People bitch about going off-model, so why does no one give Flapjack shit for it?

People bitch about going off-model, so why does no one give Flapjack shit for it?

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Because the creator himself wanted people to only copy the rough sketches and draw how they wanted to draw.

isn't that the exact same thing sugar wants her storyboarders to do?

It's beem.dead for almost a decade.

And the exact same thing as Ian JQ, who has never had a defined set style for KO since it seems to change with every single incarnation of it? The old CN pilot was different from the first episode, the online shorts were all different styles, both games are different styles.

Judging by all those familiar names, you'd think people would be shitting on Flapjack still for being "birth of CalArts" instead of Adventure Time.

Because this looks good, and SU doesn't.

Flapjack ended and is mostly well regarded.
SU has an actively cancerous fanbase, and the off-model is a lot more directly noticeable what with characters shrinking and growing at random.

The main reason Steven Universe gets shit for being off-model is because of how grounded the show tries to be. If the show were just Uncle Grandpa-esque slapstick, I doubt anyone would care that the characters sometimes had heads three times the size of their body. The contrast between the tone and art style makes it noticeable.

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I’m going go out on limb and say that depending how realistic the series is, I know that there both cartoons and there not at all suppose to be realistic, but Steven Universe is in a setting that suppose to be a little bit more realistic than flapjack, that’s why when flapjack goes off model it’s not that jarring because the reality of flapjack is more surreal, as oppose to Steven universe where the story takes place in a real world setting like ours

KO is way more comedic and slapstick-driven and people still give it shit for being off-model.

I wouldn't be able to tell that was off model without paying close attention to the animation.
In steven universe you would have to be an idiot not to notice.

Flapjack off model is a weakness of the show while steven universe off model is a major flaw.

Flapjack was all about jokes and gross creepy stuff, going off model helped make the jokes funnier and the gross stuff grosser.
Steven Universe is a show that wants to have an actual overarching plot and character arcs, unlike Flapjack, it wants to be taken seriously. Having the character models constantly change for no reason is just distracting, and detracts from the impact of emotional scenes.

This, some shows can get away with being off model if it doesn't affect the feel of the story. SU really wants to be a story-driven show, if its off model it takes you out of the story.

It's because people don't actually care about animation quality and are just looking for an excuse to shit on Steven Universe

Yeah but Flapjack was actually funny

Because Steven universe is directly to blame for its off model.

Those people are retarded

Because Flapjack isn't suddenly bigger than K'nuckles

Does anyone ever really talk about flapjack at all?

Loved the show. but it doesn't tend to really spark much discussion.

I remember back on Toon Zone, people would complain about how inconsistent Eris looked between episodes in Billy and Mandy. It really comes down to how well the show can pull it off.

Flapjack was a purely comedic series, the off-model drawings added visual humor to the episodes and since the characters are so simple there was not a lot of room to screw up the character's proportions.

The same can be said about Ren and Stimpy, Tiny Toons, and other cartoons some present as "evidence" that going off-model is a good thing or not new

Steven Universe is more like a slice of life mixed with dramatic space opera, It was more forgivable in the first season when the show was not that into showing the gem's backstory or, you know, having an ongoing plot. Back then the show was simple and kinda boring.

Now the show wants people to take it seriously, adding visual inconsistencies feels weird, having drama next to Connie's horribly oversized head Is bad since people need realism and consistency to fully assimilate drama, even if there is light comedy added to it.

This is more of a thematic problem than a technical one, the more grounded in reality (both in concept and setting) the least amount of liberties you can have in both writing and art style, if you go too far the suspension of disbelief of the espectator will be shattered, something really bad for a drama heavy series.

the loose style doesn't look good during fight scenes

Because the people that complain about it now weren't around when the show premiered.

As an unwashed casual, I look at OP's image, and I'm not seeing a huge difference. Knuckles is floppy by nature and all the characters are squishy and deform a bit. They're all instantly recognizable.

Perhaps it's the difference between going sligthly outside the lines and going offroad through grandma's flowers and giving no fucks.

I don't really give a shit about whether something is on model or not, but some shit looks bad, or wrong, or off, and there's some shit in stephen universe and adventure time that look absolutely terrible.

Because it doesn't have gay people in it so people don't look for excuses to bitch.

There is nothing wrong with going off model as long as the character is recognizable

Because it's an episodic comedy show, not a show that tries to be taken seriously with an overarching story and progressive messages.

SUfags really are a special breed of stupid.

because it's not a currently running show. It's obvious that people complain because they invested too much into a children's show that was doomed to disappoint them. Sup Forums is a fucking joke.

>jojo poster calling other fanbases stupid

im going to guess that no one gives much of a fuck about flapjack.
but everyone wants to kick SU around, for whatever reason comes up. personally I dont get it, there are plenty of good reasons to hate SU without worrying about model

Multiple people have pointed out that OK KO gets shit on for the same thing though, and that's an episodic comedy show.

Well it takes one to know one

There's a difference between going off-model for a gag, and then going off-model out of sheer laziness and incompetence.

Because KO looks really bad

So Flapjack was off-model for laziness also? Because the style changes in OP aren't for jokes.

The styles in the OP look all almost the same. There aren't a big differences.

You do realize that off-model emphasize emotion and add an extra bit of hilarity to the scene? And they aren't in any way as extreme as Steven Universe or OK KO.

In the shot I provided, Mr. Gar and Carol were just talking next to each, but they made Mr. Gar tiny just so they couldn't make the shot wider. That's literal laziness.

No, because despite different but somewhat similar styles between the different boarders in Flapjack, it still looked good and pleasing to the eye

Back in my day we used to call it ‘quality’
Also Sup Forums likes to bitch about SU as much as possible

>Back in my day we used to call it ‘quality’
nobody in Sup Forums is allowed to call old cartoons "quality". Transformers and GI Joe literally had characters running through walls and changing colors in the middle of scenes.

Beacuse it's a comedy.

Lmao these few mistakes, at least you can still tell it's flapjack and knuckles, theyre all their same basic shape,different art styles.

But that's just like You can still tell this is Carol and Gar, theyre all their same basic shape, different art styles

literally not off model

What does the term "off-model" mean to you?

>So Flapjack was off-model for laziness also?

Lazy: Things go off-model for a scene because it's easier/better to cheat than to stay on model.

Style: Things go off-model for an episode but the episode is still internally consistent. These are not usually small things either, but big changes that are fairly obvious even to casual watchers.

Lazy is usually done because someone in the early stages wasn't doing their job. Either a director or an animation supervisor. And we are on such tight deadlines that changing it would be too time consuming. Style is usually a choice made early on that we want to happen.

I dont watch SU, so I can't say which it is. but that's the difference.
Although based on some of the stuff I've seen I'd guess SU changes are mostly lazy, with maybe some being stylistic choices where the show runners thought they could get away with pulling off some sophisticated style changes but were too stupid to do it properly.

Despite different but somewhat similar styles between the different boarders in OK KO, it still looks good and pleasing to the eye.

KO looks like shit, man.

To you. I like the show's looseness. Cartoons should look fun, not boring!

Am I going nuts? Because that’s what the quality threads were all about, animation errors.

Since you don't watch SU you probably don't know this fact:

The showrunners have stated SEVERAL times that it's their intention for he show to go off-model, that the characters do not have set heights, and every show is in the drawing style of the original artist.

Because there are no waifus in Flapjack besides Candy Wife and she was always on-model

Whether or not I intended to smear shit on the wall doesn't make the room smell any better.

KO's offmodel boarding and fight scenes are distractingly bad, like, really really bad and I can't even watch it.
SU's off model boarding and fight scenes are less bad but are mostly annoying because the show isn't a straight up comedy like Flapjack and KO, the shitty art can ruin moments that are supposed to be feel sy or dramatic, Crack the Whip and Earthlings for example suffered the most from this.

I think the reason people didn't care as much when SU would go off model in the first season is because the first season was generally more light hearted.

Because, apart from Bubby who is supposed to be an amorphous blob, they at least remained proportionate to each other and their surroundings.

>was generally more light hearted
People keep saying that but do they keep forgetting dramatic moments in stuff like:
>So Many Birthdays
>Bubble Buddies
>Lars and the Cool Kids
>Cat Fingers

That was pretty early on.

Flapjack never tried to take it's self seriously. It's the same reason Sup Forums isn't as hard on OK KO as it is on SU. if you are going to do a show with high stakes, how can take you seriously if you don't even treat the art style seriously?

It's really obvious and everyone knows it, some people just refuse to acknowledge it as a flaw. Steven Universe is tone-deaf

These

There's really nothing to discuss

Adventure Time takes itself more serious than Flapjack but its art style is even sillier so that argument hardly stands.

There's leaving it for interpretation, and then there is just not giving a fuck

Because it added to the sort of grungy and disturbing vibe Flapjack had.

Flapjack’s appeal was always rooted in imperfection (same with Rugrats, Ren and Stimpy, etc.)

SU and AT has loose rules on how to draw characters, but the boarders just say, “fuck it” and proceed to ignore even the most basic shit, like what height some of the characters should be.

How many times has finn completely changed proportions? Where are the shots where marceline is shorter than finn for no reason?

This is like Disney shills shitting on the Prequels to distract from how terrible The Last Jedi is.

Adventure Time takes itself seriously about a tenth of the time, and is still somehow more uniform than Steven Universe was in its fourth season.

because it was done by talented artists and not people like this

>most successful film to date
>shitty

alright goodbye

Cause its a comedy from start to finish in trying to clone Spongebob

Okay so here's the thing
Flapjack, Bubbie, and Knuckles always have the same kind of size ratio to one another.

Steven Universe for instance, does not (See shrinking Peridot).

You CAN go off model for animation, it's fine especially for certain expressions that are better when they're off model (For a good example look at Spongebob, especially earlier spongebob where they just didn't give a fuck and got scary).

The problem with Steven Universe, a show I do enjoy but am frustrated with, is they have zero guidelines set, seemingly, for drawing these characters consistently. It looks sloppy and is more like something you'd expect from a web cartoon where the small team of creators are growing rapidly so the style is changing.

The people working on SU should be at a skill level where they can follow a damn guideline, especially considering they don't do all of the animation, Koreans do.

If you can't even stay on some form of model for key frames and stpryboards, you are a shit animator. Period.

Wasn't the point of my argument but here's one. Can't say I recall that many times since unlike you, I'm not bothered by it. Also, PB's body type has constantly changed across different episodes.

this kills the SUfag
youtube.com/watch?v=4Ah2I166f_U

Still more than Flapjack so my point still stands.

No adjusted for inflation the most successful is still the first Star Wars

Underrated post

Not really. If your show is 90% comedy it makes sense to have a silly artstyle. Add that to the fact that pretty much every "serious" AT moment exploits the contrast between what's happening and the usual silliness of the show for effect and there's no contradiction.

Except at this point the show's been like 40% comedy.

>there will never be an episode where the Joes raid beach city and experiment on the Gems to see if they could be used in the fight against Cobra

That's hyperbolic, and are you suggesting they should have changed the artstyle completely five seasons into the show?

>most successful film to date
>made literally half of TFA

Like your proposed percentage wasn't. And no, I'm saying the opposite, that artstyle doesn't always reflect tone.

I'd argue the reason the off model Steven Universe scenes are so jarring is because the backgrounds are so consistent. Like for example, it looks like the characters are much shorter because the camera's perspective is supposed to be higher, but they used that same damn angle of the donut shop they always use. The fact board styles change is less an issue so much as they just need to get their fucking heights right in relation to the background shots they're always re-using. It's less an issue in because all the shots are in the water or on a dock or inside a whale, not these detailed background images of kitchen cabinets or donut shop shelves.

Of course they also have the issue of small Mario/big Mario, but those would also be fixed if they just payed attention to everyone's height in relation to everyone else. Changing styles between artists is fine. Fucking up basic perspective shots is not.

Personally I blame art teachers, of which I can think of two stereotypes: the hippie liberal "everything is art" type who hand out gold stars for anything, and the nazi-esque ones who tell you you're drawing wrong and kill any sense of enjoyment for it. I can't help but feel like the ones being shat out by cal arts are the former, and missing some very basic but critical skills because of it.

This, DESU. Also despite the different styles things like, say, character heights remain roughly the same; K'nuckles is always taller than Flapjack.

That's NOT the case with SU.

Yes it is, relative heights in SU are always the same.

When is Steven ever taller than Pearl? And don't show me those examples where Lapis is half an inch shorter than Pearl, and then is at the same height of Pearl. I want to see a shortstack like Flapjack-type character who is taller than someone like K'nuckles that you claim exists.

I'm just going to say what we're all thinking.
It's because most of the SU artists can't draw for shit.

Going mildly or even completely off model isn't necessarily bad. Even at it's worst Flapjack charters still generally look decent and stayed consistent in their own episode. Another example is Space Dandy an anime which utilized Sugar's philosophy of allowing storyboarders and artists to deviate from the style and this created some very stellar and distinct episodes.

When SU goes off model it just plain looks bad. They not only stay off model from the rest of the show they stay off model from the entire episode. Most of the major problems come largely to the fact that the artists don't seem to really get perspective so the relative size of objects and characters as well as their movements looked fuck.

I don't think SU storyboarders are lazy. I just think their plain old bad.

becuase this was more of a arthouse/lite-horror cartoon and not the story/character driven story show SU is

if SU was purely a comedy it would be fine but not as a drama which is what it primarily is

Why do people always abbreviate "Steven Universe"? How lazy can you get?

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>but they made Mr. Gar tiny just so they couldn't make the shot wider. That's literal laziness.
actually that's consistent with how that particular boarder was drawing Gar earlier in the ep

it's this.

- Flapjack it's a comedy and it doesn't take itself seriously at all, unlike SU
- The weird cartoony animation was a big part in it's comedy in SU it isn't.

Because Flapjack is good

i always hated pen's knuckles design

This is true but SU's art is also pretty bad

AT does have it's off model things too (mostly in terms of Finn's height, he goes from being a head taller than Bubblegum to being just as tall as her depending on the episode) but as a fan of both AT and SU it isn't anywhere near as distracting as with SU. I actually find the way AT does it to be kind of nice, when it isn't being blatantly awful like when Xayaphone draws Finn to be a fridge.

AT takes itself as seriously as SU does, but even with their flaws the art isn't anywhere as bad as SU is. Though I think they have an easier job because most AT characters are a lot easier to draw than SU characters, but still the SU boarders should be able to draw the characters without them looking like shit and becoming midgets or getting gigantic hair out of nowhere.

I agree with this.

I used to defend SU's off model art because I thought it was kind of fun but it's become detrimental to the episodes.

A character like Peridot simply being drawn short and squishy when they want her to be goofy and non-threatening, then taller and sturdier when they want her to be taken seriously is so, so lazy.

Just like the rest of the show.

AT has gotten lazy about certain things too but the art at least isn't distracting.