Let's Settle This: "Roz/Rahz" or "Raysh?"

Okay, so we all know the story. "Rā's al Ghūl" is Arabic for "Head of the Demon." Denny O'Neil, the creator of the character, says that the correct pronunciation of "Ra's" is "Raysh," as this is what his daughter, who was taking an Arabic class or something at the time, told him was the correct pronunciation. Seeing as O'Neil is the creator of the character, there is an argument for taking his word as definitive, and a couple adaptations of the character, such as the DCAU and Arkham games, have followed this.

However, native Arabic speakers will tell you that the correct pronunciation of "Ra's" is actually closer to "Roz" or "Rahz," just as many English speakers would intuitively read the word (I've had one Arabic speaker tell me that "Raysh" is closer to their word for "feather"). This is also the pronunciation used in the Christopher Nolan Batman films.

So, Denny O'Neil, the creator of the character, has told us that the name is "Raysh," so one may argue that, regardless of the correct real-world pronunciation of the term, the authority of the author trumps all, so "Raysh" is correct for this character. Maybe Ra's likes to pronounce his name that way. Maybe the Arabic language of the DCAU is not identical to the Arabic language of the real-world.

However, even if authorial intent trumps all, O'Neil's intent was to have the correct pronunciation. Had he known "Rahz" was correct, he would have said the correct pronunciation is "Rahz."

Even though I'm a DCAU-fag, put my vote down for "Rahz." It just makes the most sense to me.

What say Sup Forums?

Concentrated autism.

Ross

Isn't Raysh the Hebrew pronunciation or something?

I used to say roz, but if the creator of the character says it's Raysh then that's what it is.

kind of
it's more complicated than that but yeah basically comes from asking professors who are more familiar with hebrew how to pronounce an arabic word

Racer cool

I liked how Arrow handled it. Americans pronounce it Roz while the LoS called him Raysh.

So it's like a Caesar/K-eye-zar

If the original intent was to use the correct pronunciation then I would say Rahz.

Arrow of all things leading the fucking charge

I could swear this originated from a Sup Forums thread were an user thought this was his name as a kid.

Maybe I'm misremembering. Does anybody have this thread?

I didn't realize this was how the show did it (never really bothered to watch any live-action cape shows), but I've always thought it would be cool if different people pronounced his name different ways.

I mean, he's been alive for centuries, across many nations, and dialects have probably shifted a lot over that time. There would probably be a few different ways to say his name.

>I could swear this originated from a Sup Forums thread were an user thought this was his name as a kid.

Oh wait, I'm dumb. It's what Bizarro called Ra's in Trinity.

Raysh sounds the best to an English speaker. Can easily be explained away by saying he is the last survivor of some obscure tribe that spoke a now extinct semitic language.

A bigger problem is that his name literally means "head". This was fine in the 80s and 90s, but as our Middle Eastern population grows it's going to become increasingly embarrassing for a supposedly threatening villain who goes by Head. Yeah, it makes more sense in context, but names are like jokes in that you shouldn't have to explain them.

Most writers say "Raysh", so that's what I go to as canon. Plus, I personally prefer how it rolls off the tongue.

Its fucking "Raysh" and I don't care what anyone says.

>Raysh sounds the best to an English speaker.
Doubt.

I wonder when the pronunciation of Caesar became what it is today. I don't even know which language perverted it from the original Latin, as English didn't even exist until like the 6th century.

I hear virtually everyone say SEE-zur, but the Latin is clearly KAI-sar.

>A bigger problem is that his name literally means "head"

I've never really seen it as his first name being "Ra's," and his last name being "al Ghul." It's not like that's his birthname, anyway. His birth name has been lost to the ages. He just goes by the title he's created for himself, "Ra's al Ghul."

The only reason people call him "Ra's" is because it's easier than saying "Ra's al Ghul" every time you mention him. But it's different than, like, calling somebody by their first name or something.

Kinda like how "Deathstroke" isn't the first name of "Deathstroke the Terminator." Shortening it to "Deathstroke" isn't like calling him by his first name.

I liken it to the mafia title Capo di Tutti Capi, where you could call them Capo and it would just mean Boss, so calling someone Head could have a similar connotation.

Roz feels the best on my tongue, but Raysh is supposedly correct. I used to try to pronounce the apostrophe with Rah-ess, but that is demonstrably the worst version

>WE WERE ON A BREAK, DETECTIVE

Ras, with an 's'.

Head, body part = Ras
Head, leader = Raees

Raysh. Always Raysh.

Looks like Sup Forums is pretty evenly split between Raysh and Raz/Rass/Roz/Rahz/ whatever.

It's Raz/Roz. Raysh is the bastardized English pronunciation because Anglos have this weird complex about taking something that is normally pronounced more or less the same way it is written and raping it to death so the pronunciation is something that does not logically follow from what is written.

Same thing with Giza being referred to as "Gaiza" because reasons.

yea i get ray-ees and raazh from google translate as possible translations, seems like theres ways that get close to both pronunciations

Ra alif sa makes alot more sense than Ra ya alif shin

I like to just think that he's old enough that language shifted the pronunciation around him and he still uses the old way.

The name pun only works if you pronounce it Raysh. Raysh-Al Guhl = Racial Ghoul.

The what now.

You know Racer Cool was in the actual comics right

I really don't care what the "correct" pronunciation is supposed to be. I grew up with "Raysh" in TAS, O'Neil says it's "Raysh." So that's what it'll always be to me.

Isn't Ra's al Ghul his title?

How about we all just agree to agree that Arabic is an archaic shithole language that hurts the ears and doesn't even have proper punctuation.
*gargles angrily in your direction and explodes*

>He said while writing in English

>the most complex and robust language that ever existed
no language can describe intricate details better than english

Yeah. People always forget that his organization is not the League of Shadows or whatever. His group is called the Demon and he is the Demon's Head.

That is an old, old meme.