shit. Base, Super Saiyan, 3, blue, this new shit, the new shit to come, whatever comes after that.

The best one was when Super Saiyan Vegeta couldn't lift 1,000 tons. The salt was real that day.