Why did the X-Men stayed just as/became even more popular when Claremont left run while the Teen Titans never were able...

Why did the X-Men stayed just as/became even more popular when Claremont left run while the Teen Titans never were able to retain their Sliver Age popularity when Wolfman/Perez left?

titans weren't as popular as the x-men, they didn't have a break out star like wolverine, and most of the runs since have ranged from boring to bad.

i've got that comic signed but claremont and simonson. great book.

Titans were always shit
LoSH was the better franchise and DC wasted them with Waid

The X-Men were a better concept than the child sidekicks of the Justice League?

A better concept will fly further with lesser talent aboard.

short answer is they had no icon star to carry them. Wolverine carried the book.

The premise of X-Men is ripe for exploitation. Need more characters? Hey look these guys are mutants too, throw them in the cast with no background necessary.

Teen Titans on the other hand, there's only so many side kicks and only so many times you can make a new character's origin and motivation now boring.

It's worth noting that this entire story could have been told with just Darkseid crossing into Marvel. The Teen Titans afre pretty much just there in this volume.

One group is just a bunch of sidekicks trying to make a name for themselves
The other group is an allegory to world racism,sexism, identity crisis and growing up all mix into one package called "mutants"

Oh yeah also Wolverine and (at the time) much easier to follow continuity.

Teen Titans are more comparable The New Mutants, which faded into obscurity much more after the 80's. X-Men were Marvel's Justice League, not just child b-listers of cooler heroes.

New Mutants didn't fade, they got murdered by a jack ass that wanted his own superhero team and high jack the book turning it into X-Force.

>The New Mutants, which faded into obscurity much more after the 80's
actually they were a top selling book until Rob "I ruin everything I touch" Liefeld got pushy about wanting his own book.

New Mutants became X-Force and lasted till about 98.

And here I thought I had enough reasons to hate Liefield

Their sales declines a lot in the mid-80's. Liefield actually made them much more popular then they've been in years when he brought Cable into it. Though that doesn't make it better quality-wise.

X-Men was more popular already, Plus it had more successful spinoffs, a massively hyped relaunch, a successful cartoon, and of course Wolverine.

I still like Reboot

>those pages where Deathstroke and a few demons make the x-men look like chumps
>starfire kissing Peter to learn Russian
>Garth implying that he and Wolverine might be related
That crossover was fun as fuck

Because Claremont was replaced by the most popular creator of the last 50 years maybe ever.

You know New Mutants never went away they just changed the title to X-Force which was like the 2nd biggest selling #1 issue of all time...

I didn't know Neil Gaiman wrote the X-men in the 90s!

>Because Claremont was replaced by the most popular creator of the last 50 years maybe ever.

L O B D E L L
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That's a testament to Rob's popularity and the Marvel Machine they took a book with Boom Boom Cannonball Sunspot and literal whos some only debuting or being reintroduced a month prior and selling 5 million copies.

You can't poo poo that

X-Force isn't New Mutants. Canonball is the only New Mutant that was on X-Force. Characters that joined in the last dozen issues of NM before they turned into X-Force don't count.

Titans were definitely DC's biggest book during the early/mid-'80s. The shit part is that book was supposed to be X-Men/LoSH with Claremont/Cockrum before DC higher ups decided to use the Titans instead solely because it was their most popular book at the time.

What? No sales were down until Liefeld came on. Liefeld was a big name artist and was able to do the whole "reboot the book into X-Force" thing for a reason you clown.

New Mutants sales were shit before Rob got put on the book. Thats why they let him do whatever the fuck he wanted to. His changes made the book actually sell again

This thread turning into a New Mutants discussion further proves how irrelevant Teen Titans are. Enjoy your toddler cartoon though.

The Titans are actually a terrible franchise that only one good run in the 80s. No one cares about the original incarnation and no one cares about the new incarnations that came afterwards so everyone ends up imitating the 80s cast which got streamlined and cemented thanks to the cartoon.

>tfw X-men belongs to Marvel
>tfw Spider-man belongs to Marvel

X-men wouldn't work in the DCU, civilians are a lot more tolerant of freaks and weirdoes, which is weird since DC is sometimes painted as the more right-leaning of the Big Two.

because the x-men are cool and the teen titans are kind of lame lol

Dc is turning the genpop against the heroes in Doomsday Clock

Marvel kept putting talent on the X-Men, even if the stories weren't great sometimes, and their popularity continued past the 80s and into the 90s thanks to new characters (Gambit, Cable, and ect.) and the influx of other media in the form of video games and the X-Men Animated Series. Then they still had characters like Wolverine that could have carried the franchise on his own too, but the X-Men were a constant focus and Marvel continued to add new characters and X-Men books and kept growing the franchise.

The NTT was moving the Titans away from being knockoff versions of the JL with new non legacy characters outnumbering the old legacy characters, and Dick and Wally moving on from their sidekick roles. Problem is that their stories became horrible and plagued by editorial problems. Then they continued to fail at creating new and interesting characters. There is a big chunk of time where they just stagnated and nothing of value was created.

Then the late 80s and 90s came and Batman exploded with iconic comics, live action movies, and animated series. DC focused even more resources into his franchise and the Titans became less important. They had barely any other media focus during that time and became a bit forgotten. Even the JL got a renewed focus because that is Batman's team. Also with Dick moving on from Robin (and Batman editorial) the Titans' connection to Batman and DC's focus was hurt and that is when you saw Tim's modern take on Robin take full advantage of the Batman explosion. Robin wasn't part of the Titans now but Robin became a solo character and had his own mini JL team in young justice which was a competing book for the Titans. Even Wally as Flash was moved away from the Titans brand to be used in the JL more. Even Dick got taken back by Batman editorial in the 90s.

So the Titans had no direction and no outlet for other media exposure. So the market moved on to other books and characters by the time they rebooted the franchise in the 00s.

New Titans was DC's best selling book ag it's time.

>"right wing" can only mean "hating anything different than yourself."
There are multiple to ways to "accept mutants" from a right wing perspective.
1. Mutants have power and power is its own justification.
2. Mutants are proof that race, and individual differences as a whole, are not merely a "social construct."
3. Government registration of mutants/heroes is always shown to be a disaster
4. Individualism
5. Super teams are a well regulated civilian militia.

the titans helped stretch the book twenty pages by being incomptent

Titans is weird in that there's a lot of characters in the franchise I like but most of them have never been in good stories/runs to do anything with. I liked some of the Jurgens era characters (Prism, Argent and Risk specifically) either due to designs or liking the concepts (hey, a white trash dude who's a good guy and not a gibbering idiot and joke... well, pre-Johns anyway) but the execution is just never good.

is correct

Batman and Batfags ruined everything like they always do.
Had the 2003 TT cartoon basically happened in 1993 DC would've put more effort into the Titans franchise.

X-Men had more breakout characters who stayed on the team and got a lot more merchandising and adaptations to reinforce that popularity. The Titans lacked any major breakout character, its membership was less stable and have only found success above the cult level after TTG.

Teen Titans has only one good story.

LoSH is far too retarded to ever catch on again.

Nightwing and Deathstroke are the two biggest characters to come out of the NTT series. Now Nightwing is much more of a Batman character than a Titan character and Deathstroke is more of a general DCU villain than a Titan villain these days. The franchise couldn't stay relevant enough to even keep its most noteworthy characters.

delet this

I miss when the main buying power rested with people who liked outlandish silliness.

That was when kids and teenagers were the primary audience.

x-men had wolverine and got jim lee to draw it

This is correct.

Plus, I also think Teen Titans suffered from its lack of connection to Superman.

Superman is one of DC's most iconic characters and the most important part of DC's mythos. And while Teen Titans had a connection to both Batman and Wonder Woman (with Dick and Donna respectively) it didn't have a connection to Superman (why Supergirl wasn't made a member of the Teen Titans is beyond me). And I feel this was always going to hamstring the Teen Titans from becoming bigger than they were.

>Sliver Age

Hurm.

They kept Wolfman on the book far too long and he ran it into the ground, it was unfixable shit by the time he left. But yeah like others have said X-Men is a complete concept with an entirely original cast and conflict while Teen Titans at its core is just another superhero team, nothing unique drives them. I am not knocking NTT though, this was one of the first comics I ever read along with X-Men, I considered them both equally good.

No.

lol my next guess was going to be alan moore

FIRST CAME SEPHIROTH

yeah man don't you know? Mr. Freeze is responsible for snow covered land cards

>muh libshits r tollerant

"Bouncing Boy."

Nice company war, bros.

Titans, like Legion, never fully recovered from the disastrous move to take them off the newstand/force newstand only readers to have to wait a full year to have the direct market books reprinted on the newstand.

The move wholesale killed the Outsiders but Legion and New Titans never recovered one they were yanked from newstand.

>Claremont leaves
>the whole franchise goes to hell
>nowadays Titans books and cartoons still exist whereas mutants cannot sell anymore
Really makes you think.

Wolfman and Perez go and take a bunch of sidekicks, some new characters, and a couple of nobodies for the team. It's well rounded and each character is interesting by their strengths and flaws.
Cyborg is arguably the powerhouse of the team, and yet he is a very angry individual who fucking hates his life.
Robin is easily the most experienced, right next to Kid Flash, but both live in their hero's shadow.
For Kid Flash, he has to deal with the legacy of carrying the entire Flash mantle after Barry died in Crisis while also going his own identity crisis what with the fact that he's not really a kid anymore.
Robin is trying to branch out from Batman and is better off compared to Wally, but he forces himself to be the leader of the team when he clearly is in way over his head.
Starfire is an alien war machine who follows a philosophy devoted to compassion and understanding.
Raven is the literal daughter of a demon, using powers that are literally evil in origin to try and do good and defy her ultimate fate of becoming like her father.
This is a team. These are well thought out characters. Each is unique, each has their own personality, and most importantly their personalities and backgrounds lend themselves to great character arcs. And each character is interacting with other members, their identities clashing just as much as they clash against the forces of evil. None of them are perfect, but as we read about their adventures and connect to their personalities we feel for them when they try to overcome their problems. You grow with the characters.
Compare this to everything going on with Marvel. Specifically the quasi-team found in Wasp but also Champions. Who are these people? Why should we care? Why are they important? They're all the same "misunderstood/misrepresented teen hero" archetype just with a different costume

because based DC doesn't need to bribe the critics

>NTT
>not Doom Patrol
Why is OP such a marlelfag, i.e. a casual?

Doom Patrol was never competition for X-Men like LOSH and NTT were.

>muh sales
Definitely a marlelfag.

You'd think at a time when the public cannot get enough of 1) sci-fi blockbusters and 2) superhero stories that a setting of a club of young superheroes (of which both superboy and supergirl are members) would be an easy sell.

Combined with the recent proven appeal of young-teen stories via Stranger Things and IT... surely someone at DC is pitching a LSH revival right now as "Stranger Things meets the Avengers"

Millenial. You're fucking stupid.

They were sexy af, bro.

>Cyborg is arguably the powerhouse of the team

OK. I'll argue that.

Cyborg was *never* shown as the powerhouse of the team. Donna was shown as the strongest, the brick of the team in strength and durability. You might think that Vic came in second but it was shown several times that Starfire possessed superhuman strength and durability as well, not to Donna's level but she added more than enough offensive firepower to make up for it.

Vic brought to the table... not much. minor superhuman strength, and he could hop around while Donna and Kory flew. The one thing, the ONE thing he brought to the table was always bringing out his "white noise cannon", basically he had Green Arrow's sonic arrow, whoopee.

For the life of me I have no idea how you read NTT and came away thinking Vic was the powerhouse of the team.

Stranger Things doesn't have over one hundred kids in the main cast.

>I have no idea
I know.

>Teen Titans at its core is just another superhero team, nothing unique drives them.

It's worse than that. They're the "kid sidekicks that grew up" team. That's a very dull concept.

If the X-Men are so good, why aren't they selling like hotcakes? Checkmate, mousefags.

>LoSH gets mentioned
>best legionfu gets posted
I see you're a man of culture as well.

They still are Marvel's top selling comics. Marvel comic in general sell like shit these days.

not yet

well if they start off with the big three legionaries they could slowly add all 900000 characters as the show goes on.

Why wasn't Mary Marvel ever in the Titans or Young Justice? I'd have preferred to seeing her always on the verge of being molested in some other guys books.

That's Ike's witchcraft at eork