I’ve been thinking

Western animation, for the most part, seems to be aimed at one of three groups, young children, children aged 8-13, and adults. Anime, however seems to be more in the area between children 8-13 and adults. Kinda like a T rating on a game. Where is the market for “T-rated” western animation?

If you made a cartoon aimed at teens people will think it’s for kids

A lot of people have been thinking about this for years, but the attitude towards animation in America is what it is and will almost certainly never change.

Actually what I meant to say was that it's not about the demographics but about how the shows are made. Japan doesn't make a distinction between teens and adults, but if you removed all anime that seems "teen" to Americans you'd still be left with things like Psycho-Pass, Sakura Quest and 91 Days. What is adult animation in America? Cartoon sitcoms and very little else.

because there is a big stigma that cartoons are childish and current adults dont care about it.

We need more adults that grew up watching adventure time and regular show to make series, and they will probably come in 20 years.

But then you need to wait for those series to be sucessfull wich is at least 10 years, and THEN we may get mature themed cartoons that arent shit episodic sitcoms.

So to resume it all we need to wait for older adults to fucking die already and for current teens to get a job.
The reason there arent more cartoons for adults is because there arent adults that care about that. Give it 30 years.

In the meantime you can make a mature themed cartoon of your own i guess.

AT and RS are not "mature" shows and are not going to do anything to change the status quo. People have also been seeing anime for a long time now and there hasn't been any shift in thinking.

The reason Anime hasnt changed the wests view on cartoons is because people generally acknowledge that they're from a different culture. Also the fact that a large chunk of anime fans hate american cartoons.

>AT and RS are not "mature"
They were way more mature than fucking cow and chicken.

Not implying they were though, my point is "if we had this in 2010 see how good will things be in 2040".

Also the fact that during the time when Anime was the most huge in the west, most dubs you got were edited to shit to conform with kids network standards.

Easy access to anime has depressed the market for mature American television animation.

It's from a different culture, but it clearly shows that animation can do much more than what it has been doing in America, and it already has resulted in shows like Avatar and Castlevania (which are unlikely to ever change the status quo). Hollywood also sees no problems with repurposing anime/manga for their own movies.

Most "adult" animation is obviously aimed at teens.

My point is that the general public in America aren't going to change their minds about animation until its common for American animation to do mature shows. They don't give a shit if somewhere else in the world does mature shit, because for the most part, its irrelevant to them.

"Mature" shows like Avatar that still have to follow kids network standards aren't going to change things, either. There will always be people that see that its on Nickelodeon, Disney or Cartoon Network and instantly judge the show as kiddy shit just from that alone.

Castlevania is on Netflix, an on-demand streaming service. Which basically means only people that were interested in the first place are going to see it.

Those mature shows would be made by people with a lot of interest in animation, who have had access to anime for decades now. They also wouldn't need to be watched by everyone.

So would an Avatar-esque that aired on Fox, for example, do anything to solve this?

>We need more adults that grew up watching adventure time and regular show to make series

Yeah, I'm sure kids in the '90s who grew up in the anime boom thought the same thing, only with anime shows in place of kids cartoons. The adults who grew up watching DBZ, Ronin Warriors, and Sailor Moon didn't do JACK FUCKING SHIT to change the American animation industry. How the fuck do you think anyone who grew up watching Adventure Time and Regular Show could ever do it?

First you would have to convince Fox to air such a show in primetime. The last time they tried that was with Batman TAS. Go look up how well that went.

Its not about influences. It can be influenced by anime all it wants. Its about where the show itself is from and where it is presented.

A mature american cartoon will have a much bigger effect on the image of animation as a whole if its on a general audiences or adults network (especially if its an easy to access network) than if it was on a kids network or subscription based on-demand service.

Batman TAS was not originally a prime time show.

I'm not sure what your point is anymore.

>A mature american cartoon will have a much bigger effect on the image of animation as a whole if its on a general audiences or adults network (especially if its an easy to access network) than if it was on a kids network or subscription based on-demand service.

Two things. One, no one is going to buy into a subscription service JUST for an animated show that isn't a kids cartoon UNLESS that service has one deep-as-fuck selection of other content to go along with it (see: Crunchyroll, Netflix). Two, no network is going to blow a shitload of money and time on an animated series that will never be taken seriously by the vast majority of the American viewing audience.

People still thought it was good enough to air in primetime. That it bombed in the ratings is proof that American audiences won't give a shit about a "serious" animated series on primetime TV, at least not in our lifetimes.

It bombed in ratings because it was put next to 60 minutes.

Hey, I can't help it if Fox intentionally sabotaged the show by placing it in a deathslot.

Basically any action show. Especially capes.

>One, no one is going to buy into a subscription service JUST for an animated show that isn't a kids cartoon UNLESS that service has one deep-as-fuck selection of other content to go along with it (see: Crunchyroll, Netflix)
So you agree with me?

>no network is going to blow a shitload of money and time on an animated series that will never be taken seriously by the vast majority of the American viewing audience.
This is precisely why the ghetto persists. The only networks that could actually make a difference are the ones that are too afraid to even try.

What is actually for adults? Adults shows are aimed primarily at the 16-25 bracket, which aren't exactly adults and dips much lower.

So what is your point?

>So you agree with me?

No. You can put a show like Castlevania on Netflix, but nobody is going to pay the $10 to get Netflix JUST for Castlevania. It's nice to have it on there, but it isn't a "killer app", so to speak.

>The only networks that could actually make a difference are the ones that are too afraid to even try.

Networks will sometimes take risks, but the people in charge are not so fucking stupid as to sabotage themselves by making an animated primetime series that isn't a Family Guy-style comedy. It would be a financial disaster on top of a ratings bomb, and no network can afford that much of a whirlwind of failure these days. Your dream will only ever be just that. Learn to live with it.

No network will eever air a serious animated series with the intent of making it a success, and that includes Fox.

>You can put a show like Castlevania on Netflix, but nobody is going to pay the $10 to get Netflix JUST for Castlevania. It's nice to have it on there, but it isn't a "killer app", so to speak.
Again, so you agree with me?

Bob's Burgers

What if we produce a bunch of T-rated cartoons and shove them down viewers' throats?

No, and that is for the simple fact that you actually believe a network would ever risk losing viewers and money by the boatload by investing in a serious animated series to air in primetime.

That will never happen. No network would ever stick their necks out like that.

>It would be a financial disaster on top of a ratings bomb
Didn't they say this about Simpsons before it became big?

Even if The Simpsons had failed, it still would have failed at being an animated sitcom. That it succeeded, and that the only primetime network animation to ever succeed has been animated sitcoms, should tell you something: AMERICANS DON'T GIVE A SHIT ABOUT PRIMETIME ANIMATION UNLESS IT IS FORMATTED AS A SITCOM.

Didn't the same happen to Invasion America?

>no
No amount of No's is going to change the fact your comments about streaming services were what I was saying to begin with. But I guess you can continue being a brainlet about that.

>you actually believe a network would ever risk losing viewers and money by the boatload by investing in a serious animated series to air in primetime.
My point was that the only chance for the "cartoons are for kids" stigma to end is if a network made a successful a mature cartoon. Never once said I actually believed it would happen.

>the only chance for the "cartoons are for kids" stigma to end is if a network made a successful a mature cartoon

And that shit is never going to happen so you can stop fucking suggesting it right now, you fucking mongoloid.

What part of
>Never once said I actually believed it would happen.
Don't you understand?

If you don't believe it'll happen, why even fucking suggest it? You know it's a virtual impossibility and yet you keep bringing it up over and over and over like saying it enough times will make it happen THIS ISN'T YOUR FUCKING DREAMS, MIKEY, YOU'RE NOT GONNA MAKE IT HAPPEN BY YELLING IT OVER AND OVER AGAIN, NOW GET BACK IN YOUR FUCKING ROOM AND STAY IN THERE UNTIL I'M THROUGH HITTING YOUR CUNT OF A MOTHER

"Adult" television shows are watched largely by teens.

Apart from Flintstones, what animated sitcoms existed before Simpsons?

Well, for starters, I was replying to someone else.

I DON'T FUCKING CARE, SKIDMARK, GET THE FUCK BACK IN YOUR ROOM AND WRITE ME A 1000-WORD ESSAY ON WHY THAT SHIT WILL NEVER HAPPEN OR I WILL RAPE YOUR DOG IN FRONT OF YOU, AND I PROMISE YOU THAT NONE OF US WILL LIKE THAT, LEAST OF ALL THE CHIHUAHUA

...

What if I was President of the United States and made an executive order forcing networks to produce and air mature cartoons?

You wouldn't be able to do that without either violating the First Amendment or getting a Constitutional Convention together to add an amendment that would make legal your executive order. The government has only a limited amount of control over content aired by broadcast networks, which are largely the networks that still matter, and what you're suggesting does not fall under those limited controls. To do what you're suggesting, a president would either need to break the law or change the law, and you're not gonna get that to happen for a fucking animated primetime show, SO GET YOUR ASS BACK IN YOUR ROOM AND WRITE THAT FUCKING ESSAY OR YOUR DOG GETS MY DICK UP ITS ASS WHILE YOU WATCH

Nigga people is just starting to awake from the stupid japan vs america thing.
>DBZ
So no actual anime fans?

Weren't the MTV cartoons basically for teens? Isn't that practically the channel's target audience?