What makes Marvel heroes "relatable"? Honest question

What makes Marvel heroes "relatable"? Honest question.

Originally, Marvel was considered revolutionary for focusing on the civilian lives of heroes and their struggles outside of baddie punching.

Now ever since Millar's Ultimates and Bendis with Disassembled, "relatable" means being an asshole and getting in physical altercations with your equally asshole coworkers and bosses. Basically every Marvel hero has been replaced with Stone Cold Steve Austin, CM Punk, and Vincent McMahon.

They're from MY favorite corporation.

>What makes Marvel heroes "relatable"? Honest question.
Because I would also blow up a planet with my caucasian acquaintances

That meme comes from the observation DC characters tend to be more idealized / perfect while Marvel characters have more flaws / problems.

I've heard the phrase "Marvel is men trying to be gods, DC is gods trying to be men" in relation to that.

Why are DC characters more idealized? Just because they aren't drunkards that try to kill each other every month they aren't "relatable"?

I think the life of a DC character is more "common" than the life of the average Marvel character. For starters, DC characters have jobs, for example.

Why do you keep making these threads? Honest question.

>I've heard the phrase "Marvel is men trying to be gods, DC is gods trying to be men" in relation to that.
This is a phrase that screams "I'm a casual".

That phrase is usually uttered by people who have never actually read comics from either.

>Marvel has actual gods (Thor, Herc, Perun, etc.) as random team members
>DC basically relegates gods to plot devices
hmn really makes you think

They're assholes and they solve all their problems by making even bigger problems.

>Why are DC characters more idealized? Just because they aren't drunkards that try to kill each other every month they aren't "relatable"?
It is because they are made by different gods.

Marvel embraces the fact that the comics were created by real life men. That their world is shit because their god is shit. The One Above All is just Marvel the Company, who is not very nice to the characters.

DC, however, insist that the Abraham God is in charge, that everything happens for a good reason and that The Presence is absolutely good and can do no wrong. This required that the heroes be made as ideal as possible, as any flaw on their part makes Jesus look bad.

>Originally, Marvel was considered revolutionary for focusing on the civilian lives of heroes and their struggles outside of baddie punching.
They were also set "in the world outside your window" rather than in places like Gotham or Metropolis.

And because they were starting a whole universe from scratch they could have people react to The Fantastic Four as a completely novel experience ( where DC at that point was already up to their eyeballs in continuity and lore ).

But that was then, and this is now. These days the MCU NYC is lousy with spandex and capes to the point of literally having an alien city parked in the Hudson River full of Inhumans and a fucking prep school full of Mutants in Central Park ( and Las Vegas might still be a literal Hell on Earth I haven't been keeping up ) and their continuity issues will make you crosseyed.

>>DC basically relegates gods to plot devices
I see someone's never read Wonder Woman nor Hellblazer.

because they are in the real world
they are all in NY, San fran and other places
Real people show up in their comics

Its a living breathing thing with marvel

>DC, however, insist that the Abraham God is in charge, that everything happens for a good reason and that The Presence is absolutely good and can do no wrong. This required that the heroes be made as ideal as possible, as any flaw on their part makes Jesus look bad.
Are you serious? "The Presence" cares so much that it was substituted by a fucking child.

>Marvel characters are relatable because they live in New York
Amazing. Are you aware that New York also exists in the DC universe? It was where the Titans used to operate and everything.

DC and Marvel heroes are reflections of the citizens within their respective universes.

Marvel's citizens are complete tossers who wouldn't think twice about giving a hero the time if they asked.
DC's citizens throw themselves at puddles in the street if it means a hero doesn't need to get their boots wet.

I'm talking about relatability.

Why is Batman mot-relatable, but Black Panther is? Why is Superman (someone who has a job and lived a pretty normal life in Kansas) "not-relatable", but Thor (jobless immortal playboy) is?

It's from their most popular characters. You have the Trinity of an alien god, a Greek god, and Batgod. Meanwhile Marvel's biggest hits for a long time were Spider-Man and Wolverine. Having Injustice being called "Gods Among Us" means they clearly know the popular distinction too, and try and use it.

Oh, that's easy.
People these days are scrubs who don't understand the characters as concepts, only as figures. Batman and Superman are more powerful as concepts than as people; Black Panther and Thor are figures that people would aspire to be (ruler of black people, Nordic god, etc.).

Plus, they only saw the movies.

But what differentiates them? Why is Batman a concept and Black Panther a figure? Black Panther is literally "Batman but better at everything", why the King of a Utopia is more "relatable" than a rich guy from a crappy city?

Alan Moore once joked that DC heroes were one-dimensional, while Marvel's were two dimensional. Jokes aside, most Silver Age DC heroes acted like flawed losers and cowards to keep their identities safe, or as an ironic joke ("Barry Allen you are the slowest man on Earth"), while Marvel's heroes really were flawed, losers or fairly unpleasant people (Just look at Peter Parker in early Lee-Ditko issues).

It wasn't perfectly handled (Some early Thor/Iron Man/Ant-Man stories could easily be DC stories), and most of the focus on the heroes' civilian lives was handled little better than DC did, but the intent was there. The Hulk was just a pissed off monster trying to stay alive who almost never did good deeds intentionally, Peter Parker was a nerdy loser who alienated everyone around him both unintentionally and through his own actions, Namor and Mar-Vell (Well, originally) were villain protagonists who were only heroes to their own people, villains like Hawkeye, Doom, Black Widow, Silver Surfer, Quicksilver and Scarlet Witch got sympathetic moments or reformed eventually.

Look at how DC brought back the Golden Age Flash in that Flash of Two Worlds story. Jay Garrick and Barry Allen meet and immediately become best buddies unquestioningly despite all the existential horror they should feel. Now look at how Marvel brought back Namor (He was a villain for most of the sixties), Captain America (Constantly whining about being a man from a different time) and the original Human Torch (Also brought back as a villain).

This is isn't to say DC was bad though (The Hawks were a better written couple than any of Marvel's couples), and when they tried to imitate Marvel, they were often better (Doom Patrol was way better than X-Men, Metal Men was funnier than FF and Enemy Ace was far more "mature" than anything Marvel EVER did back then). You can't say that Marvel wasn't trying though.

>inb4TL;DR

>Why is Batman a concept and Black Panther a figure?
Because that's what they are in-universe. Black Panther is a title. Batman is boogeyman created by a well-meaning deranged man.

>Black Panther is literally "Batman but better at everything"

Except they literally aren't. The only thing they have in common is being rich as fuk

The whole "normal life in Kansas where he was taught to be human" aspect wasn't really focused on for most Superman stories until the Donner movie, with the exception of a 1948 story that was retconned to involve a different Superman. It used to be canon for years (up until Crisis) that he had been a world-famous superhero (Superboy) since he was a baby and met most of his rogues and the LOSH in high school. It didn't fully become canon until Byrne's miniseries in 1986.

If Black Panther is a title, then he fits much better as a "concept".

>Except they literally aren't.
He is. Black Panther is smarter, stronger, richer, fights better and is more loved than Batman in-universe. He is literally "Batman but better". How is Batman less relatable than an "up to eleven" version of himself?

>Captain America (Constantly whining about being a man from a different time)
The worst part is that since Marvel was adhering to real-world chronology back then Cap had only been frozen for 19 years. A massive culture shock for sure, but not that great a difference; he even had the same love interest he did back in WW2.

>The One Above All is just Marvel the Company
Bullshit, one above all is a character just like the Presence

You say "Black Panther" to a man in the streets and he'll either look at you like he's seen a dumbass, ask if you think he was a member, or look around for a big ol' cat.

You say "Batman" to a man in the streets and he'll look like he's seen a ghost.

Your comment makes no sense, you can aspire to be rich and a hero like batman but not a king choosen by a goddess

Batman is far more relatable than Panther

All the answers here are bullshit.

"Marvel heroes are more relatable because the One above All is worse than the Presence".

"Marvel heroes are more relatable because they live in New York"

"Marvel heroes are more relatable because back in the day they rarely did good deeds intentionally".

How does any of that make one more relatable? Why is an unpleasant individual more relatable than a nice person?

Isn't this what Morrison wrote in Animal Man? That comic book readers apparently can't differentiate between "violent" and "realistic"? Is the same with "unpleasant" and "relatable"?

>Bullshit, one above all is a character just like the Presence
You don't seems to notice the point this very comic page you linked is about. TOAO has no morals, it is a company that makes entertainment. And that is why it values "The Unique". That is why Thanos lives such a great life. Uniques sell.

People associate being an asshole with “realism”.

It's funny, most of the DC personnel is smart enough to keep their heavy hitters fairly spread out, so that incase something happens to one, theirs at least a replacement. In the Marvel Universe, all it would take is for one enemy alien race to come in and say, "They're all in one spot?Seriously!?" and blast the entire state of New York out of existence. Hell even the X-School is in Central Park, why not have all the students wear uniforms that say "Shoot Me"

No, nowhere it implies toaa is the company, the character is right there on panel, is a character that already appeared more than once in comics.

This "TOAA is a company/writter/fans" is nothing more than a debunked fan theory.

They aren't anymore?

>No, nowhere it implies toaa is the company, the character is right there on panel, is a character that already appeared more than once in comics.
I guess you are ignoring the time when the F4 went him, and he took the form of Jack Kirby?

>DC characters have jobs, for example.
and theres dozens of Marvel characters with jobs?

most people are assholes
so its pretty realistic

they're dicks

Because DC heroes are overpowered as fuck.

>The Hawks were a better written couple than any of Marvel's couples
This. 1950s Hawkman and Hawkgirl were kind of revolutionary; both were cops and he wasn't superior in hierarchy to her.

Why are people this retarded

>Peter Parker was a nerdy loser

sure it's fan art but that's one hell of jump between that peter and peter parker, sex god.

Take their Batman counterpart, Stark. He is:

>depressed
>alcoholic
>self-hating
>narcissistic
>cannot form relationships due to fear of rejection
>addicted to women to the point where he was homeless and still fucking crackwhores
>control-freak
>obsessive to the point where he will betray his friends and honor
>insecure about his manhood to the point where he needed to get drunk to talk to girls
>only shares the absolutely last-tier of his technology
And that's just the tip of the iceberg. In a way he is more realistic than Batman, who's a master of every practice, trade and field on Earth, is super-hung, intimidates everyone, can go toe-to-toe with Gods, etc, etc. You can just say he is a shitty human being and a villain, sure, but he has everyday flaws that you will spot in any super-rich, super-intelligent guy.

Kek.

Or Cassandra Cain and Laura Kinney. Both were trained as child soldier, but one is a cool confident loner and the other is a broken mess with anxiety attacks.

They've all fucked your mom.

The fact that most of them are legit characters and not cardboard characters like Supes and WW.

>sex god
Peter isn't a sex god. He may have been a nerd but wasn't a unkempt shut-in with problems socializing.

They're not walking dues ex machina as much as DC hero's

Even then he basically had 2 damn girlfriends.

...

Yes, but Gotham, Metropolis, Central, Coast, and Keystone don't.

Over in Marvel-land, it's stuff like the Savage Land, the blue side of the Moon, Wakanda or Latveria that don't exist.

Didn’t that happen in secret wars?

People then to forget that DC wasn't made with a shared universe in mind and that every hero had their own city to protect.

Still doesn't make him not relatable

look at that lazy eye go

two more than all of us combined

Speak for yourself.

Nah man, like most of Sup Forums, I have an 8"x7" dick, 7% body fat, a 9/10 face, make 1M/year, have fucked ~200 9/10 bitches, am 6'3", and have my own Tech Company. Maybe you in particular are just a failure, just saying...

>8" x 7"
Is it effectively square?

Nah bro, it's like curved and shit brah. Last girl I fucked said it was too small though, so I dread to think what dicklets with 5"x5" dicks are like. I'd just an hero. Remove my shitty genes from the gene pool. Stop FUCKING EMBARASSING THE FUCKING HUMAN RACE!

ah yeah! My fellow curve-user. Girls love that shit. Mine curves all the way back upon it so my tip touches the top. Women say it really rubs their G-spot when we're doing anal

Sigh... I can't LARP anymore user, it makes me feel even worse. I'm barely 5.5"x5.5" dick wise. It is upwards curved though. At a 60 degree angle or so. Dunno how it feels, I'm a virgin...

>Still doesn't make him not relatable
Because it's completely ignored.
If his parents were brought up as much as Uncle Ben is you bet it would.

Marvel heroes have issues. DC heroes have Villians.

Nearly every popular Marvel hero has their issues. Substance abuse. Tramua. Out of time. Etc

DC heroes have Villians, because the heroes are boring. The Villians are a lense to look at the hero that adds excitement and storytelling.

Aka. Marvel heroes are internally intresting. While DC Heroes are externally intresting.

Take the MCU for example. Every best moment is a hero moment, largely without the bad guy. Iron Man movies are Tony Stark being Tony Stark. Captain America training scene. Avengers is the interactions between the heroes. Age of Ultron party scene alone was worth seeing the movie for. The villains barely matter.

The DCEU tries to do the same thing. Except the hero isn't interesting AND they have Marvel style baddies. Nolan Batman wasn't interesting either, but the villians were the focus and were much larger parts.

That is the issue. And they seem to know it. Look how little Superman speaks in BvS.

Anyway note this is a general trend, and the best heroes are ones who have both internal and external issues. Just Marvel seems to hit internal first, while DC does external.

Holy casualfag Batman!

Their good intentions but flawed nature. I always related most to Spider-Man, the Thing, and Daredevil, because of how well intentioned they are, and how willing they are to help others, yet they not only don't always know the answers, but are usually either out of their league or villainized. A hero is best as a good person trying to do they best they can, even when they are overwhelmed.

Like said, Marvel completely forgot that "flawed" doesn't mean to be a complete asshole that happens to do good deeds sometimes. Like how Tony went from a guy trying to do right that succumbs to the stress of his title and duties, to a narcissistic douche whose arch enemy is Captain America.

>muh live action
Oh hi Ladderbro.

>If his parents were brought up as much as Uncle Ben is you bet it would.
Maybe if his parents actually raised him instead of his Aunt May and Uncle Ben, you would have a point.