Paganism

What's the appeal behind paganism? How is it better than the abrahamic religions (Christianity,Judaism,Islam) and the Eastern faiths? It just seems like most of it is based on self improvement and it feels really hollow, but according to pic-related, all of those religions are against white identity, so are white people not supposed to have a real religion?

well, most religions apart from some parts of Christianity. (he hasn't really clarified on this but probably the more roman-eque ones).

HAIL THE TITAN PROMETHEUS, CHAMPION OF MAN!

Been struggling with the Spirituality Question myself lately. I like the idea of paganism and getting back to the roots of our ancestors but I just can't get over the fact that it feels LARPy to me. And I can't literally believe in a god so it would be mostly symbolic if anything.

For now my "religion" is an assortment of religious teachings and insights from Western philosophy.

Paganism is seen by some as the only native religion in Europe. Abrahamic religions are after all from the middle east.

Christianity had to adopt many of the traditions of the northern European religions, Easter, yule etc... to further its spread. so, when people are looking for a religion that speaks to them some forms of paganism fit there cultural background very well. Most pagans feel as if they have "come home"

The argument is that following a particular pagan belief makes one more in touch with that 'people' because pagan religions are unique to different tribes.
e.g. If I wanted to get more in touch with my English side I'd hailing Wodin

This of course is made irrelevant by Catholicism, which integrates both elements of European paganism, Roman tradition, and Christianity, making it a uniquely European religion.

>This of course is made irrelevant by Catholicism, which integrates both elements of European paganism, Roman tradition, and Christianity, making it a uniquely European religion.

I would argue that that is evidence of Christianity's insidiousness not a strength.

but what if they feel silly and spirtually hollow? it doesn't feel right to me at all

invisible god that may or may not actually do anything is easier for people to believe in than the pagan gods who are supposed to do a lot more micro managing

Are you suggesting culture should conform to religion instead of the other way around?

Is Calvinism redpilled?

Daily reminder that European culture has nothing to do with Christianity.

I'm a former atheist, so I understand the hollowness but in Astru for example a "soul" is many parts. a part lives on in the memories of others, part is [kind of] your mind and part goes of to to an afterlife.

Forget the afterlife and I see no superstition at all but still a spiritual outlook.

that makes more sense to me than one soul locked away until judgment day where it goes to 1 of 2 places FOREVER.

...

But it does
Easter is Saxon fertility festival
Christmas trees are from Polish or Baltic pagan traditions
Valentine's Day comes from a Roman celebration
The Bible in Europe was only allowed in the language of the Roman Empire for the longest time
The leader of the Church lived in the city at the center of the same former empire

Europe made Christianity into its own religion

that's not really how it works in Judaism or early Christianity

in early Christianity, from what I know, Hell is just a place for people without God.

I was interested in Judaism/Early Christianity, but the stigma it gets from millions of people who fear it makes me shy away from it, and I don't want to further "destroy" white identity, because thegoldenone seems to think those religions shouldn't be in a white countries, (apart from roman cathlocism because it united europe and has pagan influence)

Religion comes from culture explaining natural phenomena and setting out the "agreed" rules of the culture.

Religion is a crutch for people to get by on. Following any one of them on faith and the hope of a god intervening in your shit life is naive. So called "Pagan" religions tend to teach outright that the gods don't care about your daily life. They're not there to help you and they expect better of you than begging.

I identify as Asatru because it has been passed down through my family. It's teachings resonate with me. I believe that Odin and his kin guide me, but that my destiny and the hardships I face are my own to identify and overcome.

I have a very low opinion of Christians and other organized religious people because they have a tendency to believe that doing certain things will garner themselves favor with their deities. It's pathetic to believe yourself that important and it reflect poorly upon one's self when they believe that a higher power will solve their problems for them.

So what makes Christianity insidious for including various European traditions?

>Easter is a pagan holiday
>Christmas tree is a pagan tradition
>Valentines day is a pagan holiday
>The bible is a middle eastern book
>The church killed pagans

It was definitely a unifying force in Europe, but so was the pagan Roman empire.

Early Christianity moved far away from where it started to gain traction in Europe.

What was attracting you to it?

What's this guy's name again? I saw him on jewtube once and he made me laugh.

The "middle east" in the cultural sense didn't exist when the Bible was written. The early Catholic church probably had more in common with Egypt than Germany

watch Vargs' videos on the subject, it's a more natural religion to the European man. European man prefers the pluralistic concept of divinity in polytheism to the totalitarian nature of Middle Eastern ideologies. As Varg puts it, you'd be an idiot not to be an atheist if your only other option is Christianity, with all its contradictions.

early paganism was great they threw gays in bogs and exiled traitors to the tribe and acknowledge the ethnic core of the tribe through reincarnation, later paganism became just a poz fuckfest and it it's a good thing the christens destroyed it

Christianity is good in Europe BECAUSE it made an attempt to be a pan-European unifying force after Rome fell apart. Not the guy you're replying to but that Pan-Europeanism is what attracts me to Catholicism.

i have a friend thats pagan, i want to ask him about it but he is very self centered. like, its all about me kind. i dont want to hear a life story, again.

dude is a "muh mother earth" bullshit.

>Pan-Europeanism is what attracts me to Catholicism
>literally spread to all the shit-skins on purpose
Christianity is universalistic, it recognizes no differences between peoples or races or nations. European polytheism is connected to time and place, literally the forests and mountains of Europe.

being pagan is kind of like being a daedra worshiper in the elder scrolls, there's no actual love or community, and the pagan gods generally don't care that much about you or outright use you, at least that is what it feels like from what I know and read about paganism.

That's a stupid way of looking at things. Especially when you're browsing and posting on a violently anti-globalist image board.

Pontifex Maximum is the name of the Pope and the Romans had the exact same office; the papacy literally inherited the bureaucracy of the Roman empire.

go worship a tree, thor

"It seems to me that nothing would be more foolish than to re-establish the worship of Wotan. Our old mythology had ceased to be viable when Christianity implanted itself. Nothing dies unless it is moribund." - Adolf Hitler

Religion serves to give people a sense of purpose and belonging to a group, and for many people is a guideline of morality.

Whether Middle Eastern/Abrahamic, European/Paganistic, or whatever you like, just do what you like. Don't worry about our opinions. If you're doing this for yourself then you should follow your heart and interests. If you're doing it solely to build some kind of perception received by others, then don't even waste your time.

go worship your Jewish man who preaches we should love our enemies and quell our violent spirits

exactly this, with an aesthetic preference for medieval Europe and gnome mythologies

No. That's completely incorrect. Community is everything in most Pagan religions. Family and folk are paramount and sharing faith with the people you love is central to religious health.

While the gods are apathetic to your daily plight, they want to see their faithful succeed. Odin welcomes those who serve him with open arms when they die in his name. Glory awaits those who serve the gods, but only a fool subjects his whole being to their will.

Independence is vital to the survival of the "Pagan".

including various European traditions

It looks like it will take on any guise to gain a few more followers. Oh, its not taking off in some place? copy the the crap they do and say God is actuality pulling the strings, that should fool them!

Maby I'm just looking at Clinton and its leaving a mark.

idolator

Judaism and early Christianity are some of the most "original" texts, (if you don't count zorastorism or whatever it's called). So I feel that makes it more accurate to the truth, Judaism also portrays God as an abstract entity that is unknowable by us. Where as modern Christianity seem to anthromorphize itoo much. The problem is, most people seem to want to get rid of Judaism, and they think it wants to get rid of white identity. I don't want to make thegoldenone mad because he seems pretty cool

>European polytheism is connected to time and place, literally the forests and mountains of Europe
This is false if you're looking at the biggest single state in Europe at the time. Rome was an internationalist force. There were shrines to Greek gods in bumfuck Northern England

MY LORD, THE GOLDEN ONE, SOL INVICTUS, HE WHO BARES THE TORCH FOR MOTHER EVROPA

This.

Paganism died for a reason.

The "muh paganism" meme only comes from morons and trolls. The Golden One is not very redpilled at all. He's a good body builder with minor knowledge at best.

Well, the teaching is now the largest religion in the world. How's Thor doing in comparison?

The morality of it.

Paganism basically sets family and blood above all else.

This also.

Pagan gods are group/region specific. Your gods are your gods and no one else's, and someone else's gods aren't yours so you ignore them.

The cult of Kek welcomes all who thrive in the darkness and chaos.
Praise Kek

Still preaching his message of hunting animals and impregnating women.

I'll guive you an answer no one will tell you.

first read max stirner.

then understand than human have something we could call a soul. there is also a source of energy.

what you choose to do with that energy belong to you. you can put your faith in the catolic church if you want. but only the top hierarchic of the religion will get your energy.

or you could use your energy to create your first egregor see how that life goes with you and go further.

It's not supposed to be about self-improvement. Self-improvement is a Christian meme.

Look at literally most ancient religions around the world. reverence of natural gods, gods of thunder, gods of fertility, etc.People worshiped the gods and how human they were, accepting that a god was lustful. There is no sense of self-improvement, because most pagan religions teach purity and man's inherent goodness. Self improvement comes from the anxiety of being incomplete or "unprogressive"; imperfection and inconvenience are natural.

It's not better than those three. I used to be an Egyptian Pagan, now I'm a Christian. Egyptian gods, and every other god on the Pagan community, care nothing for you. They have no compassion like Christ and God have for Man. You ask them to do something they'll fucking do it, and that's that. They haven't had worship in so long they're fragile and dead.

They're cold and calculating, if you can do something for them, if you're a good vessel to carry out an act or to divine a revelation or two, they'll sit you the fuck down and make you do it, regardless of how well your soul can handle being exposed to their knowledge. They care nothing for you. Becoming Catholic is the best decision I've ever made. God wants only happiness for His children.

If you want to continue being ignored and failing to change society while falling into an intensifying ideological purity spiral, paganism is for you

that culture is what made europe civilization it is today, your pagans are doing really well in jungles of south america, africa, and various cannibal islands

Even as an atheist, not a pagan, I think it's obvious that "native" faiths speak more to the perceived intrinsic character of the european people.

For instance, as the thought of Japanese worshipping Allah seems perverse, so it is with Swedes worshipping Jehovah or Hindus in yarmulkes. Native "pagan" beliefs like shinto, the broad schools of hinduism, the old norse worship of Odin/Wotin/Wotan etc say something about the animals, the forests, the cliffs and valleys and coastlines of a place, while Abrahamism is by its nature universalizing and impersonal.

The major criticism to this is how European Christianity has been around in Europe for so long it's become part of the landscape just as much as the native faiths used to be.

This seems like good advice, thank you

Self-improvement we try to practice is getting in touch with nature.

Modern man has been separated from the pain and joy and violence and suffering and love and blood community that men have always had throughout the 200,000 years we have been around.

We are trying to learn how to be natural men and not isolated state-dependent robots.

You are separating early Christianity from modern Christianity why not Judaism

Also, didn't the earlyist texts have 2 gods? a female and female counterpart.
point being, going back far enough doesnt make it accurate

Also, to re-iterate on ,

Look at the Kekian religion. It's now a legitimate faith. It's of no coincidence that people in the alt-right are gaining faith in the many-god concept. Faith is indicative of culture. We're a culture that rejects progressivism. The only people here who don't believe in kekism are people who are still whipped by the legalistic and authoritarian values that the anxiety of progress creates. They're scared of not regulating one part of society, because it's in their self-interest to be selfish, capitalistic, authoritarian, liberal, etc.

Yes, those monotheists in Greece and Rome were not contributors in any way to western civilization......

>a male and female counterpart.
its late and i'm dyslic

>Kekian religion
you're retarded

Because mid summer eve faggot, its the best

I'm a Germanic reconstructionist. I focus on Anglo-Saxon heathenry, although there isn't much source material left from Anglo-Saxon mythology. I do it because it feels right and because I enjoy studying Germanic culture. Most people who take a recon approach identify with the name Heathen. These people are separate from the HURR DURR VIKINGS group that is "Asatru."

well that's bullshit. Honor and virtue were essential to the European polytheism before Christianity, that's why industry and thrift were considered essential values in Roman society.

We make the scary mistake of calling it "Self-improvement", because we still contextualize improvement as "Monetary gain" or "Strength". I think it's good to improve on one's self to be as close to nature as he possibly can, being one with his nature, being one with himself, being one with his folk and ancestors.

Its hollow till you get into esoteric ygdrassil.

If you are not white, kill yourself.

>monotheists
polytheists? they've done fuck all since Christ showed up.

so because it's popular it's better? Miley Cyrus is better than Gustav Mahler?

>well that's bullshit. Honor and virtue were essential to the European polytheism before Christianity
Honour and virtue were essential. I agree

> that's why industry and thrift were considered essential values in Roman society.
What does that have to do with honour and virtue?
Rome fell. What's your point?

I should also mention I find the worldview of the Germanic peoples to be a wonderful thing and try to live it the best I can in modern society.

Read "We Are Our Deeds" by Eric Wodening and "Culture of the Teutons" by Vilhelm Gronbech, the latter is available online as a free pdf but be warned it is a very dry read.

Dunning-Kruger: the post

southeastern asian in Islam is actually pretty common from what I know, a lot of them exist in central Asia in places like Kazakstan and it's surrounding areas, people just don't hear about it because there's not much dramatic conflict compared to the Middle East and it's much more rural than the rest of the world. Also, isn't the whole goal behind Islam is to unite everybody under the same culture? I'm not sure if it would be perverse or not.

nobody actually worships kek, that's a joke because the whole frog thing being in Egypt was a coincidence

>Dunning-Kruger
Literally what the fuck are you talking about?

Explain it plz

We have a real religion, jesus was sent just for us but our identity was stolen around 750 ad by the jews. We are the covenant people of the bible.

>nobody actually worships kek, that's a joke because the whole frog thing being in Egypt was a coincidence
There are literally people on here who believe in KEK. I'm not joking. I've lurked pol for years now, and I know sarcasm and irony when I see it.

>What does that have to do with honour and virtue?
you dont think hard work and saving for the future are honorable and virtuous?

>Rome fell
so did the British Empire, does that mean it was inherently bad or a failure?

See

I know nobody does this on reddit, where you're from, but try looking it up

The funny thing is Christianity in the west celebrates "easter" when in reality it's Passover. Which is the celebration of the Hebrew people reaching the promised land after exodus from egypt.

the argument is that the dates are closely similar

The Abrahamic religions are very anti-human, consistently deny life. They cannot function without the concept of sin, the idea that there is inherent badness in being human, that death is preferable to life (ie. the huge martyr complex these faiths have), they have a bizarre fetish for asceticism that relates back to worldly things being evil and other gnostic bullshit. They celebrate submission and meekness and prefer that you subsume yourself to a collective or authority in the Church or under an imam or rabbi or something.

Paganism, the modern kind at least, celebrates life a lot more; its spirituality overlaps with worldly things and it celebrates human nature and characteristics, there is a kind of vibrancy to it that I never felt with Christianity before. The mystery of the Trinity and the Holy Spirit never engaged me and pissed me off more than anything, especially when I began reading about how Early Christianity literally just made it up to distance themselves from other religions, appeal to existing structures and recruit more members. I remember in the eucharist the priest saying things like "it is our duty and our joy to repent, apologise and submit", which pissed me off as well. I'd rather a religion where I can engage with divinity in a manner that doesn't require my cringing at my own humanity, submission to a great single authority and subsuming of my will to another's.

The Greeks and Romans literally built western civilization. If Christianity was so civilizing, why does it not civilize all the darkies around the world that love Jesus so much?

Fell for Christian Identitiy

...

>Golden

Why is he not redpilled?

Hail the Aesir, Vanir, and Wights!

Hail the ancestors!

Hail the folk!

Reminder: Asatru is not a religion, it is what we are.

...

Literally nothing would please pol more than to worship Allah.

It has everything you want

not really.

I wish i could tell you the names of the religions but its literally the entire point of alot of eastern religions some that date before Christianity. enlightment=self-improvement

>get into Zoroastrianism
>love it
>consider actually converting
>find out you cannot convert to it

FUUUUG
Guess I'm a lame Deist

>Christianity is world-denying, like I read in that article!

Fucking newfags

Tell me about Frith, tell me about Wyrd and Orlog and how they are different. Nobody who I have met who called themselves "Asatruar" have ever been able to.

Sure there's self improvement. Odin constantly seeks new knowledge,l and warriors train daily in Valhalla, for example. You're supposed to use the gods to strive toward the great examples of various virtues while recognizing the faults that many have yet to escape.

Op, Euro paganism wants you to be good and honest to your own and be a fighter. I'm not sure about the charge of spiritual hollowness. There are a million and one ideas about spirits floating around in the morning European lore, and little dogma. You have to make your own connections. This is how it worked back then. Religion (and loyalty, the root of politics) went from the individual, out to the family, out to the tribe, and the nation in times of necessity (ex. Gallic war, nowadays nations are very strong so the necessity seems to be constant at the moment). Also, in a few exceptional moments, the race itself has basically united despite tribal differences, such as when the Huns or Mongols or Turks came.

Hope this helps. I am looking to get back into making the heathenry general threads

>thumbnailfag
One of the best posters I've seen in months

So, instead of using Jesus to sneer at others, you're using Odin to sneer at others.

Just goes to show you, neckbeardism is more universal than religion.

And Pagan societies were based more on the harvest, and nature, because that's what allowed them to survive. Community was lower on the list than food, water, and shelter. "Community" existed as a tribe mentality, and only really mattered when another tribe tried to take your food.

If Odin existed (he didn't), he'd think you were a jerk, too, for acting like a pansy and sneering like a neckbeard on Sup Forums instead of raping and pillaging and dying like a warrior.

It isn't because it is now an "Eastern Faith"
>Western philosophy
Good man.
Their true home is Christianity.
It was Christianity that went toe to toe with paganism, lived beside it, saw it fall.
Paganism, European paganism, survives today only in Christianity, the Harvest festivals, Yule, Easter, all of these in Christianity with varying degrees of Christian significance.
Christianity is the only religion to "preserve" other religions while at the same time overtaking them.
Christianity is the true world religion because it differ in that it can become European Christianity, Arabic Christianity, Oriental (Nestorian) Christianity and still retain its central message. It's the religion of true diversity.
But it's not attempting to fool them. It was bringing them into the fold without destroying their culture or wiping out the non-theological parts of their religion,
read some Chesterton. Christianity to the pagans seemed like the fulfillment of their religions, the pagan religions of Europe vaguely alluded to some dying god that would save mankind from something someday. Sounds like Christianity fit the bill.
>le spook man
Absolutely /his/

If you think honour is "gain" or "work", then you're out of touch with classical society.

I go fishing. In one sense, I don't have honour as a fisherman, because I feel inept at fishing (I've only been going for 3 years). I know some old guys, some of wish are still fishing, and I can call them "Fisherman" because that is the level of their honour; I can also call the old men who haven't fished for years "fisherman", because they still have the honour of a fisherman. It's a communicative value that society places on them.

If you work hard, that's not the same as being a "hard worker".

Politics, likewise, is a hard thing to deal in honour. In Troy, Agamemnon wanted Achilles to fight the Trojans, but Achilles didn't want to fight on behalf of Agamemnon; he wanted the honour of being a hero himself. The story is very telling of the way Agamemnon treated his men; he was politician, having honour because of status. Achilles didn't want to fight as one of Agamemnon's soldiers, because that would imply he was beneath Agamemnon.

When you put values like law or money above what honour really is, they become a substitute for honour; law become a substitute for morals. It leads to moral decay and distrust.

>so did the British Empire, does that mean it was inherently bad or a failure?
They became a mercantile state near the end of the empire; they placed the value of money over the value of loyalty. It was inherently bad.

materialism is bad, my friend also said that pagan religions are materialistic

Chris Chan is ODIN

I don't know, I just think modern Christianity, especially roman cathloc, absorbed too much pagan in it. I don't feel like I identify toward anything related to pagan, even though I'm white. I want to love God and I don't feel like he is associated with anything in European Paganism. I will probably read more religious texts

> the pagan religions of Europe vaguely alluded to some dying god that would save mankind from something someday

Source for any Germanic peoples that believed this?

I know what it is.. I just want you to explain how you mean..

Okay.. Look at shintoism, then. Not about self-improvement, but about nature. Taoism; no self improvement, just being pure with nature.
I could keep going..
Even the sumerian gods were originally this way. Norse and Greek paganism were this way.

Societies that became lawful and self-interested for "improvement" were doomed to fail. Such civilizations spawned religions which were indicative of that culture; the Abrahamic faiths, for example, believe in cold inhumane gods that only brought order to chaos.

in that case, improvement is made for fear of war and struggle; that's the nature I'm talking about. When we have no need for war, there is no need to train, thus no need to improve. Improving the man's body has the implication that the man is anxious about health or survival, or maybe even afraid of losing value as sexual partner. Those are legitimate reasons to improve. But overall, I don't think nature-religions teach improvement.