Overall, was manga a positive influence on Western comics?

Overall, was manga a positive influence on Western comics?

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Yes in terms of panel composition and that whole Katsuhiro Otomo style "cinematic framing" but I'd say no overall as most anime influenced western art styles are pretty horrible.

Yes.
I mean, we had to put up with a lot of half-baked shit imitating le popular manga stuff for about fifteen years, but the current batch of artists who have actually managed to adapt the style into something that works deliver solid results.
It also positively expanded the range of stories people tackle in comics.

Just talking about the Euro market here tho.

Yes

And what about the storytelling?

Storytelling isn't all that different between Japan and the rest of the world when it comes to comics. Any differences in story you may find better in one form of comics than another would be viewed in complete subjectivity.

There's a lot of cultural differences and differences in genres and settings and subject matter.

Yes, but it has an impact on the specific plot, the general storytelling devices are pretty similar.

Manga is substantially different from Western comics just as anime is substantially different from Western animation.

Because of the plot, distribution and it being aimed for casual audiences, not because of the storytelling devices it uses.

I had that book.

Just leaving this here.

I feel like westerners mostly took the superficial style and genre stuff from manga and anime, but none of the actual important behind the scenes production stuff (authors who are both the writer and artist, the different production pipelines/techniques/financial deals that allow anime to be as varied and as quantitive as they are)

>the different production pipelines/techniques/financial deals that allow anime to be as varied and as quantitive as they are
Sound interesting. Is there a book I can read in English about how the anime industry works and (especially) how it compares to its American and European counterparts?

Who does these things? How deluded are they to think they can author drawing guides? Why do editorials willingly publish a "manual" that was clearly drawn by a preteen girl during recess? Who looks at these covers and then buys them thinking they are even worth the paper they are printed on? Fuck, even by only having watched the most 90's anime possible like Sailor Moon or Saber Marionette would be enough to know this shit is a massive joke.

You tell me

yes it made the western audience realize that western comics are fucking awful both in art and writing

b-but muh samefag

Yes. Comics in the 80's & early 90's were made by fucking weebs. The pandering trash didn't hit until later and by that point western comics had gone to hell anyway.

Those How to Draw books were fucking huge in the late 90s and early 2000s.

I am talking about the storytelling too, and there is a lot of manga that is not aimed at general audiences.

Sakugablog has a lot of insight into the industry.

blog.sakugabooru.com/tag/anime-industry/

Watching Shirobako also gives you a basic idea of how everything works (in the second half). But I'm not aware of there being any singular source on how it all works let alone how it works compared to the West.

I know, and i can't wrap my head around it. Nothing in this cover makes me think anyone would go "Yeah, this will teach me to draw Sailor Venus perfectly"

there was that one time those Fred Perry How to Draw Manga books were everywhere and they were pretty bad, both in art and in tutorial

It was only a few years ago did I learn he drew porn, still terrible but that one with Arcee was good

shit, I meant to type "sameface". that was stupid.

>Sakugablog
>Shirobako
Thanks, user!

I've seen "how to draw manga" books with bad art, but this is on another level, i'm still not convinced its not shopped

Pre-internet it was hard to find information and these books were easier to happen across than proper how-to books.

I still have this book put away a long with my terrible beckket dragon ball magazines. I used to have the original run of the USA shonen jump too but I got too embarrassed one day in like 2007 and tossed them all.

Its because the artist was 16 years old. Not sure why they let a 16 year old publisher a book like this, but I guess all the adults who looked at it either thought it looked good or didn't care.

To give her credit though, her book did at least teach how to make your own characters, poses, etc, while 99% of the other books I saw just taught you to copy specific pictures. Christopher Hart was an adult and made books that didn't teach you shit (and many of them)

I have that book. My family is poor :/

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That looks pretty useless for art gains.

>Just trace what you see in step 1

>authors who are both the writer and artist
This is extremely common outside of American direct-market floppies, a tiny niche of the medium.

if it's the reason stuff like W.I.T.C.H. gets republished by a manga imprint then yes

It hasnt had much imoact on north american comics besides the underground market. I europe it is a very different case.

Europe is the most experimental are for comics and it wasn't afraid of taking influence from anywhere. Manga had a big impact on euro comics. Ghost in The Shell really had a guge inpact there and we are still seeing sci fi influence from that, like Skydoll.

They sold these at Scholastic book fairs.

I got the sequel to this one. It's slightly better, but still fucking awful.

Kinda helped, though. Basically got an early start on Loomis through a cracked mirror. The other how to draw books of the time were actually worse for teaching fundamentals, if you can believe it.

i dont understand how this guy can pump out so much garbage, he's actually a pretty competent artist and has some great how-to books

My assumption has always been, and will forever remain, that he didn't want to do those stupid bullshit Chinese cartoons but the publisher virtually forced him to.
And so, "If you do a job badly enough, you won't be asked to do it again".

He has definitely gotten better, but I'm suspicious when he draws good looking anatomy because he has a YouTube channel where his anatomy is fucked. youtu.be/B1LFG3eu6j4

He has a terrible case of symbol drawing,even in his guidelines.

Oh and also really bad line confidence. I just don't understand how someone can be so mediocre after all these years of writing books. You typically learn a lot of stuff yourself when teaching a subject.

yeah I was noticing his line movements are strangely stiff for someone with his expansive published works

If anything, it is actual direct competition to the Big 2 and shows that audiences actually will read shit other than capes fighting capes in a world of neverending status quo.

Yes, the art style has had influence here and there but I'd say mostly in terms of writing our comics have gotten way better because of manga. The really good American writers to crop up after the British Invasion definitely upped the ante after they looked at Urasawa, Death Note, etc.

Is just that he "'doesn't care'' about animus.

meanwhile, look at Madoc and Salvamakoto

In a way that it shows that you can have a successful comic series that is more leaning slice of life or fantasy that can actually edge towards mainstream. Most non cape comics were still very niche and did not gain a lot of attention, outside of a very small few.

The real problem came from a lot of people who wanted to imitate manga but had no clue why it was successful among readers. They assumed give everyone huge eyes and spiky hair, have random chibi scenes all the time, emote with the same standard 5 anime expressions, and add nosebleeds. But for everything else keep it the same as they always have. They failed to see that people were into things like teenage heroes actually looking like teenagers and not just the same 30-something that everyone else happens to be, highschool adventures, fantasy that can take a direction apart from the same old D&D inspired trope, and ordinary life stories. And comic readers actually like and read it.

Grow the fuck up and learn to draw manga like the master.

Crilley lived and breathed that good old Nippon lifestyle to understand the nuance and delicacy of the style.

Didn't know Crilley did a how to draw book. Akiko was a comic I have fond memories, it's sad how everything from the 90s that wasn't Vertigo is forgotten now.

Crilley is an overall competent artist, but his personal manga stuff is really generic. It isn't really good 'manga' as much as it's a very good Western take on a roughly 90's early 2000s manga style. It's still pretty soulless looking.

It taught western artists how not 2 anatomy, if nothing else

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How to draw Manga books were a dime a dozen back in the late 90s to mid 00's. Mostly done by hacks, or people just looking to cash in on the growing fad/craze of the day.

And the people buying them didn't care, since they were 14 year olds who watched DBZ and Sailor Moon, and posted their Inu Yasha OCs on Deviant art that they drew on Tuesday while they were bored in 9th grade English and had high hopes of being the next Mangaka one day.

Last one I got.

so....yes?

Was this bait irl or did he actually believe that was ok?

This guy should not be allowed near a pencil ever again.

TIL how to draw dad eyes
Thanks Christopher Hart

Skydoll is all right.

Oh my i gave that book away last year to a flea market, not the best book to start drawing overall but a decent book for 15 year old me wanting to learn manga a bit. When you start drawing, motivation is vital and that book was giving away a good spark of that

A lot of his mango art is pretty stiff, I remember in one of his q&a videos he answered a question on about what his biggest flaws were or something like that he admitted his art was way too stiff and lacked fluidity.

Art's done by genuine nips

I think Crilley's manga art is just innocuous and "safe" in that its not really technically bad, but he really does almost nothing with it to make it unique or stand out at all. Its just by-the-numbers enough to appeal to what seems to be some sort of teenage audience and it achieves that well enough.

The latter.

It's the same mentality Christopher Hart had for all his books, Manga or otherwise.

30 year gap, user. 40 year old execs greenlight shit they remember from being teenagers and children. It took 30 years for post-silver age capeshit to get popular. We’re just now getting 90’s anime looked at seriously.

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Skydoll is one of those comics heavily influenced by manga that is done right.

>teenage heroes actually looking like teenagers and not just the same 30-something that everyone else happens to be

You have no idea how weird this was in comics. There was nothing distinguishing teens from every other hero outside of the narration just telling you they are younger.

Pic related are a bunch of 15 year olds. With Speedball labeled as the scrawny toothpick of the team.

>that Kamen Rider in the background of the second panel
Why don’t more Western shows rip off/homage Kamen Rider? Kids love that shit.

Because Power Rangers can be consider an equalvalient to KR.

That’s not right though, unless you’re one of those “all toku is the same” types. I can’t really think of a “lone hero fights army of monsters” type of show that doesn’t devolve into team ups.

Serenity was created as a result of it, so yes.

Fucking shit my sides

That's Animoo not Mango.

>lone hero fights army of monsters
This hero is now lone and fighting army of monsters (inside his head).

Not really. To most people, it just became another thing to appropriate and recontextualize surface-level shit from without context or nuance. The odd gem that actually tries to go beyond simple stylization and dated cliches are few and far between.

>Not posting our lord and savior Bill Connolly

youtube.com/watch?v=42rPdnzxARc
youtube.com/watch?v=7jgGzcDL_zw
youtube.com/watch?v=YjJb6DMlJ1Y

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>Ya ever sittin' around on the weekend and ya say, boy I wish I could draw a really good muscle elf ?

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>that mouth

>:D pow pow I has a gun

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that's what your ugly weeb shit looks like to someoe not obsessed with crepy asians scrawling there fetishes on paper.

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The one with just his head is killing me

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>The real problem came from a lot of people who wanted to imitate manga but had no clue why it was successful among readers.
>They assumed give everyone huge eyes and spiky hair, have random chibi scenes all the time, emote with the same standard 5 anime expressions, and add nosebleeds.
You just described RWBY user.

What the fuck happened here

If I ever saw an American name on "how to manga" I'd put it down right away.

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Does his arm hurt or something?