What is the pinnacle of the comic book medium?

What is the pinnacle of the comic book medium?

Young Blood

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Manga.

Graphic Novels such as American Born Chinese, A Contract with God, etc.

Cerebus the Aardvark

Gillen's JiM

Carl Barks’ Donald Duck comics

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Whoa Nellie!

Claremont X-men

its a very, very good comic.
its ruined by moorefags who literally cannot stop guzzling his cum and cant take any criticism about his work, ESPECIALLY watchmen

Defintely agree with Watchmen obviously, Sandman, Jimmy Corrigan, Asterios Polyp, New Gods, Planetary, Love and Rockets, Swamp-Thing. I'd add Fantastic Four by Kirby and Lee, Astro City, The Multiversity and American Splendour

You won't see anybody recommend it on Sup Forums

And CERTAINLY not from fucking Sup Forumsss, of all places.

Final Crisis.

OP said "pinnacle" not "rock bottom"

>pretentious social aggrandizing
>good

Get your priorities straight.

This. You may not agree but this is what peak performance looks like.

not even Moore's best work

what is

Not him but I'd give it to Swamp Thing.

Blacksad

>every genre you can imagine
>capable of complex and challenging storylines
>something for all ages
>positive perception by native culture
>consumed internationally at high rates
>no incoming writer hand-wave of established norms, every story remains consistently under one guiding mind from start to finish
>far more creator control over properties
>better integration into multimedia endeavors
Manga is everything that comics were meant to be. It's objectively the pinnacle of the medium, and western comics will never be as well off or achieve anywhere near as much.

Yeah but it's so embarrassing and lame though!

2dcloud and Fantagraphics release things more interesting than any manga, with less lewd underage kids too

>all manga is about toddlerporn
Okay so I don't agree with that guy but you're an idiot.

America

Are there any English translations out yet? Looking to browse/buy it at some point, but I don't know a lick of French.

>A swamp monster fighting zombies, vampires and Werewolves is truly a literary masterpiece.
This is why people don't take comics seriously.

Jungle Fantasy

>I can't read so I'll just make fun of the pictures!
That's okay user.

American Flagg

>every genre you can imagine
>capable of complex and challenging storylines
>something for all ages
Same for comics
>positive perception by native culture
Who the fuck cares?
>no incoming writer hand-wave of established norms, every story remains consistently under one guiding mind from start to finish
Quit reading Capeshit.
>far more creator control over properties
In Japan they're even more of the editor's bitch so try again.
>better integration into multimedia endeavors
>It's better because they chug out out adaptations 24/7
What?

It's published by Dark Horse. They have a hardcover collection of the first three stories, and have also published the remaining two.

Content =/= form.

Better than cape shit.

>capeshit is bad because I said so!

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Hellboy

There isnt one, because taste is subjective and a medium is an incredibly wide ranging, constantly shifting thing. So finding one work which can be universally agreed upon as the best is impossible.

I dont think one should be sought out either, as it will inevitably result in a mass of poor imitations of that work instead of trying to make something new.

All-Star Superman

The art in manga and anime is fucking garbage, it's a crime to humanity.

Fucking manchild.

Supreme and animal man are top capeshit, but far from the greatest thing you can do with the medium

The manga industry is superior, that's not up to debate, but still you are comparing it with murrikan capeshit. I'm still more inclined to euro, mostly french and italian.

Swamp Thing and Miracleman still contain trappings of their genre, so objectively, it cannot be above Watchmen. Both of them are top tier capeshit though, and depend a lot on plot twists and big fight scenes. People who prefer them are ones who think LoTR and Harry Potter are literature.

This

No colors

Not counting the faces, most of their drawings are top notch

Watchmen is the most concise example.

I think Cerebus is the greatest work in the medium, but damn near a thousand pages of it are, uh, subpar. It's still that good but it's hard to recommend in that respect.

Best concise comic series: Watchmen
Best longish comic series: Sandman
Best longform comic series: Cerebus

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You know you're a filthy liar, and you know how shitty comics are compared to manga. It's the slow creep of acceptance that will hurt you more, rather than just acknowledging it outright when you know it's objectively true.

Not him, but your argument is retarded.

I actually got bored baiting Moore's fans. Some meat is just to easy.

People take film seriously, user. How the fuck is that going recently?
The ghetto is best.

Anybody?

Well it's the only Clowes worth a fuck, anyway.

>people in costumes beating a metrosexual would-be alexander is a literary masterpiece
This is why people can't take the comics genre seriously.

If you can't refute what I'm saying then don't bother posting.

More like Charles Burns lite. Ice Haven and The Death Ray are Clowes' best.

The core issue is that YOU didn't refute anything. Your replies were 3-4 word statements backed up by nothing, and pretty much completely bullshit or indifference to the shortcomings of western comics. You're basically a -1/10 troll that was probably told his whole life how special and smart he was, then when it comes down to providing substance in an argument you can't do it.

Watchmen depends entirely on the trappings of the genre to function.

You alright there user? Where's all this projecting coming from?

>get insulted
>claim projection
It's really brave of you to leave your safe space to make such cutting observations.

Maybe Sandman: Overture, in terms of pure beauty.
I'm happy to be proven wrong though, if anyone has anything comparable.

No, this is.

So are a lot of things, but Capeshit isn’t your only competitor here.
>Capeshit isn’t bad because I said so
Kek.

I don't think the pinnacle of comic books is Watchmen. Watchmen is too much of a deconstruction and commentary of the medium to be the peak of it.

I'd personally put 52 at the peak of capeshit; and then probably Sandman or Lucifer as the peak of 'pretentious artsy fantasy'.

>I'd personally put 52 at the peak of capeshit; and then probably Sandman or Lucifer as the peak of 'pretentious artsy fantasy'.

Manchildren are so fucking retarded.

user you're rambling at this point.

No comic has made me feel a greater variation of emotions

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Usagi Yojimbo

Seriously, tell me something that is truly better.

Aren’t those both from by Rosa though?

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The story telling, art, direction...it's about one of the finest comic books ever made. Stan Sakai is top tier.

This is the most pretentious post I've ever seen. You must be a complete assclown IRL.

Excellent rebuttal friend.
52 achieved a weekly serialization with compelling characters, excellent use of foreshadowing and intrigue and generated lots of conversation among fans. It was an objectively good narrative that served as a cultural phenomenon (albeit a small one that only took place among a specific subculture). It best compares to L O S T except it wasn't a huge disappointment at the end.

Sandman is a well written allegorical work about the importance of fantasy and narratives, which nicely captures the idea of comics without attempting to be meta like Watchmen or Multiversity. The characters grow and develop and it feels like an epic in the literary sense of the word. Lucifer operates similarly but is [for the most part] a singular contained narrative whereas Sandman goes off on a number of tangents that frequently only very generally relate to the overall story or themes.

By all means, explain to me why any of the works I've listed aren't exceptional or ought not to be considered candidates for the 'pinnacle' of the medium.

holy fuck hive mind. I thought I was the only one who read this.

How about actual issues?
>Anatomy Lesson
>The butler did it/What the butler saw
>Watchmen issue 4
>All-Star Superman "Neverending"

Probably not the very top but it's up there. What I love about Watchmen is that the panels are densely packed with information and mapped out in an unconventional way so you always find something knew when re-reading it. The writing is good and all but Gibbons' art makes a good comic book into a great one. Watchmen might be a bit overrated but anyone who says its not at the very least great is just being a contrarian.

Not that, geez.

it's good but i unrelatedly hate that so many attribute the 3x3 grid to it
its a good system that too many think harps on watchmen to use

Well none of your opinions are valid anymore, you're just a silly person.

>Anatomy Lesson
I'm not usually creeped out by comics but damn.

I'd like Doomsday Clock a lot more if Johns stopped poorly aping the 3x3

It plays with the tropes, but is never trapped by the clichés of the genre. While, Swamp Thing and Miracleman has those big fight scenes, 2d characters and are mostly plot driven.

I don't think you've ever read Swamp Thing

>Criticizes a book
>You've never read the book
Tell me that the first half of Swamp Thing isn't a generic horror comic. Swamp Thing fighting the Flouronic man and Arcane is hardly some kind of high literature.
Compare it to Watchmen which is mostly about the characters.

did you stop after the first arc or something? Swamp Thing's character conflict is central to the book

It's nowhere nearly as character driven as Watchmen and has a large amount of standard horror stories.
You faggots never give any reason for why Miracleman and Swamp Thing are better than Watchmen. You just do so for the sake of being contrarians.

Watchmen would not be as good as it is without the 3x3.

>You just do so for the sake of being contrarians.
That's a hell of an assumption user.

I'm inclined to think that what you refer to is mostly dictated by the writer, Gibbons did a great job no doubt, but compare it with V for Vendetta and you will notice that this is what Moore does.
(which seem obvious enough, it's the writer who populates the page with references and context, the artist does his bidding)

(I still hate that the penciler is referred to as the artist, but the writer is just a writer)

Not all writers write as detailed scripts as Moore does. Plenty of times the writer just gives the bare minimum and the penciller does the heavy lifting.

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Honestly, Ellis shits on Moore so hard it's quite sad that Moore is more popular. Ellis makes him look like Johns.

>Not counting the faces
the key phrase.

As if.

No, Moore really is more popular.

You are an imbecile for calling anything that isn't basic capeshit "pretentious".
52 isn't more than year one or born again, it's not better than supreme, it's not better than doom patrol or animal man.
Capeshit involving waid and johns will never be top capeshit.

The first five have been translated, but the sixth is on hold for like 2 years