Holy shit this show got awful extremely fast

Holy shit this show got awful extremely fast

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it was allways awful OP. But yes, it has gotten worse.

yes, after the first mintue of the first episode

Seasons 1+2 were tight af but S3 has shit the bed on storytelling with Slice of Crap flailing at trying to maintain momentum. Eclipse is an anemic Palpatine expy, the monster rights thing is shoddy and Marco went from hero to chump in literally one episode. The most engaging characters (Jackie, Toffee, Glossaryck and Ludo in no particular order) all got sidelined or killed off and it feels like the series should have wrapped with S2 despite the hanging plotlines.
There have been enjoyable moments but overall it's more like S1 with annoying things being shoved in our faces than S2.

Yeah, season 2 already dipped from season 1 but season 3 has just been a mess of relationship drama and "muh deepest lore"

Lore can be good but the stories are melodrama where the plot drives the characters into OOC as often as not.

ITT: autists getting triggered by childrens' cartoons.

(You)

Lore in cartoons has never been good. They are only false promises of depth to a series with no depth at all, and inspire countless hours of autism among the fans.

>in this thread
You mean in this board right?

The writing on Star's personality can be inconsistent at times, sure she is young and makes mistakes and can be quite dumb but why is she just regular dumb in some episodes and "talk to myself and pretend I'm in adventure time season 5" awful in others? Fucking Nefcy get your shit together for 3B

>what is gravity Gravity falls
Also there is no reason why some cartoons could have lore, there is lore on movies,comics, books,games,animes,webcomics and pretty much every single form of story

There is no reason why only cartoons shouldn't have lore.

Gravity Falls, Steven Universe, and Star Vs.

Rank Them

Exact moment it turned to shit = Toffee died

Adventure time first season > Gravity falls >Star vs season 1>>>>>>> Shipping time >>>> Star vs shipping

Goodness gracious, Season 3 was such a disappointment.
You'd expect they'd do better after how amazing Season 2 was and how they started delving into Queen Moon's past, but no, they drop the ball to stretch the status quo's stay as much as they could in an effort to have a fourth season.

>Toffee was canned in record time to make way for Eclipsa, yet they don't even bother to explore her and intentionally kept her as a mystery.
>Intigrating Tom as a main character for the sole purpose of starting a love drama wih Star, even after it was established they weren't good for each other.
>Essentially ripping apart a beloved ship like Markapoo to make way for something as bland as Kelly x Marco for no good reason, besides causing more love drama bullshit.
>Ludo becoming non-existent despite being such a fan-favorite character in Season 2
>Ending a villain that was hyped for a season and a half with a bullshit deus ex machina

You know what also annoys me about this? How the writers are using Star, a privileged monarchist princess of all things, as their liberal mouthpiece of racial/speciesial "equality" between Mewmen and monsters. They've also dumbed down Star's parents and the Mewmen soldiers into strawmen just so she could be condescending with them and hammer the point even further.

I mean seriously, a fucking princess advocating for "equality" while there are peasants on the streets. Want true equality? Guillotine every single royalty, burn their high castles to the ground, and establish a democratic classless republic on top of the ashes.

THAT is how you achieve equality, retarded-ass writers.

>only know this show based on Sup Forums threads
>apparently it went from the deepest thing ever with all those threads about Christian mythology or whatever from a couple months back and Starco plus Marco marrying that fire girl to being completely awful now

what changed?

It's always in season 3 that quality takes a sharp nosedive. I'm making a point of not watching more than two seasons of anything from now on.

I explained above. They went from focusing on an overarching story and character development based on mythologies and lore to bullshit cookie-cutter episodes.
Hell, the finale wasn't even a proper finale. It was a fucking Christmas special that can be summarized into "santa is tots real, dumdums.".

They replaced lore for shipping and butchered the character development of Marco the sidekick crush.

2 love triangles plus 3 heavily implied crushes

The problem with board driven animated shows that try to tell continuous stories has to do the fact that at least four separate teams of boarders are working on episodes simultaneously, which is why it always feels like when something important happens, it takes another 3-4 episodes for another important thing to happen.

Yeah, episode 1b! I've never seen any character singlehandedly (well...) torpedo general interest in a show as effectively as Pony Head did.

It took until the show started a game of hacky-sack with Star's heart that people wanted to join in for people to start paying attention again.

That sounds stupid, especially considering the existence of shows that somehow managed to retain their quality during Season 3 and beyond, but I suppose it's understandable given recent trends.

> It became popular!
> Let's pretend that it is awful.
Never expected this kind of Reddit move from Sup Forums.

The Gravity Falls crew lacked fortitude; the Steven Universe crew lacks discipline; the Star Vs crew seems to lack vision.

The latter two are still ongoing. "It ain't over 'til it's over" is all I'll say about ranking for now.

(But 22-minute episodes are almost always greater than the sum of two 11-minute episodes. As a rule.)

Star vs > Manlet Falls > Steven Garbage
S3 of Star has been average at best but its nowhere near as bad as people in this thread are making it out to be.

This should not be this hard. Just plan the shit out and don't stop. These lulls of filler and general no direction I can only see stem from laziness. It's not even good filler, it's just wasted animation budget. Know at least your first 3 seasons when starting out.

Nah, it was always bad, then it looked like it might get better, but it actually continued being bad. So it feels like it got worse, but it didn't. It's just shit and underage waifus/husbandos/both(?) are the only reason it has generals.

Hey! Hekapoo is NOT underage!

>what is Sup Forums and every current game that comes out

I wanna be like the protagonist in the Henshin game and turn myself into Star's pantyhose.

Jackie was an engaging character? When did that happen?

Could you give me a quick rundown on how so?

They all kind of suck now

This. Its not bad. Its just that it completely set aside its most interesting plot threads for the ENTIRE SEASON. A poor choice no matter how you look at it given that it leaves us with Mewni slice of life stuff that deliberately tries not to drive forward much plot or character development.

The story of season 3 is that there is no story. The crew seemed to expected to only get 3 seasons to work with and suddenly being guaranteed a 4th means all that plot development and character arc has to be put on standby until season 4 because they already wrote most of it out. Season 3 of Star Vs is Dragon Age 2: a holding pattern so that the writers dont have to change anything TOO much in their already written Dragon Age 3

Star vs was never considered good, and is not popular all it got is a single circlejerk thread from times to times that is most of the time waifu shit.

people discussing cartoons on the cartoon board.
many aspergerererers's.

Is it true that Marco is now Star's "bitchboy"? Because I've seen that a lot here

He got obsessed with her out of nowhere and then realized that he's in love with her out of nowhere AND decided to be her servant out of nowhere because he "wanted the title of knight" out of nowhere.

They didn't know that they struck gold with Toffee, without him the show lost all tension and intrigue

Copypasting from other thread.

Thoughts on Season 3a:

> It feels like season 3 has been like a D&D campaign story, where the DM thinks they have a plan, but really they're improvising constantly, introducing mysteries and plot points that they don't have a plan, or the time to resolve. It's also like how JJ Abrams, or that guy who did the Sherlock, directs: introducing mysteries and plot points that they have no actual plans to resolve but sound cool and build tension.

> Even if they do have a plan to resolve everything, I think the story has been pulled in too many directions. They've had to do episodes to resolve stuff from Season 2 (rip jarco), Eclipsa, Star's transforming, monster racism, relationships, and random bullshit like Ponymonium. They need to stick with one or two big things, and give them the screen time they deserved.

> I actually like the relationship bullshit. Star getting with Marco right away would be weird, they had some issues to deal with. And Marco being thirsty for a rebound after Star is pretty funny to watch.

> Fucking RIP Jarco.

>Remove best girl and swap in a character to take her place that's inferior in design, personality and overall general quality

RIP Jackie, new girl is so shit I don't even remember her name

I really did not like Marco's treatment this season by the writers, little recapitulation:
>Marco leaves Mewni for a few episodes, immediately comes back, and Star and the show act like he's been away years. Why not just have him on Earth from the beginning of the season to make that even semi-believable, instead of him having been with Star a few weeks offscreen?
>on that note, the timeline is completely fucked. Months can pass between episodes, but you won't know that until the characters awkwardly point that out
>Marco at first is treated like he might become a legitimate squire. Instead he gives that up because that might be actually interesting, and becomes Star's squire (bitchboy). This is the worst thing
>As Star says, princesses don't have squires. This is a pity job. This is only acknowledged in one episode and then immediately brushed off, despite Marco seeming like he might have been capable as an actual squire.
>Despite this position being meant to put them on even territory once again, Star still refers to Marco as "squire" and orders him to do things he's not comfortable with. Marco follows these orders like a bitchboy, occasionally adding "m'lady." Their relationship is now literal master-servant shit in comparison to the relative equality of S1/2

and the list go on
>lost his first girlfriend
>friends can no longer tolerate him
>lost his powers and hekapoo
>an empty knight promise
>it is no longer a princess
>new love has a boyfriend
>nobody respects him
>constantly being despised by the rest for no particular reason
>despite having saved the life of star countless times, everyone simply takes it for granted

all out of nowhere?

Let's hope Janna can safe the show.
I loved her appearance in this stomp episode and when star was in this other dimension and Janna had to watch her.
youtube.com/watch?v=E18IyqKkiNI

but that's not all, a lot of the fandom have followed the current and despise Marco now especially Tumblr just look
> Marco now absolutely wants to be a squire
> She makes Marco her squire despite princesses not having any because otherwise she would have to put in some current effort to become a knight
> She now uses this to her advantage because she's a teenager and that's the only way she can get Marco to hang out with her anymore
> Somehow she's the bitch

Seems like kind of a drastic change from the first two seasons

Are you quoting somebody in particular?

I do not remember well

Is it somebody from tumblr?

YEES , THERE'S MORE HERE:
>I have to say, I’m surprised they called Marco out on being a lowkey control freak. I mean, it’s something I did touch on in my discourse re: Tom, but I guess I’m not used to stuff like that actually being addressed in-series. Usually fandom discourse is “I interpret this character completely different from canon because of a tiny detail and this will be the hill I die upon”. Because, like, yeah, Marco does have a bit of a recurring issue with not respecting people’s autonomy and putting his wishes before everyone else. But because he’s a protagonist, we’re trained by media to not think it’s a big deal…assuming we do notice it at all. But instead, Marco is acting this way and he’s both visibly alienating those around him and being faced with ramifications for it more and more frequently.
>He doesn’t trust Star to go on a date with her ex and subsequently crashes the dance to steal her away. Star begins to get mad, but lets it go.
>He doesn’t think Star can handle going to the store to buy an As Seen On TV ice cream maker. She slaps his ice cream out of his hand when he admits it.

>He becomes so indignant over not being made the star of his children’s karate class that he stalks and blackmails a small child. Star calls him a creep and Sensei gives him a talking-to about honor.
>After the Battle for Mewni, he makes every social interaction about stroking his ego and he refuses to readjust to a normal plebian life. His friends get sick of it and stop hanging out with him.
>He refuses to humble himself (see above) for Jackie, pretends to do it, and lies to her about it. She breaks up with him.
>He moves to Mewni uninvited, expecting to be made a knight. Everyone has to scramble to accommodate him and the other squires immediately hate him for being handed the job as a privilege.
>He strings Hekapoo along pretending to not know the portals they’re chasing are Star’s doing. She becomes infuriated and nearly turns him in to the High Commission.
>He throws Star a surprise birthday party, disregarding that she’s far more concerned with the holiday it falls on and never celebrates on the actual day, and accuses Tom of being a bad boyfriend for not enthusiastically going along with his plan. Star is put through horrible distress, he and Tom get into a physical fight, and everyone nearly gets killed by a stump monster because Stump Day wasn’t being respected.
In any other show, any implication that Marco might have a bit of a condescending streak would either go unaddressed and left to fester in the dregs of message board arguments (or I guess Reddit and Sup Forums would be the closest modern equivalent), or it would be brought up exactly once where Marco learns a Very Valuable Lesson and that’s the end of it forever. But here, it’s an ongoing thing and it’s steadily becoming more and more obvious where you don’t even need to be analyzing episodes and looking at the antagonist’s point of view to get the impression. The pot is beginning to boil over.

Holy shit tumblr users type in such an obnoxious way

Is that non-greentexted part also from tumblr, or is it something you're saying?

As Gravity Falls shows, lore can actually work... but it has to be actually central to the story. Any show that tries to tease lore by giving it cameo appearances now and again is just setting up for nothing.

Buuut cartoons absolutely love doing that, because LOST showed that you can bait people along for ages by pretending to have lore.

NOT ALL IS OF TUMBLR, MY ERROR TO MARK ALL

"uggh how dare the main character start on the path of learning from the mistakes of her previous generation."

She literally started this shit this season dumbass, she ain't gonna know all the ins and outs of equality on day 1 dipshit.

So is Gravity Falls an example of lore that works or lore that doesn't?

Alright, makes sense.

>what is gravity Gravity falls
An overrated show dominated by incest shippers, with a disappointing finale.

You literally can't advocate for equality if you're multiple classes above people, ignorant retard.
She's not doing this genuinely as a character, she's doing this because the writers want to express their views through her in the most liberal way possible. It is meant to sound progressive, but it really is not.

let's be honest Star does not deserve Marco, well this season:
>what about the amount of support that Marco gave her? even when he was with Jackie? what about that moment of Just Friends when Marco asked if she was alright when she saw them kissing and immediately he went to apologize her? what about everything that they did together before season 3?
>What happened to the line ''i rather seen Marco once in a month rather than never''
>i didn't wanted Star to be his girlfriend in that instant, i just wanted to see Star supporting Marco.

>I don't find Star the bitch, she was scared of Marco for various reasons, i find the writers the bitch for destroying this beautiful relationship.

>What the fuck happened with this wholesome relationship between Star & Marco.
>There was literally one hug in this bomb.
>Marco is literally Star little dog, the favors that he does for her doesn't feel like he does because he support her, but instead feel like his obligation.
>We didn't even seen their friendship Thursday.
>Why Marco didn't use the scissors to visit Star at least once in a week? what happened of him being so sad in BfM because she was gone?
>Marco is so fucking retarded that he just accept his current position instead of trying to improve.

the magic of Starco is gone for me.

>Essentially ripping apart a beloved ship like Markapoo
You'd have to be a special kind of stupid to think that ship was ever even a possibility.

Did you even bother reading the rest of my post, dumbass? They ruined a ship for a store brand ship nobody expected or wanted, it felt like something taken out of a fanfiction website.

>It's always in season 3 that quality takes a sharp nosedive.
You're not too wrong, and there's a reason why: it's because a lot of the creative staff give up after Season 2. Specifically, they start S1 hoping to make the best show ever, when the show becomes popular they get motivated to try even harder, but by the end of that they realise that it's NOT going to be the best show ever and either jump ship to try again or just accept it (and lose passion without noticing it).

Do note that regular ol' comedies (like Gumball or TTG) don't normally have this problem, as the creative staff are just there to tell jokes, and are under no pretenses that they might change the world beyond making people laugh.

I want to FUCK Janna

I think that OTGW made a good lore. But I understand if you don't like lore in general when it comes to cartoons, it can be really disappointing.

Star and Marco seem really out of character this season.

I never liked the "muh there is something in the wall" thing of Gravity Falls. There are many details but it never seems to be important for the plot.

She is not for lewd

I seriously don't understand the Jackie removal. Not the idea itself - it's obviously so Marco is open to teen drama again - but it was so poorly done that I can't believe the writers didn't think of something better.

Like, who writes a script that says "Okay, now the character we've been setting up this whole time as having a cool and interesting and drama-free personality just goes 'go away Marco' and leaves".

The Simpsons went from semi success to pop culture gold from S3 and onward. Same with South Park and Beavis and Butt-head. It is not all cut and dry.

>because LOST showed that you can bait people along for ages by pretending to have lore.

It sounds a little like Gravity Falls and its "illuminati" character.

>the "muh there is something in the wall" thing of Gravity Falls.

What thing are you referring to?

Are you saying there's no such thing as a good long-term tv drama, then?

>I can't believe the writers didn't think
That was your first mistake. Cartoon writers have a limited capacity for thinking.

Steven Universe > Gravity Falls > Average teenage drama > Star Vs

I know that Steven Universe is trash right now but being honest this was much more interesting that Gravity Falls and the characters were more unique than Gravity Falls character (don't try to defend it, we all know that Mcgucket is basically a copy of the Ice King) and it worked with more mature ideas, no I'm not talking about LGBT shit or Fusion shit.

Keep in mind that Tumblr is frequented by teenagers - actual ones, not "Pretend everyone's under 18" like on Sup Forums/Reddit - so they haven't learned their lesson about keeping speech simple and concise. Instead, there's a bit more flowery prose than there should be.

What a good post.

>You literally can't advocate for equality if you're multiple classes above people, ignorant retard.
What kind of Tumblr crap is that? Is this some kind of "Don't punch down" but completely messed up? There's no reason why a princess couldn't say they should treat monster peasants like human peasants!

But why couldn't they just have done whatever they had already planned for the "final" season in S3, and then have S4 be like a sequel?

Is there any show nowadays that DOESN'T have a male character suddenly become obsessed with a female character out of nowhere?

It seems not even The Simpsons is immune to this (at a certain point, Nelson magically started crushing on Lisa and turned into Milhouse 2.0).

Marco was already obsessed with Star. Quit acting like that's something new. And it was fucking obvious in season 2 that he was in love with her, he was just too dumb to realize it. That's why he barely ever spent any time with Jackie, and never formed any sort of connection with her when he did.

I'm gonna clarify here: the SECOND season of Gravity Falls was lore done right. Specifically, because the entire main plot was based on it, and any secret stuff was basically just a miniature spoiler for what was coming up next rather than intended to lead people on. The hidden code stuff was... well, I guess it worked out, but I wouldn't have had my hopes up that it'd turn into something if I was around during Season 1.

>You literally can't advocate for equality if you're multiple classes above people, ignorant retard.
Well, you can, but it involves making sacrifices and letting go of your privileged status (actual privilege, not the Tumblr version).

Star doesn't need any excuse to hang out with any of her other friends. Sure with Ponyhead you can say it's because they're both princesses, but Kelly is seemingly some random commoner, and there's no issue with Star bringing Janna to hang out whenever she feels like it. So the idea that she needed to give Marco a title in order for him to be allowed to hang out with her is dubious. (Besides, based on Song Day most of Mewni thinks that Marco is a prince anyway.)

>Is there any show nowadays that DOESN'T have a male character suddenly become obsessed with a female character out of nowhere?
No, because that's often how it works in real life.

I would say it's the opposite: that Jackie breaking up with Marco should've happened much sooner that it did. As in, the same day he came back from Mewni. It should've been fucking obvious to her that he loves Star, so pretending nothing had happened for months is not so much Jackie being "chill" as it is her being an idiot.

Complete lack of Ludo past the first 7 eps makes this season the worst by default.

Duh, obviously, but do you actually think the writers of a Disney show will do anything as daring and interesting as that by the end of the show?
I'm sure it'll all end with her being happily perched on a throne in the final episode while monster and mewmen peasants are gleefully singing about how "equality" is finally achieved, and it's all thanks to Princess Star or whatever.

Hmm, a friend of the opposite sex who he's grown incredibly close to and is also quite pretty. Nope, can't understand at all why Marco would fall in love with her.

Seriously, the most unusual thing about it is that it took Marco so long for this to happen.

Why did she say that?

...

I think that Janna has a secret crush on Marco.
She is just to shy to reveal it to him. So she shits on others who can show their feelings openly

And the last line of the final episode will be a quip followed by everyone laughing

But is that what you want?

Because Janna's a troll.

There is always something in the background, details, numbers, bills, but these things aren't important at all. It's dumb but the fandom make a big deal of them.

Well the second season is fairly better than S1, in fact S1 is a very common show with many stereotypes and an annoying villain, it's funny but this season was just an average kids show. But codes and all that shit, it's internet bait.