Are plot twist villains still a good idea, or have they become too predictable lately?

Are plot twist villains still a good idea, or have they become too predictable lately?

Yes, too predictable. WW for example should not have had Ares still alive

The only time the bait and switch tactic was ever successful was Sentinel Prime in Transformers: Dark of the Moon yeah it sucks Shockwave as a jobber but Sentinel Prime is majestic as fuck.

>too predictable
That's the problem that's hard to fix. It's hard to balance in your face information about the twist to make it believable and subtlety where you probably will fail and make it an asspull.

I wouldn't say it's predictable but it's not as enjoyable as classic Disney villains.

I liked that they pulled a twist with an already established villain.

I'll honestly be fucking surprised if Yessss is NOT the villain In WIR 2.

They're fun as fuck when they can be done correctly and can still hold up on their own merits without relying too heavily on a narrative gimmick. But at the same time, they are indeed overused lately and the trope isn't even being used in any interesting new interpretations. It's always the "real villains look like everyone else" meme with Disney/Pixar, or at best "the impractically cool villain is a false flag for a more grounded antagonist", like in the case of the infamous Mandarin twist.

I remember reading The Strange Case of Dr. Jekyll & Mr. Hyde as a lad, when I was young enough to not even have any secondhand awareness to the common-knowledge twist, and it blew my fucking mind. It really put the whole book under a completely different light when I immediately re-read it, and it was just such an utterly satisfying conclusion to the mystery being followed by Utterson's narrative. IMO, that's the kind of punch that this kind of twist should shoot for, ideally. Surprising the audience to the mere fact that some background character is the bad guy (or that the obvious bad guy ISN'T THE VILLAIN) is lame as fuck by contrast.

King Candy in Wreck-It Ralph was the most succesful.

The foreshadowing and build up is great, but Candy seems like genuine despite his eccentricness that he gets away with his manipulations and lies. Him being Turbo was a twist that worked perfectly.

I prefer Kid Icarus, where the person we thought was the main villain turns out to be the servant for the REAL final boss.

How about a plot twist hero?

Sentinal Prime has a toy with a scratched out Autobot symbol released months before the movie premiered.

They're only predicable right now because movies keep using them over and over. Space it out, guys!

In most media, that feels like a cop out due to time constraints. It works amazingly for Kid Icarus because only like the first 4th of the game deals with Medusa, while the other 3/4 is spent with that fucking amazing troll Hades. And a bit of time with best girl Viridi.

Candy is weird, because in retrospect it seems absurd that I DIDN'T see it coming. Like, it was so fucking obvious, and yet it still shocked me.

That is how you pull off a twist. We all suspected King Candy was up to no good, we just didn't realize how fucked up he truly was until the climax.

I feel like Disney specifically needs to knock this off for a awhile. Have there been any films from Disney Animation since tangled that didn’t have a plot twist villain?

Not Sup Forums, but Braid has it both

^ It's Sup Forums

Would they dare make a movie where the villain is really the MC?

Winnie the Pooh

I think the problem is less the idea of it, and more that too much stuff just do it for the sake of it, which results in very sloppy execution.

It's not that they've become too predictable but it's that modern twist villains have taken the fun out of villainy.

You go back to early Disney and you watch Captain Hook ranting and raving about Pan for the first time, or Maleficent's cackling grandstanding or any number of main villains. It's impressive and entertaining.

Now think of a modern twist villain like Hans or Bellweather. The instant they turned out to be villains, the tone of the movie sunk until their defeat. Sure it's more realistic, but who the hell watches a Disney movie for realism?