An interesting take on broken Reed Richards who thinks that the end justifies the means and does unspeakable shit to...

>An interesting take on broken Reed Richards who thinks that the end justifies the means and does unspeakable shit to save his universe.
>Reduced to autistic Silver-age villain without any goal after Secret Wars
How do we fix him, Sup Forums?

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Except that was a shit take on him as well. Give me Hickman's Maker or give me nothing.

I meant the Hickman's run on Ultimates as well. Just got the random picture of Reed.

Then that's a simple in theory fix OP. Give him to a creator that understands him and a competent editorial staff that isn't going to insist on you reworking the property for ____ sake. Ewing I feel actually did but was held back by editorial and forced to twist him into a few things that don't work as well. Al Ewing is a sharp guy, but he doesn't have the clout to do whatever he wants with the toys. it's a different era.

>Reduced to autistic Silver-age villain without any goal after Secret Wars
He clearly had a goal though, the New Avengers' Maker was just a slice of what he used to be but his cosmic plan becomes clear in Ultimates^2

Maybe he didn't finish it and only saw things like forming that weird team of Revengers, abandoning the City/Children of Tomorrow stuff for the very silver age-y W.H.I.S.P.E.R. dong alot of bad puns (Reed is not a quippy guy in any incarnation) and also the weird thing where he was appearing in the Bendis Iron Man Books (But then whoops it was Mephisto, even if ewing refrenced he was appearing there)

I would like if Ewing could redeem Reed in the future, but 90% that it will never happen and Ultimate is gone forever.

>Maker wasn’t just his way of coping with losing Sue
>Maker wasn’t just him going along with “Kang” to get Sue back
>implying

He lost Sue because he became Maker, duh.

He lost her long before that. His whole Maker thing, before the Humphries retcon, screamed of him just trying to prove that he’s a badass and win her back.

no, he lost her because she was a cockseeking slut

It's all explained in Ultimates^2.
He's still the same guy who had similar goals, only being in 616 aka the universe with all sorts of weird comic book shit instead of a more grounded, science-based one made it so that his attempt to recreate the City resulted in campy acronym WHISPER and so on
But seriously read Ultimates^2 because it REALLY does him justice

I don't think The Maker as concieved by Hickman has anything to do with trying to win Sue back. In fact it's a cautionary tale of what happens to a Reed Richards that isn't kept human by the positive influences of people that love him. The Pre-Maker Evil Reed as written by Bendis in the Ultimate Doom trilogy, the one that gives that cringey line about THEY ARE RAPING SCIENCE. that guy is totally trying to get Sue back. and got Cucked by Ben in the process.

I liked it just fine user, Ewing seems to genuinely give an amount of care and concern to the creators that have come before him, he's a continuity heavy dude. Still, some characters have a voice so defined by one author it's hard to imagine anyone else doing anything right with them. After the Shumphries and ??? run (the guy that did the Galactus comes to the Ultimate U Event and the Ultimate FF run) when Hickman did that issue of New Avengers called "Over there" that followed Reed having a talk with Ultimate Nick Fury then changing the logo on his outfit and descending into his secret murder city to slay an alternate world, it was like going home. cue the Brokeback Mountain dialogue "I just can't quit you"

It kinda pisses me off that people get legit upset at the Ultimate Universe just because of "NOT MUH"

Post Marvel NOW 616 basically was the Ultimate U. thats why they wrapped it up. it was superfluous. Maybe not right this second with all this weird SJW shit, but AvX-Secret Wars 616 had the same tone basically, and so do the movies.

Good point. But still, if you take everything into account, it does seem a bit like he's just trying to be a big man. If he wanted to create the perfect society, he wouldn't have created the time bubble or set up shop in Earth. He wanted to rub it in the others' faces.

>Al Ewing is a sharp guy
No he isn't.

No, he became the Maker because Sue wasn't there to keep him in check anymore. Ironically, Sue becoming a huge cunt and Ben being a goddamn traitor, was what pushed him into becoming the Maker.

Well, X-Men and FF sucked. And after Ultimatum they even sucked more

Way to tell me Timmy. He's just a guy that has made a career as a novelist and comic book writer, lovingly delves into and respects continuity (to a fault) and seems happy and well adjusted in real life. I also refrained from commenting on whether he was a subjectively "good" writer, instead merely said he was an intelligent human. The internet was a mistake.

It's definitely a fuck you. I just think by the time Hickman got to writing him he wasn't concerned with any sort of romance with Sue or anyone else, you get the impression that any of that would be a weakness. Now, bending them to his ideology like he tries with Falcon and the Hulk...

Fialkov was after Hickman, user, as was all of the cool stuff with the ultimate Infinity Gauntlet

>Well, X-Men and FF sucked.
Early UF4 & UXM were pure greatness.

Yeah, by the time of the Incursions he was just numb. I mean, Kang and Miles Morhames told Sue that staying with Ben would destroy reality, and the stupid bitch stayed with him instead of Reed. That was the final nail in the coffin, really.

But man, how the fuck do you reject Reed and go for Ben fucking Grimm? It's not even a "slut wants some Chad dick" at this point, as Reed is, well, Reed. What the fuck was that about?

Ultimately it's at the feet of Bendis (Like many other sins) he thought he was being clever with the what if Ben Grimm's rock form was just a cocoon and what came out was SuperJew. I also think he has an inherent distrust of intelligent people.

I see what you mean but I disagree. Even ignoring the large number of hot blond females in his weird science cult since, hey, we could blame that on the artist, his entire plan as Maker came off as wanting to show off/show up/fuck up the world and everyone in it. His plan never needed a time bubble that let him pop back into the present after spending hundreds of years building up his City. A pocket dimension, a space colony, a secret enclave hidden somewhere on the planet like a good dozen or so villains or otherwise dubious characters already enjoy. It wasn't even essential to use the time bubble just to have him interact with people from the present. He could time travel to the past, they to the future, whatever.

The very specific nature of his plan to pop out after developing his tech for 1000 years and fuck shit up smacks of a revenge plot or otherwise to rub his superiority in the faces of everyone who had hurt him. It's like the ultimate fantasy of every nerd who has ever been picked on by a bully every day that he could one day get his super science revenge on the asshole. Oh, and get his girl back.

I think he was just self-inserting with Ben. Even when Sue broke up with Reed to find herself back in UF4, Ben was still nowhere in the picture. And in comes Bendis and Sue's like, super into, like, Ben. She like, loves him and proposes and shit.

>distrust of intelligent people
Maybe. It's why he likes street stuff so much I guess. What he did to Tony with ANAD was so fucking OOC I can't even come up with any excuses other than "got abducted in space and ANAD Tony is a Skrull" or "normal Tony came back as Superior and this Tony is the faulty AI occupying a flesh-body".

>Hot blondes in his weird science cult
My fuckin sides user, this is definitely a Hickman thing (See Black Swans in New Avengers, Dying and the Dead etc.) I think he does make it clear that the tech Reed uses is based on Time Bubbles and hyper evolving (or devolving ala Secret wars) but yeah, the only reason to place it on Earth at that point is for revenge. He clearly wants to usher in this perfect world over top of the pre existing one, I'm sure it comes from the mission statement of the baxter building think tank in the 1610 and proving to everyone they failed and he succeeded. I just don't see him caring about the girl anymore. Listen to how he talks to 616 Reed in Secret Wars. He's pretty disgusted with him for crying about Sue.

>Hickman is a Blondes guy
Truly /myguy/.

I hated it

Marvel has a shitload of evil genius types, evil scientists, and supersmat villain types. Reed was the one mad scientist that was somehow not retardedly evil for no actual reason. Then they decided to be fresh and original by making him retardedly evil.

Now he is just another Leader/MODOK/Wizard/Maximus/Sinister/Egghead/Thinker/Diablo/Zemo/Zola/ Maelstrom/Doc Oc/Dark Beast who simply does evil science because he is evil and does science

Of course he was. Ben literally hatched and Became Super-Hebrew. The first thing he does is cuck his nerd best friend, then they both admit they should have done it years ago. Even johnny is super excited about it. The only way this could have been more Author insert is if they adopted some black kids.

>Listen to how he talks to 616 Reed in Secret Wars. He's pretty disgusted with him for crying about Sue.

Have you considered the possibility that this wasn't Maker being over Sue at all but merely mocking someone else...for being exactly like himself. Imagine him saying all that as he cries into his own helmet as he's done for the last, what was it, two thousand years by that point? Hard to say given how often he recreates The City.

And people were talking about Bendis relaunching the FF before he left for DC. Jesus fuck, what a bullet that was dodged.

UltReed was a different story though, and he never really did mad science because he was evil. He was getting over a girl and wanted to prove he was better. It was a lab experiment. The Ultimates provoked him constantly.

Hmm, that's a good angle as well. "So sentimental, so soft, so... weak" does sound too edgy for Reed. Maybe he was just masking his lust.

>the F4 come back
>they restart the FF
>Lunella is da smartest and becomes Reed's favorite, as he forgets about Valeria
>Val goes to live with Uncle Doom
>Latveria is now governed by Kween Ree-Ree
>Val searches for all Marvel geniuses but finds wrecks (Pymtron), evil doppelagangers (Maker) and manchildren (ANAD Tony)
>in the end she gives up and fucks off to space

Last bit goes to Yeah, that whole bit was just awful in general. Why the fuck would a blonde bombshell supergenius richgirl ever date the dumb, plain army grunt? Much less propose to him?

>Maybe he was just masking his lust.
Or it could be, what, transference? Hypocrisy?

It's actually pretty funny, and frankly seems perfectly in keeping with how he would up, that he might actually see it as weakness and folly in other Reeds but when he does it it's super cool and badass. I mean truly they are the most meant to be of all time, clearly, or else he'd have been over her after the first two hundred years, right? This is the most pure, undying love ever, right Sue? Oh, right, you're dead and too busy giving a ghost blowjob to Ben. Well when he's done maybe she'll be up to hearing some of the love poems he recreated The City to write for him.

I'm about to sperg out user, Ultimate Reed is best Reed, stop making me think these things.

"City. You are the most perfect artificial intelligence ever conceived and it only took a thousand years for you to achieve perfection. Now it is time for you to fulfill your ultimate purpose. How do I get Sue to love me again?"
"Maker, have you ever tried not being a horrible person?"
"Haha, what's that, City? Destroy the world in a fit of autistic rage? SURE CAN DO! SHE'LL HAVE TO LOVE ME NOW!"

>He was getting over a girl and wanted to prove he was better.

So they made him into Doom?

Yes
Like two weeks before Hickman took over the property, the previous mini was called Ultimate Doom. or Maybe Doomsday. but it wasn't subtle. He's clearly supposed to be slowly turning into Doom.

where's this page from?

>human.exe crash
DELETE THIS

I read all of Ultimate FF4 and spiderman (pre-miles), what else from the ultimate universe is worth it?

Ultimatum

I'm re-reading all the Millar Post Ultimatum stuff right now. It's weird as fuck and has some bretty good Yu art.

The Ultimates 1-2 and some arcs from X-men were solid.

"City!"
...
"CITY WAKE THE F@CK UP!"
"Maker."
"Why the Hell is Sue all over Ben's rock/plasma dick?! My dick literally stretches to infinity!"
"Have you entertained the idea that she enjoys his easy-going personality more than your muderous rampages?"
"So what you're saying is that I need to find a way to turn my dick into rock/plasma while ALSO keeping its stretching capabillities!"
"Mak-"
"YES THAT IS THE ANSWER! TRULY, THAT IS THE TRUTH CITY! SUE WILL NOT BE ABLE TO RESIST THE ULTIMATE DICK NOW!"
"Maker, the dick is not what makes or breaks a relationship."
"All my research on the matter, by watching internet porn, has informed that yes, a dick IS what makes or breaks a relationship. So, sincerely City, FUCK YOU!"

>and then he has sex with Ben to "combine their genetics" despite knowing full well that isn't how genetic engineering works

>Reed rapes Ben to death Hentai style
FTFY

The Thing is as strong as the Hulk.

There, I made things better for the FF4 and they'll still screw it up.

>Reed wishes he had an infinitely stretching anus to withstand Ben's Grimm Thing
Fixed that FTFY

Maker literally was knocking Ben around though. The guy could probably wrap his dick around Ben's and break it.

>while Reed screams, "Who's cucking whom now, Sue!?"
>Sue just shakes her head

>Ben isn't even fucking Reed
>Reed has created extra hands that manually push Ben back and forth
>Sue is kinda turned on, honestly

At least we got some cool body horror out of it.

...

Being Tony is suffering, no matter the Universe...

...

...

Let's try this a little different
>Reed stretches a part of himself so that it looks like Ben, paints it purple, and has it pound him while sue watches

Fuck, Ult!Sue really is fucking hot. If I was Reed, I'd honestly not have gotten over her either. I mean, she's both a super-genius and a bombshell blonde. Reed really did hot the lottery, powers included. Her dumping him made 0 sense.

But aain, Giandomenico drw one hot fcking Sue.

Wait, is this being written by Hickman or Bendis? I've lost track.

>Sue eventually gets tempted and joins in
>I mean, Fake or Real, she's still TECHNICALLY still fucking Ben, not Reed

Fialkov, when it all came to a head in Ultimates.

I remember all the people freaking out over this because Reed had already invented a button that defeated Sue's powers.

>this Sue is actually also part of Reed with painted on "blond" hair

>Main!Reed ends up crying admist hurling insults at Reed!Sue and Reed!Ben
>still doesn't stop the freakshow
>meanwhile City watches and records everything
>it's what it shows to the Children to get them to boot Maker in Ultimates #12
New headcanon accepted.

Funny thing is, that was in a Bendis book. Someone else ignored Bendis' continuity instead of Bendis ignoring someone else's. POTTERY.

WHISPER was the organization. The 616 version of The City was The Organo-Mechanic Nexus-Iterated Techno-Radical Organizational Networked Intelligent Computer Unity System. Or "O.M.N.I.T.R.O.N.I.C.U.S"

>and seems happy and well adjusted in real life.

Talk to him at the bar for 5 min & you realize he's an autist AND a retard.

Wait Sue proposed to Ben? Fucking KEK

...

You don't. After Humphries got his hands on him, it was too late.
>reduced to a whinging beta while Ult! Sue, the hugest cunt in the multiverse, gloats over her Deus Ex Machina asspull victory
>in the same issue where a depowered Thor oneshots a giant Ultimate Hulk and Tony Stark's sentient brain tumor convinces Reed's loyal race of perfect superhumans to turn on him
The character is irreparably ruined, and Hickman got fucking screwed.

So they created another evil Reed who is now something like the Master?
Booring.
youtube.com/watch?v=6-UUTGamYp8

You can't. They made him too OP in his first appearance, there was no way to defeat him that wouldn't annoying.

HA! I am so lad I wasn't drinking anything when I read this.

Damn, Reed got cucked hard. Not only she refused his proposal, she actually proposed to Ben. WEW!

Jesus Christ!

Make him more like Reid